witesoxfan

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 09:57 PM) I disagree. From reading what some have said, they are either a). unobjectively against trading Sale, b).don't trust Sox to develop any prospect, or c). expect Mike Trout back in return. Do you expect them to make Sale available? That decreases their leverage. If someone wants to talk, the Sox will listen, but they won't make counter offers. There's no need. They have an incredibly young and valuable piece on hand. If someone wants to make an offer, the Sox are not going to say "No, we won't listen." They are going to say "Thanks, we'll get back to you after we've had time to discuss." If it gets to a tenuous point of negotiations where the Sox might actually consider it (read: a team is offering 4-5 legitimate prospects), then the Sox may begin making counter offers in an attempt to draw out everything they can. Until that point, they have no need to say he's available or that they are willing to negotiate. I expect that Sale is unavailable, that they are still willing to listen to offers, but do not expect them to move him. Reinsdorf has said virtually the exact same thing.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 08:27 AM) Because he's been in the minors for 5 years and has only hit moderately well one year. Yes he was signed out of High School but with the 3rd pick in the Rule 5 draft - I suspect there is a better option out there who could build more value in our system. He's also had one good year in the past one. Sometimes young players, especially catchers, take a while to develop and, in Cubans' cases, can occasionally suffer from bouts of culture shock. He's grown acclimated, he was moved up, he has shown power and the ability to draw a walk, he wasn't terribly old for his level, and his CS% isn't bad. If the Sox feel that his bat can handle MLB pitching and he can handle the pitching staff, then there is no harm in bringnig him in and giving him a chance. His OPS was more than 100 points higher than league average. Like I said, if the Sox feel he is the right guy, then bring him in; if not, they won't. If he doesn't work out, then send him back to Washington. There's no risk.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 11:27 PM) So does this take Webb/Petricka out of next years pen? No, this move was made with the intention of Paulino starting. The Sox have indicated they expect him ready for day 1, but he had a set back in his rehab last year, so it may be closer to May 1st. Either way, I think this move is more of an indication that the Sox plan on moving Santiago/Danks/Quintana or starting Johnson in the minors rather than any sort of effect on the bullpen. Hahn seemed to indicate that they felt the option was the key to the deal.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 12:00 AM) Pass. Why? If the scouting department likes him over Carlos Perez or any other Rule 5 eligible catcher, then bring him in. There's next to no risk involved. Best case scenario is that you get a starter and perhaps a very good starter out of the process. Worst case scenario is that you return them back and you're out $25K, which is chump change for a major league team.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 09:13 PM) He didn't pitch more innings with Rockies because they released him. They basically released Jeremy Guthrie too, who also turned into a good pitcher for the Royals. I trust the Royals more.

I think this is going to play out exactly as Dick Allen said. Nothing is likely to happen, but if Sale is gone, Sox fans are going to get over the the loss of Sale rather quickly because the return is going to be astronomical.

QUOTE (dayan024 @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 04:46 PM) Chuck Garfien ‏@ChuckGarfien 58m White Sox were close to trading one of their pitchers but the other team chose to acquire a position player instead. Mere speculation, but I'm thinking this is the A's and Michael Choice

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 04:39 PM) 25 year old lefty with 30 HR power for our #3 starter, a replaceable bull pen arm, and a CF who can't play CF that we all are trying to replace anyway is too much though? Are you just against trading a pitcher in general? If not what are you really expecting back in return for a guy like Santiago? I think Brown's incredibly overrated. He's good against righties, but much of that power came from one hot stretch. Outside of May, he hit 15 homers. That's also a very talented #3 starter with a lot of service time remaining, a good bullpen arm with a lot of service time remaining, and a CF who can, in fact, play CF but not particularly well for a left handed bat who can't play in the field and can't hit lefties. I can spin too. I'd start out by offering merely Santiago for Brown, straight up. I'd have a bit of wiggle room, but I would not give up 3 players for him.

QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 03:02 PM) I suspect Hahn will ask any team wanting sale to pick up Danks and Dunn. That'll shut up most teams. This would be about the absolute worst, worst, worst thing you could do if you are going to trade Chris Sale. You need to load up on prospects if you trade him. Adam Dunn is a free agent after this year and John Danks is still a good pitcher who was in his first year back from injury. What are you going to spend that money on anyways? Maybe you can do that with Santiago or Quintana and get away with it, but it's just not smart to do with Sale.

QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 02:51 PM) Like that makes him a selfish dick? #12 is his normal number. Why wouldn't he want it? But he's also deferring to another veteran, and someone who his new team would like to keep. And on top of that, he's decided to honor his FRIEND if his normal number is not available. It's cool. That doesn't make this a class act.

He has been terrible in his career as a reliever.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 02:31 PM) Is this an ode to our FO's use of sabermetrics or their love for power arms? Probably both.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 02:23 PM) So 40 man is full now with Bellasario and Paulino, right? Not if they signed him to a minor league contract, which is a distinct possibility.

Nice signing, love his arm

I moved into the top 10. Suck it

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 11:54 AM) Agreed and talks would start with Bradley, Skaggs and Davidson. Or forget it. The DBacks have already said they aren't trading Bradley, so I guess we can just forget this. Of course, the Sox have said they aren't trading Sale, yet we're still talking about that too.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 11:08 AM) Tommy John still has the "record" for most wins post-surgery. OK, I don't understand the point of this. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? If you disagreeing, using the number of games he won is pretty terrible considering he probably holds the record for most losses too. He threw in 405 games and starter 382 after the surgery. He pitched a lot, which goes to show how effective it is as a surgery.

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Dec 8, 2013 -> 12:40 PM) He's 30 years old, and speed usually doesn't age well. This is is said all the time but really is not true. If anything, speedy, athletic players age better than your big, 1 dimensional sluggers, but really, it's a case by case basis.

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 10:50 AM) Or Sale could blow out his elbow, something that some people think is inevitable and we passed on several cornerstone players and have nothing to show for it. Would that set the franchise back five years? Then we shouldn't have so much invested in one player, we need a better team. Tommy John surgery is incredibly successful now a days, so no, it would not. The most it would set it back would be 2 years, but he could blow it out now, come back in 2015, and be ready to go while the Sox continue developing minor league players. Also, they barely have anything invested in Sale. And just because you have a team that has limited talent does not mean you should trade him to bring more talent in. There are a zillion ways to bring talented into the organization. As of right now, you have one of the best young pitchers in the game. If you keep him, and the rest of your pitching staff is good, you are suddenly a lot closer than anyone else thought possible and you care competing by 2015. I don't see any way a deal is going to get done.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 10:34 AM) How would trading one pitcher off a roster of a team that lost 99 games possibly set that team back 5 years? Lets not get carried away. Sale pitches once every 5 days. I wouldn't trade him unless blown away, but all the rebuilders if they did trade him for prospects, would get their wish. The team would still be crappy, but the farm system probably goes to top 10. If the pitchers brought back by the White Sox do not develop, you are talking about a rotation of Quintana, Santiago, Danks, Johnson, and Rienzo, or whatever. They have 2 hitters they feel strongly about in the future. At that point, with the Sox having pieces that aren't that great going forward in the pitching staff, what is the point of keeping Jose Abreu? May as well trade him and maximize value. Maybe 5 years is a bit extreme, but it could just as easily set the Sox back and hurt them as it could move them foward and help them.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 10:23 AM) Don't forget the #3 pick...Lets say its Hoffman....~3 years from now we could then be looking at... Bradley-24 Quintana-28 Delgado- 27 Johnson-26 Hoffman-24 That pitching staff, with a much improved offense, because of the Sale trade, could put us into great position to contend. Still got guys like Santiago, Rienzo, Beck, Bassit, Danish, and Snodgress who can be traded or used to max out the bullpen. Or it could set the Sox back about 5 years too.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 09:36 AM) ^Also the only team that can make me want to do a Sale deal is the Dodgers. They're f***ing crazy, they might empty out their farm & give up Adrian Gonzalez at $5M per eating the remainder. Who knows. We'd need some team to do something STUPID and they're easily the #1 target for that kind of outcome. Why would you want Adrian Gonzalez?

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Dec 8, 2013 -> 11:26 AM) Never Forget.... how easily offended some are over a one-day bar promotion. Too soon???? Would you you say "Help us remember 9/11 with shots of Fireball" ? It's a classless move. 3,649 people were killed at Pearl Harbor. Making a joke about it is absolutely terrible.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 09:05 AM) Come on bucket/Rock, give us a little nugget to tid us over! The White Sox are interested in players but don't want to give up a lot of players. They are willing to trade a few players though.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Dec 9, 2013 -> 09:04 AM) Sexson = parts, quantity over quality. Bedard was a great package for Bedard but an absolute joke of a deal for Sale. The Haren deal, the deal of those like 8 guys Boston offered for Felix way back... that might get you to "listen" on Sale. Think about this: you get someone to offer you a Prior or Wood or a Gavin Floyd type of prospect to headline a huge deal and there's a good chance you end up with a maddening overpaid starter who spends most his time on the DL or else some flakey headcase you ship out at a fraction of his value and watch him become a solid #3 for someone else - and that's actually if things go pretty well for you. When things don't go well you build your trade around a bunch of guys who get hurt and/or fall off and lose their stuff, and you get nothing at all. Whatever. The point being you need a big package. You only trade him if you are getting an absolute overpay of epic proportions.