witesoxfan

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 04:57 PM) What evidence do you want. Is this a question or what. See, I can do it too. I mean, for fudge's sake, what evidence do you think I want? I'm a numbers guy. Maybe try and show why they are crater sized holes in the rotation. Be forewarned - you better be prepared as s***, because I consider a crater-sized hole in a rotation about the size of Jamie Navarro, and the Sox really haven't had one of those in about 15 years, even including the rotating "Mike Porzio" 5th starter days. QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 05:21 PM) Seeing the numbers out of AZ reinforces my belief that Hahn did not do enough to address the rotation this winter. It's a long season for pitchers when your home park is the Cell, if nothing else they needed an innings-eater. Also, it's an embarrassment to this rebuild that Axelrod was even invited to camp. AND THIS IS WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT. You are putting stock into Spring Training numbers. Randy Johnson almost consistently had an ERA of over 9 in Spring Training. If pitchers show velocity, control, and command, then managers and coaches do not care. Quit using Spring numbers to justify your argument because Spring numbers are f***ing meaningless. QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 10:36 PM) Can I ask what your career is? Where can you work to make a legitimate living and not learn how a business is run? JR is the head of an INVESTMENT GROUP that has invested in a team with the purpose of MAKING MONEY. It's like you think the Sox are run by literally just Jerry Reinsdorf sitting on a pile of gold with a bag of Fritos trying to decide the best way to blow his fortune. "Hmmmmmmmmm Marty wants to win 90 games, but.... NOOO! Only 82 games this year! You only get 40 gold coins for pitchers Rick! No more wins unless I SAY SO! I'm the boss!" Scrooge McDuck swimming in his piles of gold, goddamn him.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 11:14 PM) Turner had a 1.44 WHIP last year and a mediocre K rate. That's a top prospect? And did I read elite? Now way do I trade Johnson for him. Maybe Sanchez, but I wouldn't do it. We have surplus in the middle infield - use it wisely, like, perhaps, to trade for a nice catching prospect. Mind you, he did that as a 22 year old.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 04:20 PM) Danks, Johnson, and Paulino = crater-sized holes in the rotation. Thank you for your evidence. Here's mine, according to the Marty school of providing evidence Danks, Johnson, and Paulino ≠ crater-sized holes in the rotation.

It's also worth mentioning that Turner is arbitration eligible next year and out of options and he doesn't turn 23 until May 21st. He's incredibly young and there's plenty of room for him to still grow into his body and increase his velocity. On top of that, he throws a ton of ground balls, throws four pretty effective pitches, and he's ready to increase his innings total. I'm using top tier talent as a generality - he's a guy that can be a 2 or 3 in the rotation, but I would never consider him in the same class as a Gerrit Cole - but he could certainly be a valuable piece of a team and would absolutely be worth a stash as a long man and spot starter, even to the point of being worth a Viciedo. You are right in that some team may offer more or something more valuable to the Marlins, but it never hurts checking in.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 04:14 PM) Just a point that when it comes to the ability to acquire top tier talent the Sox should not be in the conversation unless they put Sale on the block. They also acquired Avisail, Eaton, and Davidson without giving up key long term cogs too, and I'd say those guys are all top tier talent too. The Sox have plenty of resources to acquire this top tier talent.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 04:06 PM) 'It would have been difficult for hahn not to have a "good" offseason. It's been anything but a positive spring for the Sox vaunted rotation depth. The rotation will be the biggest problem in this rebuild. It's dry, Arizona weather and the ball doesn't move a whole lot, plus these guys are getting back into shape, working on certain pitches and locations, and any number of other miscellaneous tasks. That you are putting actual stock into these numbers - which you clearly are - is the worst thing. If they carry this with them up north and the rotation looks rough come May or June, then yes, changes will probably have to be made. I'm not saying that holes are not possible, but right now, the rotation is full and there are no question marks as to who is pitching or the talent in the rotation itself. Frankly, I still think the offense is going to take the longest. They have young pieces, but there are plenty of other areas that could and likely will need improvement into the future. QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 04:07 PM) This was meant for eminor, right? No. The White Sox clearly had a great offseason. It was certainly possible for them to have a poor offseason. That didn't happen. I want to see you actually defend with evidence why the Sox offseason was poor or why there are holes in the rotation without just saying "crater-sized holes in the rotation" and "maybe we shouldn't pat Rick on the back." WHY do you feel that way?

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 04:00 PM) you're the one who thinks player track record doesn't matter when it comes to trades. It would be nice if you would stay on topic rather than turning this into a pissing match.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 03:54 PM) Odds are they get Gregorious for him. That would make sense for them. QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 03:57 PM) I think we know they get a better offer than Viciedo. I'm sure they will. This changes nothing from what I've said to you on this topic.

QUOTE (floridafan @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 03:35 PM) Eric Grabe was released today. It was fun while it lasted. Hope everyone here enjoys the upcoming season! Sorry to hear that. Give him our best wishes!

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 03:48 PM) If Turner is top tier talent, the White Sox do not have enough to trade for him without creating another hole. But the Marlins do not have leverage. If they don't want him on the major league roster, they'll lose him for absolutely nothing if they don't trade him. More than likely, teams will be willing to give up more than the Sox, but we don't know that yet. If your options are Dayan Viciedo or nothing, you are taking Dayan Viciedo.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 03:32 PM) Coupled with the crater-sized holes in the rotation that weren't addressed it seems the pats on the back for Hahn's offseason were overdone. Almost every publication has the Sox as one of the best, if not THE best, offseason in all of the majors. He was dealt a terrible hand and has turned it around in an accelerated manner. Catcher was tough, and speculation suggests that he really wanted McCann (actually, I think he said it or strongly implied it at one point this offseason), but the rotation is full, the Sox are stacked with talented relief arms, and they have surplus depth at almost all positions. No, the rotation looks fine. If you are basing a "crater-sized hole" based on Spring Training numbers, then that's your own problem because I can guarantee you the only numbers Ventura is paying attention to are miles per hour, total pitches, and innings pitched. He's also looking at location and command, but those aren't numbers.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 03:20 PM) What's wrong with the current rotation? Nothing. Adding top tier talent is never a bad thing.

Absolutely. This is the kind of arm you find room for on a staff, not hoping he slips through the cracks. You give up a nice prospect if you have to.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 11:39 AM) Regular? I'll go with 1st division player. The guy is going to hit 30+ bombs a year and play in the middle infield. I know as a Sox board many of us love to pretend that some of these Cubs prospects aren't exciting but I refuse to take part in it. Wite, this is by no means a shot at you, I'm just saying. I usually cringe in the Cubs thread because of the stuff I see. I tend to believe that as well, but with prospects, I want them to prove it at the MLB level before I fully buy in. QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 11:43 AM) from what I have read, Baez is pretty terrible defensively as well. His bat and athleticism will play in the outfield though too, so if he can't stick at 2B, he'll be OK in the end.

I don't think Schiano's an awful person. I think he's just a meathead/douche, although I guess that could be construed as him being an awful person.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 10:58 AM) Jack Cust had insane power and an atrocious K rate, and didnt last too long. Cust was also fat, slow, and terrible defensively. Baez plays 2B/SS and is 46 of 55 for his career in stolen bases. Baez should be a regular at the MLB level.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 09:02 AM) Using spring stats to really determine anything but bottom of the roster spot is silly. Even if you are facing Chris Sale and ripping him now, it means zilch. When the games count the best pitchers are a lot different than they are in March. Exactly. Not that Edwin Jackson is the model of success, but he threw 50+ pitches in a start earlier this spring, and all 50+ were fastballs. Renteria wasn't happy about it, but guys go out there right now trying to work on specific things. If they leave one fat, they don't care so long as they get their work in.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 09:47 AM) March Madness streams are pretty good. It is through CBS / NCAA. This. I was able to watch at work last year, and they even have a fake email screen that you can pull up to hide it if people walk by.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 09:40 AM) I don't know, I've always wondered that. I've always assumed that you use the park factors to dampen the linear weight values of each event, but I've never known how they actually weigh PT in in each park. Like does De Aza's line reflect 9 games at Comerica, for example. Not sure how precise they can actually get. Do you know, wite? I'm not entirely sure of the specifics, but I'm guessing that it's as specific as possible. The 9 games at Comerica, the 3 in Washington, and so on, but also how those parks play towards certain hitters. USCF gets a reputation as a place where it's hard to hit for a high average and doubles and triples, but easy for homers, but that's a misnomer. That information is absolutely true about right handed hitters, but lefties hit doubles and triples at a much higher clip, even above league average most years. My guess is that teams naturally shade towards left center because they believe guys will try and put it there (plus the wind will typically blow in that direction), which leaves a wide open gap for lefties in right center field, perfect for doubles and triples. Also, I'm guessing there's some of that jet stream effect that will push righties balls from center field to left center, putting a few more over the fence, while righties will go from right center to center, leading to more doubles and triples. http://www.fangraphs.com/guts.aspx?type=pf...13&teamid=0

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 20, 2014 -> 08:39 AM) Just FYI -- wRC+ is park-adjusted. Woo! What a great stat. http://www.fangraphs.com/library/offense/wrc/ Maybe it's just the malted hops in the brain this morning, but is that saying that had De Aza done that in San Diego, his wRC+ would be closer to 105 or 110?

The average splits in LF last year was .259/.323/.412/.735. As an example, De Aza was at .264/.323/.405/.728, so he's almost a perfect example of it. His wRC+ was 97, but that's weighted down because of USCF. It's safe to assume that's your average production out of left field. Tabata was better than that and can certainly still improve considering he's only 25. I think he's certainly a guy whose offensive production will be dependent upon his average, but I don't see splits of .280/.340/.410 as unlikely or unreasonable moving forward especially considering he was even better than that last year, and that's an extremely valuable player in the game today. Yes, I'd prefer elite type talent, but you have to have the pieces to acquire that. Come the 2014-15 offseason, with Tabata coming off a good season, you then have an additional piece that you can trade as well. Like I said, the price has to be right, and I have my doubts about that, but I have no problem bringing him in if it is.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Mar 19, 2014 -> 11:46 PM) How is the Sox defense this spring? No diss on Robin, but let's say our team is horrible defensively again and full of mental errors on the basepaths again. Do you think he'd be in trouble job-wise, considering the Sox have a lot of young players? I just hope the Sox make it clear early in the season they are not going to be the patsies of the Central and are gonna show some fight. In fact, maybe a bench clearing brawl early on vs. KC or Cleveland to set the tone? I know some people on here don't like baseball fights, so I will say that in advance lest you think I'm pulling a troll. I just want some fight in our team this year and I want to see good, fundamental baseball under Robin. Considering Ventura just signed an extension, I'd say he has job security. And bench clearing brawls are the worst. They are pointless and just end up with players getting hurt and suspended.

In the low minors, Adam Lopez is absolutely the most intriguing arm for me to watch this year.

QUOTE (sammy esposito @ Mar 19, 2014 -> 03:04 PM) With Abreau the heir apparent to Paulie K it doesn't look like Andy Wilkins has or ever had much of a chance at first. We have went through all the 3rd basemen tryouts; then why hasn't Andy been given his chance at 3rd? Is he a liability there ? I think he might be the best hitter at that position now. Guys get moved to 1B from 3B at a young age because they are terrible defensively. He'd likely be as bad as Braun at 3B if he were to be played there.

I should say, this is all cost prohibitive. If he came cheap, absolutely I would, and I'd prefer him over Danks. I doubt that's what Pittsburgh has in mind though.