witesoxfan

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 05:56 PM) Because the value of an established #2 starter, should one become available, is going to be prohibitive and if you take Quintana off the table, we likely wouldn't have enough. Clayton Richard, Aaron Poreda, Adam Russell, and Dexter Carter still does not seem prohibitive to me. Nor does Miguel Olivo, Jeremy Reed, and Michael Morse. Nor does Esteban Loaiza. Nor does Antonio Osuna, Jeff Liefer, and Rocky Biddle. These packages acquired Jake Peavy, Freddy Garcia, Jose Contreras, and Bartolo Colon. Given the improving state of the minor league system, the idea that trading for a #2 pitcher is prohibitive is absurd.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 06:37 PM) Next year- insert Max Scherzer in that #2 spot and were golden. Good god no

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 06:29 PM) It's like the college basketball Top 25. The in-season oscillations don't matter. In the end, it's how you pitch in events like the College World Series, just like Kentucky is playing now. In the end, the best talent usually shows up when it counts, the cream rises to the crop. Regular season games are ONE indicator, but far from the most accurate indicator or barometer. This is a perfect way to overdraft a person that just so happens to get hot at the right time. Jared Mitchell has been anything but good.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 04:52 PM) If you want to use analogies here, the better one is that Nieto is on probation, with hard conditions. And he'll be out of probation, if he makes it, around the same time Smith gets out of "jail". Flores got the same deal, and never made it work as a starter. Flores and Nieto aren't the same either, but the Rule V aspect and going straight from A+ are the same. Flores was a backup part-time in the majors, and spent some time in the minors, over a 5 year period and never made it stick. Meanwhile, other prospects passed him up as time went on, which could just as easily happen here. This opportunity is not a guaranteed ticket. Didn't Flores suffer a pretty serious injury? He was looking like a pretty solid player, and then the injury came and it was like his career was over.

I admittedly haven't watched any of these guys pitch, but reading this just reminds me so much of hearing about Brian Matusz coming out. Just from the sound of his repertoire I didn't like him, and while I was lucky, it's still very true. Here's a nice, if dated, read on Brian Matusz (with a comparison to Clayton Kershaw the prospect). http://www.baseball-intellect.com/college-...t-brian-matusz/

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 04:43 PM) Question: when you trade for a guy you got through the Rule V draft, what are you then allowed to do with them? How long are they allowed to be in the new team's minors before becoming eligible for the Rule V draft again? If you trade for a guy that was a Rule V draft, he is yours just as if it were any other ordinary trade. They did this with Jason Grilli about 10 years ago. In the case of Angel Sanchez last year, the Sox actually offered him back to the Angels, and they didn't want to pay the $25,000 to bring him back, so the Sox got to keep him for free.

QUOTE (Boogua @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 03:53 PM) People are disagreeing with this? Executives will make mistakes, but more evidence can help them limit their mistakes. I just don't believe this is fair to the elite talent. You are penalizing them because executives can't figure it out, and you may see injuries occur as a result of that which damage stock. It should be up to the player. If he feels he can improve his stock (Blake Griffin, Jared Sullinger, you name it) or he wants to stay in school (Marcus Smart), let him go. If not, let him go to the NBA - you can mention Thabeet and, say, Tobias Harris on this. Do you really think Thabeet would have gotten better with another year in school as opposed to the pros? Or do you think he would have played any worse? I bet he's still a top 5 draft pick the following season. 19 and one year removed from high school graduation seems perfect. You have tape of them in high school and a year of tape in college, plus the scouting combine and personal workouts too.

QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 04:03 PM) Yeah, I thought I remembered you posting something like this a week ago. Hopefully he works on it a bit, as he has too much talent to be so predictable at the plate. I think it was actually Eminor, but we're both relatively down on him. The talent is massive and hopefully working with Steverson and playing alongside Abreu can help correct that, but massive power potential doesn't do the team a lot of good in batting practice.

QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 03:43 PM) Couple of observations I've had this spring: Good: - Marcus Semien is going to be a great #2 hitter playing 2nd base for this franchise - Jose Abreu is going to make The Cell look very small in the summer - Danks seems to have much more confidence than he did this time last year - Adam Eaton reminds me of Nick Punto at the plate, only with the ability to hit the ball hard - Davidson should be MLB caliber very soon Bad: - Scott Downs looks to have lost quite a bit off his fastball - I'm not a fan of Avi's swing plane right now. Seems to be hitting everything on the ground. - Dunn still looks like he's never seen a 2 strike breaking pitch low and in That IS his swing plane. There's no right now about it. He has a career GB% of 57.1% at the MLB level.

QUOTE (Boogua @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 03:32 PM) Do you really want to go through all the highly drafted high schoolers? Those guys you mentioned aren't all that common. Wade was in college for 3 years (played 2). Hinrich and Collison were both pegged fine. So basically the good players will be good, the bad players will be bad, executives will make mistakes, and it doesn't matter how long these kids are in school. That seems to be the gist I'm getting from all of this. Is that far off?

QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 03:26 PM) Sad news. Also doesn't seem to be good for Jim Kelly. Sad. Yeah, it's been a rough 2 weeks for the Bills family. It's sad to think about, but they could probably lose the two most heralded people in franchise history, and Marv Leavy is no spring chicken either.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 03:20 PM) Some of them are. Some are riding pine, getting limited minutes and once the NBA season starts, not getting much practice time in. Sticking around a couple years or more didn't hurt Hakeem or Jordan or Magic or Bird. I don't think they would have been much better had they turned pro after they were freshman. Obviously this increases the chances of an NBA team not making a mistake, and that is what is all about, but there are a ton of underclassmen who make themselves eligible for the draft that never get drafted. This could ultimately help the college game as well. It will cost some players some money, but if they can play, they will eventually get paid. But not going to college at all definitely didn't hurt LeBron or Tracy McGrady or Kobe Bryant, and sticking around 1 year didn't seem to hurt Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, and Dwyane Wade. Meanwhile, Nick Collison and Kirk Hinrich both played 4 years at Kansas, so talent evaluators should have had them pegged perfectly, yet neither has been much more than a bit player throughout their careers.

Does anyone here believe that Marcus Smart improved his stock? I'm guessing the resounding answer is no. Why? His field goal percentage is up - both 2's and 3's - he's rebounding better, getting to the line more, dishing more assists, and turning it over less.

Well this is incredibly relevant to the discussion then http://deadspin.com/marcus-smart-did-the-r...t-go-1546498463

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 02:52 PM) The NFL will penalize the goalpost dunk next season Laaaaaaaaame The really should just penalize Jimmy Graham's dumbass when he hangs on the goalposts.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 02:25 PM) I'll go with 80. But with very little confidence - hard team to predict. Agreed. This team could go all 2012 Oakland A's or they could crash and lose 95-100 games again. I have no idea what to expect.

I said pre-season that I thought Paulino would be the 3rd best, but Ventura already thinks he's 2nd best. /green Yeah, breaks up the order, and it was a good point that when 2 lefties go in a row, Sale will be the 2nd.

Ralph Wilson Jr passed away today at 95. RIP.

Based on my revelation in the Tyler Flowers thread that Jose Quintana is similar to Mark Buehrle (sorta), I dub thee Quetzalcoatl Buehrlé

QUOTE (Charlie Haeger's Knuckles @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 01:33 PM) bolded above = plausible deniability. If that's the case, the only time in his career that MARK BUEHRLE was any thing more than "a #2 starter" was in 2001 and in 2007. 2013 Jose Quintana >>>>>> every year of Buehrle's career EXCEPT 2001 and in 2007. Everyone LOVES Mark Buehrle, including me. But somehow the year the Sox let him walk, they backfill the rotation with not one, but TWO lefthanded starting pitchers that ARE better than Buerhle - with both having ceilings to be even better than they currently are. Go Sox. This just isn't true though. While Quintana has put up better ERA numbers than Buehrle did, he also pitched in a much more potent offensive environment. Buehrle was putting up ERA-'s (league adjusted) for numbers in the 70-85 range and FIP-'s in the 80-90 range. Quintana has been at 89 and 85 for ERA- and 99 and 93 for FIP-. That isn't to say Quintana couldn't get there, but Buehrle was a pretty incredible pitcher for a long time for the White Sox. He is a really similar pitcher to Buehrle though. Doesn't have great, great stuff but does have some pop on the fastball and he shows enough with his other pitches to throw hitters off.

I'd take over for both.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 12:56 PM) It's likely going to take at least 2 full major league seasons for these pitchers to develop even if they are good. Anyone after Johnson we're talking 2017, just too long to wait when you have money. /facepalm The Sox have a great starter and a good starter already in the fold. Danks has looked better this spring and could be good this year. That's already 3 guys who can be good pitchers, and he's also signed through 2016. If Johnson develops well this year, we could be talking about 4 good pitchers in the rotation as of next year. This is on top of anything that Paulino or anybody else may do for them as well. You spin this from a pessimistic point of view quite often, and those scenarios are certainly possible. However, I think the likelihood of your scenarios acting out are just as likely as the idea that all of these guys will work out (and where you got the notion that anybody on here thought that, I don't know because no one has suggested that). I think the ultimate goal is to be pushing out a team that is expected to win 90 games in 2016. There's certainly a lot that can go wrong in between then and now, but the front office now at least has some chips it can use (either for the Sox or to trade for other pieces of that puzzle) moving forward.

78-84

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 12:12 PM) The reality is that Hahn probably negotiated all of those extensions that you are referring to. He has been the White Sox contract guy for years. The team got below market extensions from that entire list of pitchers, which exactly what was done with Sale and Quintana. Hahn was the reason the Sox were able to come to terms with Boras and Crede prior to him reaching free agency. Hahn has been around a long time, since 2002.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 25, 2014 -> 12:05 PM) Except Scherzer is not Captain Cheeseburger. He's more of an athlete, like Greinke (and yes, I realize for his size, CC still manages to move around a lot better than you'd expect). He takes extremely good care of himself...maybe not Nolan Ryan-like obsessive about training and conditioning, but he's known for being proactive. I do agree eight years is crazy for a pitcher. Even with Verlander last year, it already looked like he was losing his invincibility with all the rumors out there about diminished velocity from him and King Felix. Athlete or not, throwing overhand, especially as often and as hard as pitchers do, is not a natural motion and the body is not meant to withstand that sort of damage. If he has god given characteristics - unusually strong tendons, ligaments, and muscles or improved natural ability for his body to regenerate and repair itself - then it is, but there's really no way to test for that.