witesoxfan

Honestly, if he got good enough offers, it would not surprise me if he traded 2 of the big 3.

No it's not. You've been saying the White Sox have had no shot at getting Hudson Beane said he has no intentions of trading the big 3. And atleast one of those is a lie.

I was wondering what the first Rocco meant. Sure enough, it meant what I thought... Rocco Baldelli will miss 6-9 months after having his torn left ACL repaired today, trainer Ken Crenshaw said. "There was concern that Rocco had torn the meniscus (cartilage) in the knee, but there was no tear and the bruising on the end of the bone was not as severe as first thought," Crenshaw said. "Given Rocco's outstanding work ethic, we are optimistic he will make a full recovery." A full recovery is likely, but it may not happen until 2006. It's likely that Baldelli will miss at least the first month or two of next season. Nov. 5 Damn, Rocco and Berkman. That's rough

hi8is just had his ankles broken Beane's going to say that...he doesn't want to make it seem like he's desperate. Remember what happened the last time a team said they had to get rid of someone? Montreal ended up with a broken down El Duque, a mediocre Rocky Biddle, and a journeyman 1B/OF type in Jeff Liefer for Bartolo Colon.

Best pitcher is pushing it to say the very least...I do agree with you(even though I just said what I said) Depending on how you look at Kevin Brown and El Duque, one could argue that he was the best starter though.

Not when you're the Yankees and he would be your cheapest starter. He won 14 games for them while missing a month and a half. He was their best starter in the playoffs. You don't decline that option. Very dumb move by Steinbrenner and company.

His asking price is incredible. I don't know how any team could give him that much...quite frankly, I don't know how any team could give any player that kind of money. Baltimore got one of the best SS's in the game in Miguel Tejada(I think he is the best now that ARod has moved to 3B) for 6-years, $72 mill IIRC. They got a guy that gave them .311 34 150 .894 with excellent defense for $12 mill. And Beltran, who hit .268 38 104 .915 (42 SBs in 45 attempts) with very good defense in CF wants around $17 mill? I like the guy and think he could be a potential 50 homer guy at USCF...but he is not worth that much. No one is.

Wow, George Steinbrenner is on tilt. One bad beat and he does the stupidest thing he could do. He just lost the best pitcher on his staff. Good job dumbass. Also...get him now. You ink him to a 3-year $21 mill deal, and you have a damn good starter. Do this in a f***ing heart beat.

How many more do you want?

f*** the DBacks. They're the ones who didn't check into this before. He's not being a dishonest person by not coming out about these problems, the DBacks are f***ing morons for not asking about these types of things in the interview. What an ass-backwards organization. Damn. Wally Backman may not be the nicest guy ever, but damn, give him a shot. He'll be back somewhere...he's only 45, so he's still got plenty of time. I'm sure he'll catch onto some independent league team as the manager or some team will make him manager of one of their minor league teams, and he'll lead them to success.

Hit .275 or better in 3 of his last 4 full seasons, career .275 hitter Yep, all signs indicate he is a .250 hitter :rolly I also see Cabrera getting probably 4 years in FA, and Garciaparra will cost more then $7 mill on the open market with the Cubs looking at resigning him and both LA and Anaheim having interest in all likelyhood. I see him getting $8-10 mill. The Sox do not want a lot of strings attached to the FA they sign, and they do not want them to be extra spendy. They also want a guy who can provide a little leadership, regardless of how much stock you put into intangibles...SS is the position they've gotten leadership from before in the past, and they will lose it. I don't buy leadership like that, but Vizquel's older and knows his way around the block...he'll help the kids on the team. That's not worth anymore money or is not a reason to sign him...it's just an incentive in signing him. The Sox future SS is playing 2B for the next 2 years(assuming Vizquel does ink with the Sox), and their potential future 2Bman(if he could ever figure out LHP) could be riding the pine this year after a decent first full year in the bigs. I think the only other guy they would have potential interest in is Larkin, and I just don't think they like him as much because they didnt see him killing the Sox the past 10 years or so.

Konerko for Hudson would not get it done. Oakland could probably get Posada for Hudson, along with having most of his salary paid, and perhaps even more from New York. I proposed this assuming that Konerko for Hudson would not get it done. If Konerko for Hudson would be able to get it done, then a couple of things would be true. Oakland would be killing themselves financially(taking on around $2.5 more mill for a guy who's numbers clearly indicate that his numbers are swayed severely because of the ball park he plays in), and he would not be getting much value for one of the best young starters in the league. Youkilis straight up for Tim Hudson makes much more sense then Konerko for Hudson, because atleast Youkilis is much cheaper and is younger then Konerko. The reason I have basically said that I don't think Boston has enough to get it done is because I don't think they have nearly enough MLB talent on their team to trade to Oakland to satisfy enough of Billy Beane's needs Also...the way I break it down, I have it as Lee and the prospects for Hudson, and either Konerko for Kendall for Byrnes, or Konerko for Byrnes(and then Konerko would be traded for Kendall). I think the player has to actually be on the team at some given time for a team to take on part of his contract, so I would assume the former would be the case rather then the latter(because in the second one, Kendall is never on the White Sox, therefore, they cannot take on any of his contract). I mentioned Hudson for Konerko in the sub-title simply for clarifications sake. The initial rumor was Konerko for Hudson, and as I mentioned before, that would, in all likelyhood, not get the job done. If it would get the job done, then by god capitalize on Beane being an absolute douchebag while you can, and trade Konerko straight up for Hudson and don't even worry about the rest of it. What I am wondering is how crazy New York really is...are they crazy enough that they'd look at maybe trading Posada, Brown(and/or Vazquez, Gordon, among others), 3-4 prospects, plus the contracts of everyone involved for Hudson? If they are that crazy, you either have to out-crazy them, or you have to give in. Personally, I do think they are crazy enough to trade Posada and Brown along with multiple prospects and the contracts of everyone for Hudson...that's how bad their rotation situation was this year...but I don't think they'd do it right away. And quite honestly, I'm not sure Oakland takes our trade over New York's. I don't think you can f*** around with this...you have to out-crazy them before they can out-crazy you. New York all but had a trade lined up with Seattle to get Garcia, but KW snuck in there with an offer Seattle couldn't refuse...he did probably the craziest thing anyone ever expected and threw Olivo into the deal to sweeten it up. New York, Seattle, and quite frankly everyone was stunned by the move, and New York could not counter it, and we ended up with Garcia. That's the basic idea behind this trade...you start out by dangling Konerko and a prospect for Hudson, then Boston comes in and dangles Youk plus 3 prospects, then New York comes in and dangles Posada plus his contract along with 2 prospects...you gotta come over the top of Posada plus then...and you get into a bidding war. By doing my proposal, you avoid the bidding war completely, and keep everyone else away(though that's just the best case scenario). I may be underestimating Konerko and Lee's value...but I am not overestimating Hudson's value by any means. There is nothing written down that Beane has to trade Hudson...what their ownership and what the assumption is around baseball is that any part of the big 3 will be traded...that means we are not only up against whoever has interest in Hudson(mainly New York and Boston probably), but we are also up against Toronto and NYM(who both want Zito pretty badly), plus others who would like Mulder too. We could, realistically, be in a bidding war with up to 10 teams. That does mean that we have to have a better offer on the table for Hudson then any team does for any of them. That will take a lot. Do I think I'm overpaying, no I dont. I KNOW I'm overpaying in the deal...we are definately giving up the most in the deal...therefore, we probably have the most to lose. We also have the most to gain in the deal too...this deal gets done, we get to the postseason, we are one of the favorites to win it all, I don't care who we are facing. I hope I've explained myself well enough. HSC's biggest fan...you are correct. That's what I was implying in what I said. I should have made myself more clear.

Damn I wish I had a tough guy story like so many on here. I've never broken a thing in my body. And I intend on keeping it that way(hopefully).

I do understand that we are giving up a ton. But, using completely hypothetical numbers, here are two scenarios I came up with... This is the offense and rotation without the deal. Vizquel - .280 5 50 .725 .350 OBP 20 SBs Rowand - .300 25 75 .850 .375 OBP 25 SBs Thomas - .270 35 110 .950 .425 OBP ---(his SBs mean nothing) Lee - .310 35 110 .900 .370 20 SBs Konerko - .275 35 110 .900 .370 --- Everett - .280 25 80 .800 .350 --- Uribe - .280 25 70 .800 .350 15 SBs Crede - .260 25 65 .750 .310 OBP --- Davis - .250 10 50 .700 .300 OBP --- Buehrle - 16-10 4.00 Garcia - 16-10 4.00 Contreras - 15-12 4.50 Garland - 15-12 4.50 s***ty #5 starter - 8-12 5.50 This is the potential offense and rotation after making the deal Byrnes - .280 25 70 .800 .350 25 Vizquel - ditto Thomas - ditto Everett - ditto Rowand - ditto Gload - he could be anywhere from .270 15 60 to .300 25 90...I picked middle ground and said .285 20 75 .800 Uribe - ditto Crede - ditto Davis - ditto Basically...what this trade does to the offense is takes out a little power...as you can tell, for the large part, the offense remains the same. Guys move up and down and that is probably the main thing that affects the offense...in getting rid of Lee, you have no true cleanup guy, so Everett has to come in and do that job for you. It's messy, but it gets the job done. The rotation is that part I liked the most Hudson - 18-8 3.50 Buehrle - 16-10 4.00 Garcia - 16-10 4.00 Contreras - 13-13 4.75 Garland - 13-13 4.75 Notice that both Garland and Contreras numbers are not the same as above...and the rotation is still better. That's why trading that much for Hudson means so much...we go from having a solid, yet still not great rotation to having a great, top 3 in the majors rotation, and a 1-2-3 that can handle anyone's. In trading Konerko, Lee, 3 prospects(probably would be Munoz, Diaz, and a guy like Spidale at the very most) and $10 mill to Oakland, the Sox almost put themselves over the top, because they do still have $5 mill or so to spend elsewhere(like on Percival or Urbina), or they could go out and trade for Guillen and have Everett come off the bench as a very good 1B/OF type guy...or they could do both I suppose. That is why I make this trade...I do feel it almost puts us over the top. Losing Konerko and Lee hurts the Sox offense a little bit, but what they get in return is worth it.

I look at it this way We already have Everett and Gload who are basically bench players for us now(actually, Everett will be the starting DH going into next year until Frank is healthy and then will move to RF with Lee on the team...I do not like the thought of Everett in RF, and I don't think a lot of other people do either). Konerko and Lee are, combined, about .280 70 200 .900-ish with a combined total of $16.5 mill between the two of them. Those are solid numbers, to say the least. However, in trading them both for Hudson and Byrnes, we are getting perhaps .280 25 80 25 .800 production in return in Byrnes in CF, we get whatever ARow does for us in RF, and we have Everett in LF, where I am much more comfortable with him(and I'm sure many others are too). You then put Gload at 1B. While that does not improve the offense, it does improve the starting rotation a ton...you go from having Buehrle-Garcia-Contreras-Garland-some s***ty pitcher to having Hudson-Buehrle-Garcia-Contreras-Garland...the strength of the rotation is probably not matched by a lot of teams, and I'd take that rotation up against any in the majors. I do not feel that we are Hudson and Byrnes away from winning the division and winning it all...but I do feel that this deal does puts us very close, honest to god. One thing I just thought about...the St. Louis part could be thrown completely out. when I was thinking about this before, I for some reason completely skipped over the fact that the Sox would be saving about $9 mill in making this trade, which is where picking up some money comes in handy. The 4 mill that St. Louis picked up before is instead picked up by the Sox, and is picked up in 2005, not over 06 and 07. I say this because Lee and Konerko's salaries combined are costing the Sox a total of $16.5 mill(as I mentioned above), while Hudson and Byrnes combined cost a total of around $7.5-8 mill. The Sox can pick up $4 mill of this and still have enough money to go after a solid reliever and to sign Vizquel to the 2 year, $8 mill deal. It may seem like a ton to give up...and it really is...but it could reap rewards. Hudson is a stud and would likely be here for quite a while(or that's what I hope anyways). That being said, here's how I now view it... Sox give: Lee, Konerko, prospects, and $10 mill total($4 mill in 05, $2 in 06, $4 in 07) A's give: Hudson and Byrnes Pirates give: Kendall and $12 mill Sox get: Huddy and Byrnes A's get: Lee, Kendall, 2 of the 3 prospects, and the same $22 mill combined Pirates get: Konerko and a prospect It is still a lot of money switching hands...and it's a ton by the White Sox...but I think that if it gets the Sox Hudson and Byrnes, then I'm for it.

No, just giving Beane a lot of credit. Probably too much actually.

How much would it improve their team though? Kendall's career OBP is .387, and the lowest his OBP has been the past 3 years is .350 in 2002. Beane gets Kendall for $5 mill a year, and Kendall will almost undoubtedly put up atleast a .380 OBP. He also gets a run producer and a good RH bat in Lee for LF He'd rather get something for Hudson then nothing, and he's definately getting a big something for him if he were to make this move.

As almost everyone knows by now, there are rumors of a potential Konerko for Hudson trade(we only have like a 180 post thread about it...if you missed it, WAKE THE f*** UP). I brought up an idea to bring Byrnes to the Sox, and how it would help us a ton. This does bring up a point though...why would Beane trade Byrnes? He's cheap, young, and is good...he doesn't need to get rid of him for a couple years. So, I got to thinking about something that could work, but it gets pretty complicated...so complicated in fact that it involves 4 teams. To start the deal, the White Sox send Carlos Lee, Paul Konerko, and a large package of prospects(3 or so...2 pitchers, 1 OF...these players are a little closer to the big league but are not big time impact players, or in all likelyhood will not be) to Oakland for Hudson and Byrnes. In addition with the package of Konerko, Lee, and prospects, the White Sox send $6 mill...I'll get to that very shortly. After that is done, the A's then send Konerko and one of the prospects they received from us to Pittsburgh for Jason Kendall and $12 mill(I seem to remember reading that Pittsburgh will take on around 35% of Kendall's remaining $34 mill, but not much more then that...that means in the $11-12 mill neighborhood). That's where the $6 mill the Sox sent along with Konerko, Lee, and the prospects comes into play. The Pirates pick up $8 mill of Kendall's $10 mill for 05, and $2 more the following years. The Sox pick up $2 mill of Kendall's contract for 05 and $4 mill for 06. But from that math, Oakland's still paying Kendall $7 mill in 06 and 07...too much by a couple mill. That's where the 4th team comes in, and this is probably the most objectionable part of the whole trade, and this is where it very well could break down. The Athletics then send Arthur Rhodes to St. Louis for a prospect and $4 mill...the prospect would be decent, but does not have to be anything spectacular...the key to that is the $4 mill St. Louis sends Oakland. To put it in a simplified sort of fashion, here's how it breaks down Sox give: Konerko, Lee, 3 prospects, and $6 mill A's give: Hudson, Byrnes, and Rhodes Pirates give: Kendall and $12 mill Cards give: prospect and $4 mill Sox receive: Hudson and Byrnes A's receive: Lee, Kendall, and a combined total of $22 mill Pirates receive: Konerko and a prospect Cards receive: Rhodes The reason the Sox make it is obvious...they improve a ton. The reason Oakland makes the move is because they get essentially the same production out of Lee and Kendall as they do with Posada and Byrnes(this assuming that New York would send Posada out west along with taking on a considerable chunk of his salary for Hudson), their payroll stays the same, and Beane no longer has to worry about paying a middle reliever/set up guy $3-4 mill. Pittsburgh makes the trade because they get rid of Kendall's albatross of a contract and get a little something-something in return in the prospect they receive(along with the prospects they'd probably get for trading Konerko at the deadline). And St. Louis makes the trade because they get a replacement for Steve Kline while giving up a prospect and $4 mill total in 06 and 07. Another reason I think Oakland and Beane maybe want to work with KW is that he realizes the Sox are not nearly as close to winning it all as the Yankees are, and by trading Hudson to New York, he improves the Yankees rotation a ton to the point where they are a World Series favorite again. That's probably wishful thinking however. Anyways...comments on the craziness of this trade?

Now that I got to thinking about my post a little more...does anyone think there is any way that we could get Byrnes and Hudson for Lee and prospects without having to kill ourselves for the future? KW wants grinders...guys who dont do anything too special or make things flashy, but they get the job done and they do it well. When I think of that, I think of 3 players off the topf of my head...Darin Erstad, Aaron Rowand, and Eric Byrnes. There are others too, those are just the 3 that come to mind initially right now for me. I also know that Beane does not like to give up good, cheap players...that's exactly what Byrnes is. However, Beane would have value in acquiring Carlos Lee, especially with the A's lack of a RH power bat. And Carlos Lee is not as expensive as Konerko is(he makes $1 mill less, if both were to be traded). Is a package of Lee and maybe 2-3 better prospects(maybe a pitcher or two and an OFer) good enough for Hudson and Byrnes? I'd imagine Byrnes could step into the leadoff role then(though he really could hit almost anywhere in the order). He gets on base enough that it would be worthwhile to have him there, and he can steal bases pretty well too(considering that he stole 17 for an A's team that had only 8 people steal a base ball year, including Byrnes, and had a combined total of 37 stolen bases. He stole almost half of the A's bases this year. He was also only caught 1 time stealing...so he steals bases pretty well. If that were to occur, then Vizquel could be brought in and he would be put in a spot where he would be more comfortable in the order at the #2 spot, Rowand would be able to move down to the 5 or 6 spot in the lineup, and Everett would be in LF, where I know we are all more comfortable with him(some, including I, do not want him here at all...but I'd much rather have him in LF then CF or RF). You can still trade Kong, of course too, with Gload on the bench, and cheap replacements galore.

North Dakota 19th...sweet. That means were smarter then 3/5 of the country. I don't know how that's possible though. It gets to be like -20 in the winter time for weeks at a time. I don't know how any sane person lives up here, let alone SMART people. And just because I ripped the s*** out of myself gives you no right to laugh!

I don't think you can question Lee's work ethic. He has gone from being one of the worst defenders at any position in either league to being one of the better defensive LFers in the game. And, quite honestly, I'm not sure how much validity there is to him having little heart or desire. I can't prove that he does have it, but I am pretty sure you are in the same boat as I am because you can't prove that he doesn't have it. If that's KW's reasoning behind trading him, it is a bad trade. You can trade Lee for Hudson...there is nothing wrong with that at all. But I trade Lee to Oakland for Hudson because Lee has value and Oakland doesn't take Konerko+ for Hudson. Quite honestly...I'm not sure I buy Konerko for Hudson, simply because I'm not sure how much Konerko helps Oakland. They have Hatteberg and Durazo in there right now, and both of those two are more effecient players for Oakland(and what I mean by that Oakland is getting a better bang for the buck with those 2 then they are with Konerko...Konerko will give them better stats, but at a much higher cost, and I don't think Oakland has any need to make that move). Oakland could use another OFer...I believe they have Byrnes in LF right now, but I think his arm is strong enough that he could move to RF without a ton of problems. I also think Beane can then slip Lee into LF, tell him to worry about getting on base and being patient at the plate, and Lee will respond by putting up good numbers. I do not think getting Hudson is out of the question at all. There is no doubt about that in my mind. I'm just not sure how much it would cost, and I'm not sure I want to know how much it would cost. EDIT: Dammit, I keep forgetting about Swisher in RF. Oh well...my above statements still hold true

Holy s***, that would be no good. I would be happy with Minny losing him, but Cleveland getting him doesnt help us a hell of a lot.

The rotation would be Hudson-Buehrle-Garcia-Contreras-Garland But I agree completely with you. Except the drooling part.

I would guess(though this is total speculation on my part) that KW called Boras and said that he if Houston cannot resign Beltran before November 11th that KW and the Sox will be very interested in him and will be going after him, and Boras just probably said that he(Beltran) was interested in playing in Chicago too. Regardless...I envision Beltran on a coast(more specifically...New York or Anaheim) or back in the state of Texas(or more specifically, Houston or Texas...Boras and Hicks have a great working relationship, though I'm not sure if bridges were burned in trading ARod...and he could fit, though Texas would have to get rid of some of their young talent...probably for pitching).

Do not be surprised if they trade Hunter. He'll make probably around $10 mill next year, and they have replacements for him(be it Ford or Jones). They are not nearly as good defensively, but offensively, they are solid enough that they can replace the production Hunter gives them. I couldn't give you exact teams that would have interest in Hunter, but there would be teams that would. Who wouldn't like a 29 year old GG CFer who will give you .270 25 90 20 .800? His contract is a little high, but you can work around that, due to his capabilities in CF. Radke is priority #1...they do not want to lose Radke.