witesoxfan

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 31, 2014 -> 08:54 AM) Derek Jeter is a first ballot HOFer who has multiple WS rings and was the captain of the Yankees for years. He has conducted himself with nothing but class. The hatred he gets is beyond confusing to me. He is exactly what you would want your sports heroes to be. This is perfect.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Mar 31, 2014 -> 09:15 AM) Anybody know if MLB Extra Innings has a free preview to start the year again? On the West Coast for a few more days so was hoping to watch today They've done it like 6 or 7 straight years, so I don't see why it would be any different this year. Usually first week of the season and first week after the ASB.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Mar 29, 2014 -> 06:49 AM) That is why I suggested Scherzer for that #2 starter spot. He will only be 29 at the beginning of next year. If that is 'too old' for this team, then they better trade Danks soon. He will be 30 next year- ANCIENT! So, if given the choice, you would have given Johan Santana an 8 year, $200 million deal when he was entering his age 30 season? He was a multiple Cy Young award winner and probably the best pitcher in baseball. Frankly, he was a better pitcher than Max Scherzer was entering that period. If so, you'd be entering year 5 of the contract - only halfway through - and you'd have a Johan Santana that is topping out at 83 on the gun. That's how fast pitchers can degrade and why the Sox have never invested a large amount of money in them. That's not going to suddenly change with Max Scherzer, who just so happens to be a Boras client on top of it all. QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Mar 29, 2014 -> 12:02 PM) I created a thread to spark some conversation about the future of our rotation. Will we get Max? I don't know.. But it's fun to discuss the possibilities with some of my favorite Sox posters. We are not always going to agree with things, but I sure do value your constructive thoughts. Is it funny? I don't think so. And I also wouldn't say "the sox will NEVER" sign a certain player. For instance, if Max has an average season- his cost will come way down and the Sox can come in low with an offer. I cannot wait to start watching some meaningful baseball. Especially with our young pitching. The Sox will not sign Scherzer. Again, here are your 3 rough outlines of what can happen (there are more specifics that can happen, but it generally falls into these 3 categories): 1) Scherzer is healthy, has a great year, and is primed for a huge payday in free agency, somewhere around 8 years, $200 mill. The Sox don't want him. 2) Scherzer is healthy, has an OK year, and is primed for a huge payday in free agency, somewhere around 5-8 years at $20-25 mill a year with incentives and options and opt outs. The Sox don't want him. 3) Scherzer is not healthy, it doesn't matter how he performs, and he's looking at a 1 year prove it deal in the range of $10-20 mill. He either performs really well and bolts for a big offer the next year, or he doesn't and it ultimately hurts the team at the current cost. The Sox don't want him. The Sox will never sign Max Scherzer - with the added qualifier - so long as Scott Boras as his agent.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 04:51 PM) I would love Yovani G. However, he has a club option that the Brew Crew will likely pick up. They could, and I admit I did not see that the first time, but they also can get more value for him if they trade him this year than if they trade him in the offseason or next season.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 03:11 PM) And around and around it goes, where it stops, nobody knows. Let's face it, most GM's probably view Quintana as closer to a 3 (possibly 4 type on a really deep playoff team like the Cards), and they're not going to give up someone like a Wacha or Shelby Miller for him. They might part with a Piscotty, Kelly or Carlos Martinez, but then we're losing a cost-controlled player whose upside is a 2 and who definitely will be a good return of investment with his current team-friendly contract even if he falls off to a 3/4 type. So the White Sox go ahead and make that trade...not for Lance Lynn, who we really would want the most, but for someone who could be a 2/3 starter, but just as likely could end up out of the rotation in a year. WHICH WOULD INEVITABLY LEAD TO....Piscotty, Kelly, Carlos Martinez, Beck, #3 pick aren't ready yet and need two years, therefore we need to trade Chris Sale now. What the...I don't even...why would you spend time finding trade possibilities with the Cardinals? That is the absolute last team I would approach about trading Quintana, which is a ridiculous proposition in the first place.

So was he optioned or outrighted? There seems to be some sense of confusion on that front.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 12:52 PM) Lol. Once again people like to bring up players who were productive before they got drafted. Smith won the Outland trophy his last year in college. But Clowney was a productive player before he got drafted. As a sophomore, he had 13 sacks and 23.5 TFLs. As a junior, there was a combination of extra blockers on him (hence, Kelcy Quarles 9.5 sacks as a DT), doing his best to prevent injury (because he was a teammate of Marcus Lattimore who was considered such an explosive runner that there were talks of him as a top 10 pick even in this day and age), plus he still had 11.5 TFL.

A name that comes to mind immediately as a player the Sox could show interest in this year, ala Freddy Garcia in 2004, is Yovani Gallardo, depending on how his velocity looks this year as it's been decreasing in recent years. Obviously, you prefer players with a lot of team control left, but those players are going for a premium at this point. Gallardo, who just turned 28, is a guy who was supposed to be a stud and has fallen off a bit in recent years. He's still always had really good stuff and could be a guy that becomes available for trade this year if/when the Brewers fall out of contention. Given his numbers, he could be a guy that re-signs for around that magic $12 mill a year or so, and he fits the profile of a #2/#3 starter that could be used to solidify the depth of the rotation. His profile as a power sinker, ground ball pitcher who also strikes guys out fits what the Sox are looking for too. Given the Sox dearth of pitching plus numerous other interesting prospects (and even Gillaspie as a possible throw-in type), the two sides could easily make a deal.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 12:15 PM) Is he really the value you want at a #1? A guy with motivation issues who can be a one trick pony? Sure didn't hurt Bruce Smith.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 10:40 AM) Sorry, I was referring to the #10 rank on mlb.com earlier in that post. Less so at 10, but more in the 15-20 range, you are guessing and hopeful. You take the most talented guy you can draft, and this kid seems like he's brimming with it. Plus, if he's willing to sign for a below slot value, it makes him more attractive in that 8-12 range as someone you can bring in and allocate more funds later on. No, I don't want the Sox to draft him unless he falls to the 2nd, but there are plenty of reasons to draft him at 10 or so. The #10 overall prospect? That I'd strongly disagree with.

I wanted to bring this up in here because of the discussion that has taken place - I asked Dan a question about the character of players and how it factors in to their evaluation of a player and if they quantify it on scouting reports, and after going through how important it is and the process they go through, he mentioned Adrien Nieto by name and mentioned that Marco had spoken to teammates, scouts, instructors, and coaches regarding his character and they were impressed with him the entire way. In fact, from what Dan implied, it seemed they had him in mind the entire time for their Rule V pick.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 09:48 AM) David Wells, 2001 They traded for David Wells.

What I read between the lines for that #3 pick is that it is going to be a pitcher. Frankly, it doesn't pay to have a scout watch every single game for hitters, even if you get a better scouting report, simply because there are going to be times they tee off on lesser competition. You want to see how they do against the good pitchers. The Sox have scouted every game of their top 5. That is extremely possible wit pitchers. Also, I took it very much that they've done their initial homework and they've narrowed that #3 pick down to five potential guys.

QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 09:33 AM) If someone doesn't draft Bridgewater because he had a bad pro day they should be fired on the spot. Mike Mayock still says the best pro day he ever saw was Jamarcus Russell. More than anything, I think, a bad pro day for a QB makes you ask yourself why he had a bad pro day. The coaches present said he was really nervous and anxious for the whole thing and that could be a contributor to it, but it's not a good thing that he's not performing when nervous. I saw another report that indicated it was cold, but again, you'll have to play in cold weather in the NFL. Rotoworld posted a blurb about Teddy's off-target rate being the best among draft eligible QBs last year at 11.9%. Mettenburg was 2nd and there was a slew of them in the 12.5% range. Johnny Football's was at 14.9%. It seems like QBs are almost a crapshoot these days.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 12:15 AM) Recent Sox history tells us differently. Win games and make the playoffs or be ignored I'm not saying they're going to draw 2.25 mill this year, but I think fans will be more interested this year than they were last year. Last year was awful. To that point though, you're right - if they go out and play like a team that's not going to win 70 games, fans won't watch. I know I will be tuning in a lot more this year and might even get the MLB.TV package.

I think the top 3 QBs are set, but with Carr in the top 3 now and Teddy falling out. I still really like Teddy, but as a QB in a pretty well controlled environment, you can't NOT tear up your pro day. Unless he really impresses someone in a private workout, I think he's falling out of the 1st.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 28, 2014 -> 08:52 AM) Just to stress....it's going to be extremely difficult to get any healthy, successful, prime-aged starter at "a fair cost" on the free agent market. That's just not what the FA market is built to do. I can't think of the last time the Sox signed a free agent top of the rotation starting pitcher though. It was probably Jamie Navarro, though that's stretching the definition of the phrase top of the rotation. I can recall several instances where they traded for one though, and it was (almost) always at a fair cost.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Mar 27, 2014 -> 09:27 PM) I wouldn't go higher than 150M for 7 years for sure. If teams start bidding out of control than forget about it. I just don't think he will get as much money as people anticipate. I do think Hahn will be in the running for Max... at least until the bidding gets out of control. And if it does, than you were all right- he will not sign with us. He just turned down 6/$144, which is $24 mill a year, so why would he accept a deal that pays him $21.4 mill a year with an extra year? He is said to want 8 years anyways. There are three rough scenarios that will play out here. 1) Scherzer is healthy, has a great year, and is primed for a huge payday in free agency, somewhere around 8 years, $200 mill. The Sox don't want him. 2) Scherzer is healthy, has an OK year, and is primed for a huge payday in free agency, somewhere around 5-8 years at $20-25 mill a year with incentives and options and opt outs. The Sox don't want him. 3) Scherzer is not healthy, it doesn't matter how he performs, and he's looking at a 1 year prove it deal in the range of $10-20 mill. He either performs really well and bolts for a big offer the next year, or he doesn't and it ultimately hurts the team at the current cost. The Sox don't want him. Logistically speaking, there is no way the Sox should have any interest in Max Scherzer. QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 27, 2014 -> 09:56 PM) Adding a top-of-the-rotation starter trumps any need in my opinion. Zero interest in Scherzer though. When it comes to starting players, I don't want to say any particular needs trumps any other - it's a need for a reason. Still, I agree with the general premise that, if you can get another top of the rotation at a fair cost, you pull the trigger without worrying about other potential positions of need.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 27, 2014 -> 11:41 AM) Teams that lose 99 games should lose money. If you are bad in other business, you tend to lose money. $3 million isn't too bad of a hit, considering they made close to $20 million the year before. Supposedly, their TV ratings were second-worst in baseball. A lot of this makes sense, and frankly, even if the team loses 90 games, because it's new faces and younger players with actual talent, I think you are going to see more people show some interest.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Mar 26, 2014 -> 04:46 PM) At this point in time I would like to see Semien as our super sub guy. He can play three infield positions. He has a high ceiling I think. Keppinger was injured granted but I think he is expendable. Beckham haters can hate all they want but Gordo is an excellent 2Bman. He has gold glove potential and will contribute with the bat Marcus Semien will never be the super sub guy unless it's down the stretch in a pennant race. He is far too talented and his development would be stunted if he was a super sub guy. I know you think that Gordon Beckham is suddenly going to figure out how to be a great baseball player after 5 seasons and close to 2500 plate appearances, but I choose to call a spade a spade at this juncture. Beckham is a mediocre 2B who is not going to be in the organization next year, so I feel they may as well run with Semien. Instead - and I have no problem with this - they will use Semien to start the year, roll with Beckham once he gets healthy, and they will attempt to trade him for a bag of balls shortly thereafter. And no, Gordon Beckham is not an excellent 2B. He does not have gold glove potential and he is not very good with the bat. Hawk may tell you otherwise, but common sense, numbers, and my own eyes tell me he is not very good. He seems like a cool dude though.

QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Mar 26, 2014 -> 04:22 PM) I would to see the Packers trade up and get Mack. They would probably only have to trade away about 15 picks. Hahaha. I watched some film of Mack and said "Sweet, this is the one defender I could really get behind for the Bills, and he's a hometown kid to boot!" Yeah, too bad he's probably going like 6 picks ahead of them. Sammy Watkins is an absolute stud and the clear #1 receiver in this draft, and the Rams could really, really use, but there's no way they can stay at 2, is there? You are going to have 4 out of Clowney, Watkins, Mack, Robinson, and Bortles will be available. Some team is going to give them two 1st rounders plus a 2nd, right?

Gotta hope that Semien can take the job and run with it for a while.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 26, 2014 -> 02:24 PM) There are no comparable players to Abreau, but that doesn't mean he is without risk or even less risky than the pitchers above. Jimenez went for ~30% less. If he busts it's less of a problem than if Abreau does and isn't that what anti-spending guys are preaching. Save Chairman Reinsdorf's money! Jimenez being less of a problem as a $50 million bust is like saying losing one leg is less of a problem than losing two legs. At the end of the day, it's still a pretty big f'ing problem.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 26, 2014 -> 11:07 AM) Isn't the best time to spend money when the team has a young core. They did, and they were willing to spend more. McCann got a ton of money. Had the Sox signed him for that, I'd have been OK with it with the caveat that I thought it was a bit too much, but overall OK. They were in on Tanaka until the end and I'm OK with the effort they made in attempting to sign him. Slightly disappointed he ended up elsewhere, but I'm not upset they didn't get him. They did sign Abreu. But you don't just spend money to spend money. Had they brought in AJ Burnett at $16 mill, I would have been very upset.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 26, 2014 -> 12:18 PM) This board is so concerned with JR checking account balance. I just wonder, what if the Yankees or Dodgers needed a 1st baseman and Abreu's price went up, what would have been the cutoff money-wise before his current can't miss, can't wait to see him in the middle of the line up would have change to the "he's never faced a pitch in the major leagues, he's not worth it, maybe when the team is a little better you could spend the money". It's a natural human reaction to justify why someone didn't sign someone with "you," but had he gotten $80-90 million over 6 years, I think that's about your gray area for that. Anything north of $90 mill or so, people are wondering why he's getting a contract that big when the track records of Cubans is solid but shaky and the biggest previous one was Puig's $42 million. There are a lot of other considerations in it too. He's still young enough and just entering his prime. At what cost would Sox fans have been OK with signing Matt Garza? For me, it is probably 3 years, $30 million or something like that, but that wasn't possible because the Brewers wanted him more. Had the Sox signed Garza for that price, I would have been upset. Either way, I don't think the board is worried so much about ownership's checking account balance, but rather that we have stable expectations for what the payroll usually is, who they will expand it for, what saving will do for the future of the team, and how much they will be able to spend moving forward. If they had signed one of those starters for $14 mill for 1 year, then that's $14 mill they can't spend next year (or even this year in picking someone up at the deadline), it's a draft pick that they lose that they can't use or trade in the coming years, and it's development lost for other starting pitching in the system when the team isn't expected to be highly competitive (meaning they will put a roster out there that they hope will compete, but it will likely fail by the end) and there are plenty of major league ready arms at which the Sox want to get a good look.