witesoxfan

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 08:11 PM) Will it be fair to compare the return the Cubs get for Samardzija to the return the Sox got for Santiago? No, because Samardzija is a better pitcher

There's no way I'm taking Hector Sanchez. He was OK in the minors, but sometime during his jump over AA, the dude forgot how to take a walk, and his CS% is pretty weak.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 06:55 PM) It's not that I don't like the trade it's just that it's disappointing that Santiago didn't net them more. This rebuild is going to take some time if they only make incremental improvements in trading the few assets they have. I want to see what we get out of Eaton first. It could be incremental, but it could ultimately be a significant improvement too. The idea that they are going after a 3B is nice to know. That is an area where a significant improvement should not be difficult to find.

No, not at all /79th post of the day

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 06:53 PM) I know it's early, but has there been a Hahn trade in which it looks like we clearly won? The Hector Santiago trade

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 06:44 PM) The problem is in the tweet, Law was thinking again. Avi will be just fine in RF this season for the Sox. I have my concerns with Garcia too. I know he has power, but I want to see that power legitimately translated into games. Hitting 1 or 2 long home runs just doesn't do it for me. I think he's going to be a good hitter, but to be a really valuable piece for the Sox, he's going to have to start hitting the ball off and over walls and not just landing it in front of outfielders.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 06:36 PM) Fixed. Ha, I was mostly giving s***. Like I said, I've always liked Santiago, but view him as more of a 3/4 right now with potential to move up, remain where he is, or fall by the wayside, and, unlike most players, I think his will be more extreme.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 06:28 PM) Don't be pissing in my cheerios man. Not cool. Ha just being reasonable

QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 06:31 PM) I don't advocate this for opening day 2014, but...Marcus Semien is clearly that player I didn't see many of the games, but did he show sufficient range on any of the plays you saw of him at the end of the year? I know he's played a lot and prefers to play SS, but you have to be able to cover a ton of ground.

Careful throwing the word "we" around

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 05:57 PM) I read yesterday the Mets are looking for a SS, some kinda trade involving Ramirez for Murphy could make sense. Just a thought. Edit: How about ADA and Gillespie for Murphey? Why would they want Gillaspie? Trading Ramirez for Murphy really doesn't make sense either. They have no need to spend a lot on a SS unless it's a significant upgrade due to the presence of Ruben Tejada, and the Sox don't have an adequate replacement for Ramirez at SS, unless you want to see Leury Garcia play there.

You deal him now, you aren't going to get anything other than a busted prospect. I'm keeping him.

You guys, the Mariners aren't trading Seager.

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 06:15 PM) I'd still like to move Dayan back to 3B. Forget UZR or DRS or Tango numbers...let's use good old fielding percentage, shall we? Viciedo, in his one full season at the position in 2009, had an .894 fielding percentage. It improved slightly the next year, but was down to .897 in his brief time there in the majors. He is an absolutely brutal defensive 3B.

Ultimately, regardless of the return, I come back to this thought - the Sox had 4 MLB starters with 2-3 more coming up the pipeline. You aren't going to deal Sale without a monstrosity of a package and, frankly, I don't think the odds of a deal for Sale have changed all that much. If the Sox are overwhelmed, they will move him; otherwise, there's no need for it at this point in time. That leaves you with Quintana, Danks, and Santiago. Quintana has been a revelation, but he also took steps forward last year. His ground ball rate went down slightly while his flyball rate went up slightly, but they are both still within solid, acceptable levels. His strikeout rate increased by 2 per 9 IP and he actually decreased his walk rate, so his overall K/BB increased by 1 (from 1.93 to 2.93). That sort of efficiency led him to strand a few more runners than he had the previous year while allowing him to throw more innings, averaging just more than 6 innings a start. The other nice thing about that is that his IP/GS increased in the second half, going from 6 exactly to 6.14. It's not a significant increase, but it's an increase. Further, his K/9 and BB/9 both improved in the second half as well. On top of that, his velocity increased across the board last year except for 1 pitch - his changeup, which lost half a MPH. I don't think people are going to complain about that. Quintana seems to be rapidly evolving into a #2 type of pitcher. He has significant value on the market, but probably moreso to the White Sox. He wasn't going anywhere without 2-3 legitimate prospects being included. Danks is coming off an injury-recovery season. He's owed something like $13 million per season over the next 3 years. Frankly, the idea of getting anything other than a team taking his contract off the Sox hands is ludicrous. He's also a nice bounce back candidate. He showed respectable velocity on the year (89.3), featured fantastic control, and exhibited a good ground ball rate. If his HR/9 regresses to the mean (16.8% HR/FB, up from 10.8% for his career), that immediately cuts runs from his ERA and adds outs. Further, if his stuff continues to recover, we could be talking about a high 3's ERA kind of guy with an increased strikeout rate. Considering you are going to get no value for him, keeping him is the right call with money in the budget. Rienzo isn't going to get you any sort of value - he's not that valuable of a prospect - and Erik Johnson and Hector Santiago probably have similar ceilings, but Erik Johnson has the advantages of a. throwing from the right side and b. having 6 years prior to free agency as opposed to 4. It doesn't make sense to trade either. That brings up Santiago. Santiago exhibits the ability to miss bats, as he throws multiple off speed pitches but shows off good velocity. That velocity is what throws hitters off. On that note, it's worth mentioning that his velocity this year decreased by one to one and a half MPH. If the Sox believe that to be a trend, that's reason enough to get rid of him. Beyond that, even when given the ability to start full time, in the minors, Santiago still did not pitch deep into games - he made 23 starts in the minors in 2011 and averaged [drumroll] 5 and a half innings per start. When starting in the majors, he has not been able to get to 6 innings. That is an incredibly vital number to get to because it cuts down on the usage of your relievers by an incredible amount - getting out of the 6th with ease means they aren't warming up or coming in during the 4th, 5th, or 6th innings when you get yourself in trouble. I'm sure this was something both Ventura and Cooper preached ad nauseum to him, and there were just no drastic changes made. Consider that he made 11 starts in the second half and threw 61.2 innings. His strikeout rate decreased in the second half from 9.38 to 6.71. His walk rate increased from 4.08 to 4.88. He started allowing more hits. His WHIP was 1.62, yet somehow, some way, he managed to put up a 3.94 ERA in that time frame. Tell me, do you want to sit here and tell me that a guy with a K rate under 7, a BB rate near 5, and a WHIP of 1.62 deserved to put up an ERA of 3.94, or do you believe he got lucky? I know my answer to that one. If the Sox wanted to get value for a starting pitcher, all roads led to Santiago. I like the kid and think he's going to be a good middle of the rotation guy, but I think your talking about a guy who compares favorably to guys like Jorge De La Rosa, Jonathan Sanchez, and Oliver Perez - good stuff, suspect control, and if they can reign it in, they're good; if not, it will unravel. Getting a guy with the type of contact, patience, and speed of Eaton for Santiago is great for the long-term prosperity of the White Sox.

Really, the Sox took half a season to look at Brandon Jacobs and saw nothing they liked. They moved him.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 04:53 PM) Man that's pretty bad. Jacobs isn't the greatest but still a meaningful prospect. I assumed it was an A ball pile of crap. A bad deal even worse, slightly. There is also talk that he's a young Lenny Dykstra, yet you seem to be avoiding those. The fact is we don't know what we have in him yet. Opinions are mixed all across the board. I'm happy they've made this sort of move to at least attempt to improve the team. Also, Brandon Jacobs hit .237/.291/.327/.618 in 176 plate appearances with the Barons, striking out 50 times in 176 PAs. For his minor league career, he's at .262/.335/.434/.769 with a 25.4% K-rate. Calling him a meaningful prospect is like calling Ryan Meaux a meaningful prospect.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 07:27 AM) Mark Prior has retired. Most towel strikeouts in history

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 04:48 PM) "WHY DON'T WE DO THIS MORE OFTEN BOYS???" I bet they wish they could have the GM Meetings 5 times a year Also, Dipoto should find a tailor. Jesus is that shirt gigantic.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 04:37 PM) I love the picture from the hotel room. I'm imagining them getting s***faced at night and making off the wall trade proposals, GMs running from room to room with drinks in hand and scantily clad women. "You take that shot of Fireball over there and I'll think about dealing Reed." "WHY DON'T WE DO THIS MORE OFTEN BOYS???" I bet they wish they could have the GM Meetings 5 times a year

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 04:28 PM) Is it march yet? Thankfully no, because this team could still use a lot of improvements.

I have no idea what he's like, but an interesting name that I saw in the O's system was Michael Ohlman. He was an 11th round pick in 2009. Was busted at the beginning of the year for a drug of abuse - probably weed - and suspended 50 games. He came back and tore it up after his suspension, and put up a .313/.410/.524/.934 in A ball this year. He was also just added to the 40-man to protect him. Again, I'm assuming he's worth more than De Aza, but that's the type of deal I'd look to make.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 03:30 PM) So you are good settling with Rienzo/Paulino??? I would rather sign a vet Paulino IS a vet.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 03:08 PM) I wouldn't give up Viciedo for him when Viciedos stock is low and Browns is inflated. I think a Dunn trade is on the horizon. I don't think Brown's value is going down though. If the Phillies are down on him, then I believe his value is low right now. He does have the potential to be a 30-40 homer guy, but he's also got potential to fall flat on his face and be barely anything more than a platoon player. Thus, I don't want to give up a ton for him, but I'd give up some. That is, I'd do so if there were room for him. This is also about the one instance where I'm OK with taking on a lot of Dunn's salary - if the Sox can find a significant upgrade.

Saw the idea in another thread, and we're trying to keep these kinds of things separate. What say you, Soxtalk? How much is he worth?