witesoxfan

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 13, 2014 -> 01:35 PM) And of course when the Cubs eventually/finally do sign an ace (probably Lester) and the White Sox don't, there will be the usual penny-pinching stories in the media, despite our payrolls from 2006-2013 being evidence to the contrary. Why do the Sox need to sign an ace? They have one of the best pitchers in the majors and a great #2.

If we're still talking about Polanco v. Beltre, here's how that number breaks down: Polanco 2013 - 0.1 double play runs, -7.3 range runs, 4.9 error runs, -2.4 UZR, -4.5 UZR/150 Beltre 2013 - -0.1 double play runs, -0.4 range runs, -0.7 error runs, -1.2 UZR, -1.4 UZR/150 So they were essentially equally good at turning double plays, Beltre showed superior range, and Polanco showed surer hands. If they had both played the same amount of time given the same exact fielding quality, Beltre would have been the superior defender. That doesn't seem like an unfair summary to me.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 13, 2014 -> 01:03 PM) The problem with Taylor is he is a former top prospect who most likely has been given chances others wouldn't have received due to his status. He has about 500 more professional plate appearances than Gordon Beckham. Maybe he is a late bloomer, but odds are for a major league player..............he sucks. Don't get me wrong, I definitely agree with this. I just basically don't think it'd be a bad idea to see if there's anything there. And, though Jake Sanchez is unlikely to turn into anything, he always put up good numbers and has continued to do so with Oakland. I don't think they would be so willing to just dispose of a guy like that for a guy they see nothing in. This isn't acquiring Shawn Hill for virutally nothing.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Aug 13, 2014 -> 11:55 AM) Options are used one per year. Danks was optioned once already this year, therefore he can be sent to Charlotte and called back up to Chicago 57 times in between and another option is not burned. I believe there are some restrictions. If you send a guy down, I do not believe you are allowed to immediately call him back up unless there is an injury that occurs. I think Danks can technically only be called up another 5 or 6 times this year.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 13, 2014 -> 11:43 AM) Then I'm going to go by "past demonstrated ability to succeed" in the majors and try to sign Colby Rasmus over trotting out the likes of Taylor, Danks, Wilkins, Willingham, Sierra, Tuiasasopo, etc. So you want to spend $75-90 million over 5-6 years on a 28 year old who has never showed any consistent ability to play well and then have him play LF or RF? That's not a very good idea either. Replace "Taylor" with De Aza and "29" with 28. The sentence says the same exact thing. I'm not saying Taylor is, or that any guy in AAA is, but the Sox need to do their due diligence in giving these guys a shot rather than spending gobs of money on a white, left handed version of BJ Upton. No and no. They have a lot of holes, and, as you allude to here, unless they are willing to commit $70 mill or so to it this offseason in medium to long term contracts (which is a bad idea and not one that is endorsed by me), the team is probably going to be short of being competitive next year as well.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Aug 13, 2014 -> 11:26 AM) Hopefully you are right about Taylor. I almost brought up De Aza myself but it only served your point. So I didn't. My thing is that I know we're looking for long-term guys, but there are already lots of tryouts going on all over the 2015 roster with two rotation spots, half the bullpen, second base, arguably right field, etc. So at some point, I just want a guy who I know can do it in the majors. That's what Willingham represents to me, but if I elaborate I'll basically just be repeating myself. I certainly see where you're coming from. Right, and I don't necessarily believe Taylor is the solution, but it's a good thing to see these guys in action. It's one of those things where I think we have two distinct sides of this rebuilding thing. Currently, the Sox have the requisite building blocks in place to field a good, strong, contending team - to me, those that we can be assured are those good players are Sale, Quintana, Abreu, and Eaton. We may have one in Garcia. But the Sox need glue guys, and acquiring those guys on the free agent market is incredibly expensive and inefficient. If you can find them cheap and cost controlled, you can begin to spend on areas where you have not been able to find those glue guys, which is when it is OK to spend way too much on a bullpen arm.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Aug 13, 2014 -> 10:55 AM) That is more faith than I'm willing to put into a 28-year-old career minor leaguer, but given he can do those things, I agree that he'd be a better choice. I just find it very unlikely that he or any other outfielder in our system will emerge next year as the starting LF on our next good team. I think the goal right now is finding some sort of long-term alternative, which is something Willingham doesn't represent. That's my biggest qualm. Even if Taylor is a 28 year old career minor leaguer, he can still stick around for 5-6 years and that takes you to 2020. And you hopefully have someone lined up to take over that spot come 2019. Frankly, Alejandro De Aza was pretty much a career minor leaguer when he took over CF for the Sox and, while he's had his struggles and brain farts, has been an overall good player for the Sox.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Aug 13, 2014 -> 10:34 AM) Willingham's falloff from 2012 to 2014 isn't really comparable to Konerko's, because Willingham remains a good hitter. Taylor is probably a 4th outfielder at best, and if you'd really rather see Phegley then we're very far apart on this one. We can use a guy who hits the ball a long way and plays a position where we're not exactly talent-rich. I would not say he remains a good hitter, I would say he remains a competent hitter. He's also old while the Sox are in a rebuilding phase, and players do not improve as they get to that age unless they are aided by something. You state that Taylor is "probably" a 4th outfielder, but if he's never given a chance, we'll never know. Thus far in AAA, he's hit an (unsustainable but still great) .338/.417/.545. If he can come up and get a significant amount of at bats and prove to be capable of being a good 4th outfielder, then I find more value in that than I do bringing in an older Willingham. I will just state that Willingham is not a good option, and I imagine he'll probably want to re-sign with Minnesota this offseason anyways. He was never going to get a QO to begin with and stated that he'd love to retire to the upper midwest.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Aug 13, 2014 -> 09:52 AM) Bolded the OBP because it fills a need with Dunn presumably gone. It would be nice if Willingham was a lefty, but look again at his platoon splits. Year: wRC+ v L/R Career: 128/120 2014: 120/107 2013: 95/104 2012: 145/141 (!) That doesn't say "lefties only" to me. I'd rather have him than Viciedo, for example, even considering salary - neither can defend but Willingham hits and he might have another 2012 lurking in him. There are many alternatives, but a lot of them will cost more. I don't think he's a long-term solution, he gets hurt a lot, and I would think very hard before giving him even a two-year deal, but the 2015 team needs an outfielder and he's a fit. 2012 was a career year and a clear outlier, and at 36, he's not likely to repeat that. Just 2 years ago Konerko had a really good overall year for the Sox too, but that version is long gone. He's also been quite poor the last two years and banged up on top of that. Frankly, I'd rather see what guys like Phegley and Taylor can do when given a chance at the MLB level. The Sox have alternatives that aren't unathletic 36 year olds with one basic talent, and that's hitting the ball a long ways. At this point in his career, Willingham reminds me a lot of Pat Burrell late in his career.

QUOTE (knightni @ Aug 13, 2014 -> 09:41 AM) Garcia is on the 60 day dl. Someone will need to be removed from the 40 man as well. They have 39 active players on the 40-man roster.

You can justify it any way you feel. I'm just saying that acquiring a 34 year old 1B who has a history of concussion problems and one good year in the last four is not a good investment. I have no problem with the Sox dealing Viciedo, but they should try and get some kind of prospect out of the deal who has a chance to be a regular contributor at the MLB level for a long time, meaning someone younger than 34. If the Sox were one or two pieces away, I'd have no problem, but you can argue that they have holes at 2B, LF, RF, C, DH, virtually the entire bullpen, 2-3 rotation spots, and a lot of the bench. Moving forward, they're going to need to find a SS too. That's a lot to fill out. Beyond THAT, you are seriously going to go out of your way to trade for and pay extra for a 1B with those kinds of question marks while the Sox have a guy like Wilkins sitting in AAA who has absolutely murdered the ball over the last 2 months? I'd hope if the only two options involved trading Viciedo for Morneau or using Andy Wilkins as the full time DH, the Sox would go with Wilkins.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 13, 2014 -> 08:36 AM) Justin Morneau is a much better idea, but it would suck to have to give up a lot (of talent) when we could have had him this past offseason for pennies on the dollar if not for the fact that we were still suck with Dunn on the roster. Wonder if they would take Viciedo for him? I do not think that is a better idea, I think it is equally bad. I would not give up Viciedo for Morneau. Next year, he will be a 34 year old 1B coming off his first good season in 4 years with 1 year remaining on his contract. What future value is there in that contract?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 13, 2014 -> 02:22 AM) Thing is, he hasn't been that bad. He's an excellent pinch hitter and still a good defender. There are a lot of guys who could have had additional utility value - defensive versatility, better base running, better against RHP - that could have used the spot for Konerko. Konerko has been fairly good against LHP in limited ABs and that's been about it. I personally didn't mind Konerko being back because I realized what this year was (even if I held out hope that they could go on a run in May, June, or July and get in the race - I'm only human), but there are other players who could have provided more value to the Sox.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 08:23 PM) Are you being serious, or humorous? anyway. What's the worst that can happen, he bombs? His numbers are similar to Wilkins, so if he can play outfield like Willingham did with the Marlins, maybe the Sox have something. Start working him around the field to see if he can play any other positions. If he can't hack it at catcher, but he can hit the ball, find a spot for him. I watched Danks a little closer last night at the plate (when I was watching the game) and his contact skills are horrendous. I think it's a lot easier to hit the 88 MPH fastballs in AAA with lesser secondary stuff. He looked like he needed an oar to hit the ball a few times last night. This is a guy who hit .276/.357/.476/.833 in AAA and played really well in June and July. Again, maybe there's something there and he can morph into a 4th outfielder, but I don't even have high hopes for that. That's why I'm as skeptical as I am of these AAA players. I still want to see Wilkins, but I'm not holding my breath.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 10:30 PM) Good, that takes care of any qualifying offer concerns now that he changed teams. His path to the Sox is clear. I'll roll out the red carpet for ya Josh. Over his last 753 plate appearances, Willingham has put up a .209/.343/.381/.724 with a wRC+ of around 105. He's not an absolutely terrible hitter, but at this point in his career, he's best served hitting solely against lefties. He's also never been a good fielder either, so it'd basically be bringing him in to be a platoon partner at DH against lefties. Beyond that, he's going to be 36 next year too. Frankly, at least there was nostalgia for bringing back Konerko and employing him in that exact role. We can't really say that about Willingham. I think the Sox would be far better finding some other alternative.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Aug 13, 2014 -> 02:28 AM) Pretty dumb move by Robin putting Adam effing Dunn in right field. He can't play outfield. Ridiculous. It's a good thing Dunn basically won the game with his 2 run homer, but still, it's dumb because Robin did it and he loses all of our games for us. Well he tried to blow it in the first inning by calling for Jose Abreu to hit into a double play, but Jose didn't listen to him and hustled down the first base line.

QUOTE (soxfan49 @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 06:28 PM) I don't recall the year but I remember they were losing something like 10-0 after the first few innings against the Cubs. Wood or Prior hit Konerko in the head, he stayed in, and ended up hitting 2 homers. They ended up winning 15-11 I believe. Very close, off by 2 runs both times. Went down 8-0 after 3. Ended up winning 13-9. http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CH...200206280.shtml

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 02:46 PM) JJ Cooper ‏@jjcoop36 5m Rays' OF Josh Sale has to be running out of chances. Suspended all of last year by the club. Now 50 games by MLB for drug of abuse. In two drafts, the Sox and Rays have drafted players with the same last name. Even with Gordon having not been so hot, the Sox are 2-0 in that battle.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 02:01 PM) Lets talk about Konerko's 2003 season, just because... That homer he hit off Guardado was awesome. I remember freaking out in my living room at the time. Thomas came up the next inning, hit a long one foul and then hit a long one fair.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 01:40 PM) I think this thread has become kind of disrespectful to a sox legend and nobody can deny his status in sox lore. I think it is making sox fans look bad but I'm all for free speech too. Anybody agree? I think people are entitled to their opinion and I have seen nothing vulgar, offensive, nor disrespectful in this thread at all. Konerko will always be remembered fondly, but there is some disagreement in how great his numbers are. Compared to his contemporaries, he was a good, not great 1B, but he was [usually] a pretty solid rock in the middle of the lineup and he had some fantastic seasons and he had some insanely clutch and important hits in his career. He's a Sox legend, and I don't think anyone here is going to deny that.

QUOTE (Charlie Haeger's Knuckles @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 11:50 AM) The other thing to consider is that Bassett looks like a baseball player. He has "that" face. Baseball face. More than anything else, this is what I look for in a baseball player.

QUOTE (Tmar @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 11:45 AM) I liek chocolate milk funny, so do I

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 11:41 AM) Why is that? He was already put on waivers, the Cubs put a claim on him, and the Phillies pulled him back.

QUOTE (The Wiz @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 10:21 AM) Excuse me, where did I say any of that? I was just saying it shouldn't take gigabytes of data to prove something as simple as good offensive players will score runs and bad ones won't. Right, but people on here are upset and swear that if Robin constructed the lineup differently, the Sox would score a ton more runs. That's simply not true. Or they suggest it's a giant travesty that's costing the Sox a ton of runs when he has certain players (say, having someone like Leury Garcia leading off). It's really not. That's what I was getting at.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 10:12 AM) I've said it many times but your offense is going to struggle mightily when the run producer in the middle hits under .230. Butler will not do that and while we could use a lefty, I'd rather have good hitters then nothing. Billy Butler on this team is an upgrade over Adam Dunn. Is he a FA? If Sox made a move for him, they'd have to think he would rebound though because he has been flat out mediocre this year. So given the choice of Adam Dunn or Billy Butler for next year at DH, I'm taking Billy Butler. Now if money is significantly different you might get another answer but under zero scenario do I want Dunn around. Guy is a loser. The A's have primarily hit Donaldson and Moss 3-4. Their averages are .251 and .248. They have outscored the Angels (#2 in runs) by 24 runs this year. In fact, the A's only have 2 guys who have at least 196 plate appearances that are hitting better than .264. I think you just want productive hitters no matter how you can get them. Like I said, I'm not opposed to Butler, I just want the Sox to end up with a productive hitter.