witesoxfan

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 11, 2014 -> 12:29 PM) Has Wilkins EVER played the outfield? Just doesn't seem like the best idea in the world if he's going to be worse than Viciedo and Garcia out there...thinking Josh Fields and that move to LF. They're much better off acquiring a Seth Smith/under the radar type...who can actually upgrade our OF defense instead of make it even worse, and that's pretty hard to do when you're talking Viciedo, DeAza and Garcia. Seth Smith signed an extension with San Diego. He's not going anywhere. The thought behind it is that you can get his bat into the lineup more consistently then. It's not to move him to OF full time.

This is what Miguel Cabrera has seen behind him the last 3 years: 2012: .313/.412/.528/.940, 152 wRC+ 2013: .279/.362/.457/.819, 124 wRC+ 2014: .321/.386/.556/.942, 152 wRC+ Here's how Miguel Cabrera has performed: 2012: .330/.393/.606/.999, 165 wRC+ 2013: .348/.442/.636/1.078, 191 wRC+ 2014: .304/.364/.508/.872, 137 wRC+ In this particular sample, the theory is immediately debunked. If Jose Abreu is a good hitter, he will hit well. It won't matter a heck of a lot who hits in front of behind him. If it did, you'd have to imagine it would affect the others directly in front of or behind him as well, and nobody has hit particularly well out of the 2 hole this year.

Also, lineup protection is largely a myth unless the guy hitting behind you is Barry Bonds. They're going to pitch to or around Abreu early in the game no matter what, and if they bring a lefty to hit behind him in, they'll still pitch to or around (or walk) Abreu regardless of the lefty behind him.

No, it's terribly misguided. Yes, more playing time represents a more significant sample size, but if people are really swayed by 40-50 additional at bats, then I have ocean view property in North Dakota to sell them. The guy absolutely deserves a chance, and I've never denied this, but there's no rush to get him to the majors. The larger outcry should come from the group that wants to see Semien/Johnson/Sanchez given an extended look at 2B, but even I've admitted that there's not going to be a signficant difference in how we feel about those guys going into next year no matter what they do. Frankly, getting Wilkins some starts in the OF, even if he's got absolutely no range out there, isn't the worst thing in the world for his prospects of making the MLB roster out of Spring Training.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 11, 2014 -> 10:55 AM) ON the grounds that it was only september, yes, people would say that. Then people are terribly misguided.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 11, 2014 -> 10:50 AM) Kinda. It would sure help. You certainly couldn't tell me "He hasn't yet earned a longer look" if he did that for 40 games. Versus 25 games? It's still an incredibly small sample size. If he does that over 25 games, do you suddenly say "oh it's a fluke and he hasn't earned a longer look?"

Bottom line, do people view Andy Wilkins differently if he comes up tomorrow and hits .300/.350/.500 in 40 games and 130 plate appearances as opposed to if he comes up September 1st and hits .300/.350/.500 in 25 games and 85 plate appearances? I'm still going to have the same general concerns heading into the year next year.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Aug 11, 2014 -> 10:36 AM) You completely misinterpreted my point. First of all, Andy's numbers are not "kinda close", they're very close. But who is arguing that he would put up the same numbers in the Big Leagues? I certainly am not. The point I was making is that his numbers are impressive enough to consider him a top 20 prospect. Moreover, Adam Dunn is not good enough to be blocking his potential development, especially since he won't be back next year, and the trade deadline has passed. The larger point, which I didn't make, is that we will never know if Wilkin's is going to be able to hit Big League pitching, unless he gets enought at bats in the League. As some have pointed out, a September call up is always subject to criticism, owing to the reduced level of competition on opposing rosters, which also contain many Minor League call ups. Kinda close is similar to very close. Arguing that is silly. They are still worse at a level that has significantly less talent than the one Abreu is at. That's the more important point. He turns 26 this year, plays 1B, and has never put up numbers even close to this before. That likely indicates that this current production, as opposed to the numbers he's previously put up, is the fluke. Adam Dunn IS good enough to be blocking him, otherwise the White Sox would have gotten rid of him. Adam Dunn is still a very good hitter against RHP and there is certainly still a possibility that the Sox get someone for him. The non-waiver trade deadline has passed. The Sox can certainly still get something for him and I'm sure they're working on it at this point in time, figuring which offers are on the table and which one makes the most sense with the prospect coming back and how much the Sox are willing to eat. I'm very sure the White Sox will call Wilkins up in September, and he'll get some extended looks. Even if it is overly saturated with minor league call ups (not to near the extent that people generally believe), those are still the best of the best minor leaguers getting called up to the majors. It's a good litmus test to see where he's at. If he's successful, great, maybe he gets an extended look or maybe the Sox don't spend extra on a LH bat in free agency or trade. If he fails, then you know what you have against the AAA saturated MLB (even though it's not). If the Sox find a taker for Dunn, then I have no problem with Wilkins coming up and testing his mettle at the MLB level, but there's no rush.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Aug 11, 2014 -> 10:23 AM) I didn't say anything about his being able to perform at the same level, in the Big Leagues. All I am saying is that Wilkin's performance is impressive enough to merit some time with the parent club, and certainly enough to rank him ahead of a lot of guys in the organization who are not putting up numbers even close to being comparable. You don't have to compare his numbers to Jose Abreu's numbers to make the case that he should get some time. I'm willing to bet, however, that if Adam Dunn played this entire season at the AAA level, his line would be somewhere around .270/.420/.580. Adam Dunn is a lot better than you think and the difference between AAA and MLB is a hell of a lot greater than you think. That park is also playing like a bandbox this year as well. QUOTE (Lillian @ Aug 11, 2014 -> 10:24 AM) No, I'm not. That is precisely why I qualified the comparison. And in qualifying that comparison, you admit that it's an entirely invalid comparison. AAA and MLB are nowhere close to being similar competition levels.

You're comparing MLB numbers to AAA numbers. That kills the validity of any argument you make immediately. You're comparing Jose Abreu to Andy Wilkins. That kills the validity of your argument. Also, Adam Dunn is one of the best DHs in the league against RHP, so I have no idea why you would say he's one of the worst and just assume it to be correct. I hate to be so absolutely blunt here, but this is one of the worst arguments for Andy Wilkins I have seen on this website. I have no problem with him getting a chance at some point, but simply saying "his AAA numbers are kinda close to Jose Abreu's MLB numbers but they're still worse!" and "Adam Dunn sucks" are not good arguments.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 11, 2014 -> 09:47 AM) Again, Mitchell looks a whole lot different if he doesn't destroy his ankle in a spring training game. Of course he wouldn't be Mike Trout, but no one is. Well, Mike Trout is Mike Trout, so your argument is invalid.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 11, 2014 -> 09:58 AM) He's not Mark Cuban, he's not Ilitch, he doesn't spend insane amounts of his own personal money on a title quest. That's the argument, we don't have a free spender (Of course, the odds are looking worse and worse by the day as far as the Tigers getting back to the World Series again this year.) Maybe we can hire Gregg Popovich to improve our international scouting/development after he's finished, as Jerry Krause working as a White Sox scout didn't last very long. So because the White Sox have a rational and fiscally responsible ownership group, Sox fans should be upset? What a travesty. You don't have to spend $150-175 million to win in today's environment. You win by building your team up from within and making smart acquisitions and then adding pieces to that core group of players.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 11, 2014 -> 09:09 AM) Why are we getting so worked up over this? It doesn't matter. His presence on the team has neither helped nor hurt our chances of winning this year. What should we have done with the roster spot? Parked Marcus Semien on the bench? Signed Willie Bloomquist to put the team over the top.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 10, 2014 -> 01:49 PM) Wow, tough grader. Bad for 2.5 years? Are you counting this year? This year he's not being given a fair chance. He's actually still a decent player in my book. He's still the best at scooping throws. Until the last 20 or so at bats was around .250. I won't go on my diatribe about Mr. 44 RBI Adam Dunn, but Paul Konerko is the LEAST of the Sox problems the past several years IMO. I can't understand why Sox fans aren't showing him total love like Yankee fans with Jeter. This guy won us a world series. Let me ask you. What do you think the odds are of the Sox ever winning another one in your lifetime? I'd say the odds are about 50-1. Jerry isn't going to win another one. It will be a matter of who gets the team and if it's Jerry's relative, the odds remain at best 50-1 in your lifetime IMO. If it's somebody like Cuban with money money money the odds will improve. Thank u Paul Konerko! Paul Konerko has been bad for 2 and a half years. It takes a couple clicks on his profile on any statistics site to see that. This year he's done exactly what he wanted to do. He did not want to come back and be a full time player. He would not have signed. And, given that he's been effective against LHP, he's done exactly what's been asked of him. He's been one of the worst 1B in the game against RHP for the last 2 years because he can't catch up to the heat any more. People have no problem with Konerko, because he's been a great hitter for the better part of his career, but he's no where near Jeter's level. He also didn't win the Sox a World Series, the team won a World Series and he was apart of that. Given that I figure I'll be around another 40-50 years, and that there is competence in the front office and they are willing to spend money, I'd say the odds are right around 50% (or 2-1 odds) that the Sox will win another World Series in my life time. I don't understand the need to take a shot at Reinsdorf here, who has spent appropriately on this team for the better part of his membership on the board for the Chicago White Sox, but it depends on how much longer you are going to be alive. If you are in your 40s or 50s, the odds decrease signficantly unless you can live until you're 90 or 100.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 11, 2014 -> 08:27 AM) thats ok, I will take my bag of balls and you can have your live arm. When you get arrested for trafficking of body parts, I will go play catch. As if an officer isn't going to question why you have a sack full of testicles in your back seat.

It's ironic that we're worried about Abreu playing too often when coming into the season the worry was that he wouldn't play enough. Oh how times change. BTW, this is not a criticism of anyone, I just find it ironic and nothing more.

I would take Santiago in a heart beat. Even if you believe he isn't that good or he won't ever improve, it's still a live arm for a contract that can safely be considered a sunk cost at this point.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Aug 11, 2014 -> 07:26 AM) What exactly is not much of a difference? I don't remember the exact numbers, but the difference between the least optimized lineup and the most optimized lineup is like 20-30 runs, which is 2-3 wins in a context neutral setting, and much of that difference can be cancelled out by dumb luck, which you cannot control for in any setting. And I believe that is almost always the difference. If you have good hitters, you'll score runs no matter how the lineup is set, and if you have bad hitters, you won't score runs, no matter how the lineup is set.

QUOTE (QuickJones81 @ Aug 9, 2014 -> 12:26 PM) Matt Kemp FSL .918 6th rd Paul Goldschmidt PIO 1.045 8th rd Jonathan LuCroy PIO .867 3rd rd I'm not saying Peter is destined to be in this group, but my point is that you shouldn't just ignore a guy because of where he was drafted and that he's playing in rookie ball. The sox promoted him pretty aggressively to a league he is 2 years behind in age. So to me they currently think he's more than just a guy. Basing rankings of prospects off of what they did and have done at the Rookie level is not good advice. Let them do more and maybe we can make some better judgments.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 04:21 PM) Because they have 10X the amount of practices between games, and preseason and off-season training. Almost all of their pitchers throw a lot more than MLB pitchers do between starts, and pitch counts of 125-175 in actual games aren't so unusual. They drill and drill and drill on fundamentals and team-based drills, calisthenics, it's almost like military training over there the way they approach it. MLB players have a VERY cushy life comparatively, even if the regular season is longer. The travel is a hell of a lot less extensive and they don't play nearly as aggressively either. I just have a hard time believing that the Japanese circuit is more physically demanding than the major leagues.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 04:16 PM) I would say it's actually the opposite. Why would you say that?

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 03:57 PM) Well they can massage his time next year to avoid super 2 but in general I agree there isn't any reason to start the clock unless he's absolutely dominating and you want to develop him more at the MLB level. Yeah, I'm not giong to be surprised if Rodon "needs to work on a few things" up until about July 5th or so of next season. Maybe only till May as I don't think they'll be overly concernerd with the Super 2 status as they are having as much time with him on the roster as possible. Hahn has also shown much, much more willingness to work with Boras. Williams typically did everything he could do avoid him.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 03:35 PM) Bleacher Report predicted that's where he'll sign in the offseason on a one year $12.5 million deal. If Dunn gets $12.5 mill, I might genuinely eat a hat.

Baltimore could definitely find a spot for Dunn, especially with the struggles of Chris Davis this year, although Nelson Cruz has only played about half of the Orioles games in the outfield.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 01:27 PM) Obviously things are a little bit better, but let's see the last six weeks play out. I kind of disagree. 1B-Yes you are right. We have a star. 3B-Maybe. Unfortunately because of Gillaspie's defense, the verdict is still out. He has improved hitting wise. Still not a lot of RBIs. CF - Yes he's good, but LF and RF are still question marks. Farm system - I thought all our outfield candidates were busts. People have been blasting Semien as being a bust as far as being a future starter. What down there is so great besides Rodon? Is Micah very good or not? Most importantly - Pitching. Sale and Q are the only ultra reliable starters. Rodon is the next ace type hopefully. And the defense is projected as remaining lousy with A. Garcia coming back and Tank still out leftfielder with a sieve at third base. Who replaces Lexi? My point is, if the Sox continue to tank and finish about 15 below .500 is the optimism still there? I think Fathom's recent post is more accurate about having 5-6 very good players and the rest below average. Well, unless a game is cancelled, it's impossible to finish 15 below .500, it'll either be 14 or 16 under. They would still have to go 18-28 or 19-27, which is possible, but with how this team has played all year, I don't think that's very likely.