witesoxfan

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Aug 17, 2006 -> 10:50 PM) I know that farm system basically 'developed' Liriano and Matt Cain, but there isn't a whole lot of 'prospects' in that organization. They're in some trouble as the post-Bonds era begins next year. Post-Bonds is going to be rough in the Bay Area, atleast for the Giants. I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to bring a new GM in to just start completely clean. They have to have some type of raw potential though. They have developed a friggin ton of arms in the past 10 years, so there almost has to be something.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 17, 2006 -> 12:30 PM) Your actually correct that their bullpen has been very good. Problem is, their starting rotation falloff and injuries have canceled out what the bullpen is doing, and overall that offense still sucks. They just aren't good enough to do anything come October in the AL, unless Harden is healthy, which is like saying unless Wood and Prior are healthy. I still think they are a threat in the playoffs, with or without Harden. Zito and Haren are both good starters, and Blanton and Loaiza can both be solid from time to time. If they can get to even the 6th in the playoffs with a lead, they have to feel pretty comfortable. The problem is the offense, but if it gets hot, they can win it, just like the Sox did last year. The talent is most definately there in my mind. Also, Rich Harden is becoming a joke. I don't even consider him when I think about Oakland...he's just completely fallen off the radar. He is the next Wood or Prior. Everyone talks about how good he'll be if he's healthy, but the problem of course is that he's not healthy at all.

QUOTE(chitownsportsfan @ Aug 17, 2006 -> 10:38 PM) Pods is the classic "track athlete on a baseball diamond". He really has no baseball skills. He's fast and can slap some singles. He has no baseball intuition both on defense and at the plate. Hasn't shown anything on the bases this year other than incompetance either. And you hope you can convince a pisspoor GM like Brian Sabean that he is still a spark and is still a good ballplayer, and maybe get an arm or two out of him.

I don't think you'll ever see an Ozzie Guillen managed team have a slow leadoff hitter. The slowest you'll ever see were in the past IMO(Rowand and TIMO). As much as it drives me crazy and the rest of us too, I think you'll see KW follow Ozzie's philosophy and go for a mediocre OBP and speed guy, such as a Podsednik, but perhaps on a much better scale, ala a Carl Crawford type(that would be my pipedream right there). Not entirely sure how possible Crawford is, but he would be about the ideal guy for the offense. One thing I think I would guarantee is that Pods is gone.

QUOTE(JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Aug 17, 2006 -> 05:00 PM) what did i say just have a little faith and all is well now lets go take the series against the twins and we will be on track going into detroit for the big showdown next week Just curious...all is well? We lost a game in the division and split a series with the worst team in the American League. Not sure how all is well.

The Blue Jays have always been the Red Sox and Yankees b****. Anyone remember when Toronto traded Mondesi to New York, picked up basically everything in his contract, and only got Scott Wiggins back?

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Aug 15, 2006 -> 10:22 AM) This is the first year Beane can take any credit.... all those other playoff teams were thanks to having 3 aces on your pitching staff he never drafted. Or he drafted all of them, but you were close courtesy Wiki Tim Hudson - 6th round, '97 Mark Mulder - 1st round, '98 Barry Zito - 1st round, '99 Sooooooo he can take credit for everything the A's have done in the past 10 years. QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 15, 2006 -> 11:51 AM) Beane builds his teams around startin pitching, which is smart. He also values OBP a ton so that he can have cheap offensive players, which isn't too dumb considering his payroll. The reason Beane's teams tend to and will continue to have problems in the postseason is the lack of importance he puts on a strong bullpen and his teams usual lack of slugging percentage. His offense can get people on, but the lack of power won't get them in. They blew their chance at a title in the early 2000's when they had the great pitching AND great power in their prime, but their bullpen was SO bad back then, it was just killer. He has changed that, as seen by the last two years. A's bullpen - 3.56 ERA, 1.33 WHIP Calero - 47 IP, 1.17 WHIP, 2.87 ERA Duchscherer - 38.1 IP, 1.20 WHIP, 3.05 ERA Street - 57.1 IP, 0.94 WHIP, 2.98 ERA Along with Halsey, Gaudin, Flores, and Saarloos who have all been solid but not spectacular(most of mid 3 ERAs and WHIPs in the 1.3+ range). His offense this year, on paper, has a little better slugging percentage as a team, but Chavez has been mediocre, Bradley's been hurt, Kotsay and Kendall have both been so-so, Swisher's been cold the past few weeks, Crosby flat out sucks, and Thomas was cold to start the year. If that offense could perform anything up to its capabilities, it would be really solid. Regardless, all in all, they are a very scary team, even come postseason time where the A's have been horrible.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Aug 15, 2006 -> 01:13 PM) Thank you. That's pretty precise. Maybe a 4.50 ERA is hoping for too much now. Nah. A 4.25 ERA or a 4.00 ERA would be asking too much. Garland pitches well enough, and he has been for about the last two months, and he can put up 3.20 ERAs over a stretch of time pretty easily.

QUOTE(rangercal @ Aug 14, 2006 -> 02:08 AM) I wonder If Cardinal fans would say Torre is overrated. Cardinal W-L records since 91 (Torres first year with the cards) Year League Record Finish Manager 2005 NL Cent 100-62 (.617) DIV 1 Tony LaRussa 2004 NL Cent 105-57 (.648) NL 1 Tony LaRussa 2003 NL Cent 85-77 (.525) 3 Tony LaRussa 2002 NL Cent 97-65 (.599) DIV 1 Tony LaRussa 2001 NL Cent 93-69 (.574) WC 2 Tony LaRussa 2000 NL Cent 95-67 (.586) DIV 1 Tony LaRussa 1999 NL Cent 75-86 (.466) 4 Tony LaRussa 1998 NL Cent 83-79 (.512) 3 Tony LaRussa 1997 NL Cent 73-89 (.451) 4 Tony LaRussa 1996 NL Cent 88-74 (.543) DIV 1 Tony LaRussa 1995 NL Cent 62-81 (.434) 4 Joe Torre and Mike Jorgensen 1994 NL Cent 53-61 (.465) 3 Joe Torre 1993 NL East 87-75 (.537) 3 Joe Torre 1992 NL East 83-79 (.512) 3 Joe Torre 1991 NL East 84-78 (.519) 2 Joe Torre Name me one manager who could handle the heat of the New York media better than Joe Torre, managing today. That media has ruined CAREERS of players, and yet, even with an unfathomable payroll, still keeps his players cool and playing well Cardinals fans won't agree, but they're probably a bit jealous of some rings that he owns that they didn't get, albeit with a much smaller payroll. Of course, he really hasn't won a World Series since Steinbrenner started going crazy...they always led the majors in payroll, but I don't think they broke $100 million until like 2000 or 2001. Not a reason as to why he's still underrated to this day, but it's true. Regardless, I believe we accomplished the goal of this thread, and you showed me up pretty well. I still think Torre's a bit underrated, but I'll name you two more, though both have been mentioned(I think just once though). They're not the most underrated, but I'll throw them out there for the hell of it...Clint Hurdle and Ozzie Guillen

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Aug 14, 2006 -> 11:13 PM) Well let's see here...because he isn't Derek Jeter and he isn't Shrek... He's not Ernie Young either. You wanna talk about underrated

QUOTE(shoota @ Aug 14, 2006 -> 03:55 PM) I wouldn't call reducing a 10-game lead to 5.5-game lead a "collapse." In one f***ing week? Come on man It's not a complete collapse, but it's getting there

QUOTE(chiguy79 @ Aug 14, 2006 -> 01:04 PM) Interestingly, the Sox, Tigers and Twins have very similar strength of schedule remaining, the Yankees have the easiest schedule and the red sox have the hardest. The # of road games we have worries me, makes it even more important to finish off this home stand strong, the west coast road trip is also coming up. The A's also have a much easier schedule than the Angels, assuming the Yankees and A's win their divisions I would almost rather win the WC and play the yankees than dealing with Oakland...I guess it is a pick your poison scenario, of course if our pitching comes into form we can beat anyone. It would be nice to get a cushion over Boston/Min for the WC.. I'm going to go ahead and say that the Tigers schedule is easier than the White Sox and Twins due to the way they end it. The Sox and Twins matchup against each other, whereas Detroit gets Kansas City. While it is true that Cleveland died in KC, and that Detroit has a series in KC in the second to last weekend of the year, they are still the Royals.

The previous CBA ended in August of 2002, and at the time of discussions of a new CBA, there was no guarantee that there would be compensation for any players ever. As is, it's still here, and the Durham for Adkins deal looks pretty bad, but at this point in time, I don't give a flying Fukuoka

QUOTE(rangercal @ Aug 13, 2006 -> 07:50 PM) Don't see how you can use the payroll argument in defense to how good Beane is for lacking one. But dismiss it when saying how good Torre is. Try again. What's so hard to understand about Beane working wonders with a limited payroll, while Joe Torre has gotten the Yankees to the playoffs 11 straight years, with a very good shot at 12 this year, albeit with a huge payroll he has absolutely no control over? Joe Torre doesn't control the Yankee payroll, nor does he control which players are brought in at what price. He undoubtedly has a very large say in who or what they bring in, but that's about it. The fact of the matter is he's taken the Yankees to the playoffs every year for a over decade, and only one other manager since mass expansion has done that. I don't care how much money you spend, if you are the manager of a team with as many egos and old pitchers as the Yankees, and you take your team to the playoffs 12 straight years, you are damn good, and I don't think he gets nearly the credit he deserves. On the flip side, Beane doesn't control how large his payroll is, but he DOES, by and large, control how it is spent. Since like friggin everyone read or knows about Moneyball, people know Beane's "strategy" on the game...yet he keeps on winning and building talent. He gets anywhere from $45-55 million to spend on his team, but only about one other team in the majors has sustained any level of success with such small payroll, and Oakland's been better than Minnesota longer...Oakland's won 87 games or more in 7 straight seasons, whereas Minnesota was a 90-win team for 3 straight years, and on the ends of that streak were mid-80s win totals. So, yes, I can dismiss the payroll for Torre but bring it up for Beane and say that they are both underrated.

I'm gonna be a homer and say... 1. 2005 White Sox everything else is irrelevant

I BTW, fathom...Mac's career GO/AO ratio is 2.42.

The Tigers seem to be learning very quickly who the best team in the majors is.

Overrated... Player: Torii Hunter. Not a doubt in my mind. I've mentioned on here like friggin 100 times about how bad he is offensively, and even though he is still amazing defensively, he's a bit softer now a days and definately gets injured a bit more. Manager: Bruce Bochy. Not necessarily media wise, but for a guy that's been in San Diego for like 10+ years, he hasn't brought them much other than a playoff birth or two and a World Series appearance where they got swept. His team this year has quite a bit of talent, and they are a mediocre ballclub. GM: Theo Epstein. He's got a $150 million payroll, yet his rotation is mediocre, his bullpen is a little above average, and his offense is built entirely around two hitters. Without Manny or Ortiz, the Red Sox offense is nothing. Underrated... Player: Justin Morneau. If Jim can give lovin to Rally Crede, I'll give lovin to the Canuck. Best 1Bman in the AL. Manager: Joe Torre. I don't know understand how people can say he's overrated at all. For 12 straight years(assuming they make it this year), the Yankees will have been in the playoffs. I don't care that the Yankees have a $200 million payroll...Torre doesn't control that at all. I don't care that they have talent up the arse...he doesn't control that either. However, the man's job almost never seems to be safe, as rumors fly about his job security. He also has more egos in his clubhouse than a celebrity golf tournament, yet he keeps everyone in check and keeps everyone happy and producing. He can keep his team playing well through injuries and through the media storm that is New York. He seems to know when to take a pitcher out, when to leave him in, who to call in from the bullpen, who to have pinch hit, when to steal, and when to let Mo get a 2 inning save. In my mind, he's the best manager in the AL, and top 2 in the majors(no idea who I'd say is better between he and Cox). GM: Billy Beane. Big time supporter, obviously, but I don't understand why people think he's overrated. He isn't the god the media sometimes makes him out to be, but he is a top 3-5 GM int he game. Hell, a book was written about him and his philosophy on how to build a team, everyone read it, and yet he is still always one step ahead of the entire baseball world, and has his team loaded with talent and competing with a $45 million payroll(or so). That's just awesome.

Like it's been said, root for the Sox...if they don't win, it doesn't matter wtf Boston or Detroit do. That said, I agree with fathom in hoping for a sweep. I'd prefer it be Boston, but either way, a sweep either gives you two close races, or a pretty sizeable lead(unless of course Minnesota sweeps whoever the hell they're playing) along with another overcomeable deficit.

Also...we've won 3 straight and all, and we've actually looked good, so I'm not trying to ruin a buzz here or anything...but when.in.the.hell do you try something different against lefties? That's two early 40s lefties in a row that have come into Chicago and shut the offense down, and we continue to struggle against lefties. Does Ozzie not know how freakin pisspoor the top of the lineup is against lefties? I know he has faith in his guys and it's "working"...but it's not working, and blind faith does not win games, hitting, defending, and pitching well win games. It's atleast worth a shot. Try it one time, move JD to 3 and Thome to 5, just for s***s and giggles. Please, Oz, I beg you.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Aug 12, 2006 -> 03:11 PM) Boston's playing like s*** right now, and Kansas City always plays us well. This ain't no picnic, friends. I don't think I'd say Boston's playing like s***. Recently, as of the middle of the week, they were playing piss-poor, seeing as how they were swept by KC. A 9-2 win last night, plus coming back from a 7-3 deficit today and tying the game seems pretty big to me. If I'm thinking right, the matchups are Bonderman-Schilling, Robertson-Beckett, and Verlander-Wells...though that may be wrong. Also, unless this team just suddenly hits a wall, it's 3 of 4 from KC at the minimum. KC's playing with a little fire, but fire is usually put out with more fire and a little talent.

QUOTE(Bonderman38 @ Aug 12, 2006 -> 03:20 PM) You can't say these games matter to the Tigers more than the Sox. The Sox came out on top, kudos to them, no problem. Tigers win tomorrow, 7.5 up, lose, still 5.5 which is a decent lead. If the Sox got swept it would've been much harder for them to win the division. I'm not saying that just because "the tides are turning" And if the Sox had been swept, they still have the Wild Card, so it's not really a big series at all.

QUOTE(SEALgep @ Aug 12, 2006 -> 10:50 AM) And its just that easy... Eric Cooper is the only umpire's name I know, and I've known it for a few years now. He's the worst umpire in baseball. I would say he has something against the Sox, except for the fact that he pretty much always sucks. Anyone recall Crede's homerun in Baltimore in 03 that was 10 ft fair? No worries, Cooper didn't see it either... Who doesn't recall Crede's non-homer? It was the call of the night on Sportscenter. I also recall us going on a pretty big funk right after that too.

QUOTE(Bonderman38 @ Aug 11, 2006 -> 04:26 PM) I love Berman when he is doing his specialty, football. I HATE it when he does baseball. He sucks. I don't even like him doing football. He seems like a big Bills fan, and I just dispise the guy. And people say Hawk is a homer(he is, but not nearly as big a homer as Berman)

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Aug 11, 2006 -> 11:39 PM) Yes I said it, and it's due to BP and over stat rags creating stats like EqA and using BABIP as an excuse for his crappy average. I saw him play in cincy, and he was terrible. The fans were (suprisingly) all over him (kind suprised because their scoreboard shows OBP and SLG%.) One poster here called him one of the top ten "hitters" of the game. The fact that someone would make that claim makes him very overrated. He'd rather try to get a walk than knock in a run. You don't have to swing for the f***ing river every time you're at the plate. Anyone claiming Dunn's a top 10 hitter, in the truest sense of the word, isn't even close...he's a below average hitter. In the sense that by hitter they mean good offensively, then they are not wrong. He's Bonds without the average and 3rd person dialect. I think he strikes out a little more than Bonds too.