witesoxfan

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jan 7, 2015 -> 09:53 AM) I agree. Wagner was a better pitcher than Hoffman. The biggest problem is there are still a lot of old timers in the BBWAA that like nice round figures like 600 saves and s*** like that. Or they'll look at the fact that for about five years he was the all time saves leader. When all is said and done I think Hoffman will be in but Wagner won't and I don't really like that. Hoffman was an incredible pitcher for a long time, so I'd have no problem with him getting in, but I think Wagner deserves it more. I think people just forget how good Billy Wagner really was. Frankly, if Mariano Rivera is the greatest reliever of all time, you can make a damn good argument that Billy Wagner is the second best reliever of all time.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jan 7, 2015 -> 09:27 AM) I completely agree. I'm 23, played college baseball, and always would say that. Side note, amazing what Sox have done this off season without giving up any of the top 10 prospects. Amazing. Technically, we had Ravelo as the #10 prospect, and Semien probably would have been around #4-6 had he qualified as a prospect.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jan 7, 2015 -> 07:59 AM) I think Billy Wagner is really underappreciated for how good he was. I don't think he will get in, and probably shouldn't, but he's closer than many think. His numbers stacked up to Mariano Rivera are strikingly similar. Mariano Rivera - 2.21 ERA, 2.76 FIP, 1.000 WHIP, 7.0 H/9, 0.5 HR/9, 2.0 BB/9, 8.2 K/9, 4.1 K/BB, 652 Saves Billy Wagner - 2.31 ERA, 2.73 FIP, 0.998 WHIP, 6.0 H/9, 0.8 HR/9, 3.0 BB/9, 11.9 K/9, 3.99 K/BB, 422 Saves Their numbers are nearly identical with the only difference being Rivera played much longer and played for the Yankees which accounts for the extra 230 saves. Wagner played basically 14 seasons and was still really good when he retired while Rivera played 18 seasons. On a per season basis, Wagner had about 30 saves to Rivera's 36. Pretty close with the difference being that Rivera played for the Yankees and therefore had many more opportunities. I'm certainly not saying Wagner had the career that Rivera did, but really when they were both at the top of their game they were about equal. That being said I don't think it's right for one to be considered the greatest reliever of all time and the other to just have become an after thought. I think Wagner deserves to be a HOFer more than Hoffman does.

Since we're talking about it, I don't mind Danish calling Rodon a kid. If a 5 year old calls a 7 year old a kid, we would agree, and an 11 year old calls a 14 year old a kid, we wouldn't say anything, so a 20 year old calling a 22 year old a kid is not wrong in my view.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Jan 6, 2015 -> 05:59 PM) This has been a perfect offseason but I might have signed Andrew Miller over David Robertson because he fits that mold of being a traditional closer with the high velocity more than Roberston who tops out at 94. Trevor Hoffman is one of the greatest closers of all time. In his last 9 years on the mound, his average fastball velocity was about 85 MPH. Velocity is good. It is not everything. I have absolutely no qualms with David Robertson.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jan 6, 2015 -> 02:20 PM) Thanks, Dick. Thanks, hi8is. Edit: Can this thread be awarded most useless thread in SOXTALK history yet? Thanks, hi8is. No Thanks, wite

Wish Larry Walker would get a little more love. Hell, there are a lot of guys on here I wish would get more love. Troy Percival, a good but unspectacular closer, should not have received votes at all. Same with Tom Gordon. Not the same with Aaron Boone who should have never been on the ballot in the first place but received votes because he hit a home run off Tim Wakefield. I mean, are they going to put Travis Ishikawa on the ballot too? I liked watching both of those guys, but they did not deserve Hall of Fame votes and merely got them because a writer saw them on the ballot and thought to themselves "Hey, I remember that fastball/curveball! I'm giving him a vote!"

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jan 6, 2015 -> 12:25 PM) Hmm? Nobody can sign any of these prospects until July 2nd? How does that support the idea that the Cubs already have him? I'm going mostly on whispers and rumblings around the internet.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Jan 6, 2015 -> 12:22 PM) I wouldn't be surprised is Scherzer's multi-year demands are not met by any team, leaving him to consider a one-year deal and re-try. In that scenario, I could see the Sox in the mix, as we would have the lowest draft pick loss of any team, and would be sure to get back a higher one when Scherzer isn't re-signed. Still a longshot. But not impossible. I would be more surprised by that than I was at this exact combination of moves the Sox made this offseason. Plus, if Scherzer took a 1 year deal to maximize his long-term return, I think you could easily see him get a 1 year, $30 million deal.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 6, 2015 -> 09:58 AM) Not to mention, in Philly, Kelly will have more say and in New York, I'm presuming Maronne will have some additional control. Chicago would appear to be the job that the top GM candidate would want due to the full-control being granted and the fact that you almost get a free pass with Cutler in year 1 (I presume we will keep him for a year and than make a decision on him after a new coaching staff is in place). FWIW, Marrone's interview with the Jets did not go very well. I think he will be a head coach somewhere next year, but I don't think this has gone as well for him as he envisioned. It really says something about the character of a guy who is willing to walk out on an extremely young and talented team that has, for the most part, one [major, glaring, gigantic] hole on the team.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 10:14 PM) If you choose not to be insulted by hearing or reading stories of Jerry Reinsdorf's asserted benevolence because he approved that last additional "expenditure" for Cabrera's contract, which pushed the team payroll just over the $100 million mark, you go right ahead. That's just barely getting the team to the MLB team average for payroll, and therefore I refuse to fall prey to the team's propaganda and talking points that they're somehow going out on a limb on all of this recent spending. Meanwhile, the reigning division champs continue to spend almost 50% more than the Sox. I find that disparity unacceptable, that's all I'm saying. You are endorsing a policy where Reinsdorf and the board spend $150 million a year on payroll. Regardless of the feasibility of that idea (according to these numbers, which are approximations, only 5 teams spent $150 million in payroll last year and the White Sox and Cubs COMBINED did not spend $150 million), what would you have spent that money on? It seems absurd that you are indicting Reinsdorf on not spending money and then not offering an alternative plan as to what would be done with that money. Are you implying that he should spend money just to spend money? Or are you using revisionist history and saying "they should have won more"? If you are going to say that they didn't win more in the last 10-15 years because Reinsdorf didn't spend money, then I will wholeheartedly and unabashedly disagree with you, because a sufficient amount of money was spent. If anything, that falls on the players on the field, the managers and coaches on the bench, and the people in the front office. I do agree that they can spend more if the acquisition makes sense. At this juncture, how would you justify another expenditure like that? Bring in a guy like Scherzer, even though historical data shows us that pitchers who are worthwhile for 7 years are exceedingly rare? Bring in a guy like Shields who is already 33 and has shown some of the telltale signs of slowing down? Really, neither of those make sense and it takes an injury to either one of them to cripple the Sox and limit their flexibility in finding replacements. Frankly, the only sorts of moves that make sense are moves to shore up the depth of the club in the event that an injury strikes, and I think Hahn has shown just in the past years that he's constantly trying to do that. Considering they are also trying to allocate some money to sign Samardzija long-term while also accounting for raises to Abreu, Eaton, Sale, and Quintana, I think it makes sense to look at the current team through a long-term lens rather than a "spend everything, damn the margins, and try and win it this year!" This is a team that probably has a 40% chance of a playoff birth but they should be competitive and should win a lot more than they did last season. After the previous two meager seasons, I'd ultimately be happy with an 85 win team, even if there would be immediate disappointment if/when they were eliminated from playoff contention. This is not an overnight process. Hopefully in 3 years, given what Hahn and the front office are doing to ensure long-term viability of the club while also doing their best to make the current club competitive, the Sox will be spending $150 million a year. There's no guarantee that this works. Thus, spending some and going out on a limb to try and put together a competitive team will either further justify spending or will allow them to trade a lot of these pieces off. If they signed Scherzer/Shields at this point, and it was inherently obvious within a year and a half that the team wasn't going to be competitive, you are likely stuck with that contract because the surplus value from either contract is not enough to justify another team trading for them. The current philosophy makes sense.

Thanks, it's easy to lose track of these. Quick fix: Rienzo was traded to Miami, not LAA.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jan 6, 2015 -> 01:51 AM) I'd have to absolutely agree with that. I don't think he is a bench player though. My guess is Bonafacio becomes our starting 2B, who will spell anyone who needs it, allowing Carlos Sanchez, Luery Garcia, or JB Shuck to get some starts at 2B. I think this move pretty much sealed Micah's start in AAA. And the other 3 guys will battle for backup IF spots. I think he was brought in as insurance at 2B. If Sanchez and/or Johnson play poorly, there is a veteran bat behind them. If Ozzie were managing, I'd agree with you 100% and I think we'd all be a lot less optimistic about this move, but I think Ventura will manage this OK.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 05:58 PM) the thing is, it is not that he knows it, or if he does know it. it is that thing between his ears..... maybe sending him back will reinforce it. I will do everything short of guaranteeing that Dayan Viciedo is in another organization to begin the year.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 12:46 PM) Saw this on Twitter over the weekend, I'm sure it's been floating around for a while. Posters on a bodybuilding forum start arguing over how many days there are in a week. Go to post #6 and enjoy, so ridiculous. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=107926751 Saw this on Deadspin. Hilarity.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 03:54 PM) Would anyone sign Lindstrom again? For this year? No, but if we're using revisionist history and wondering if I still would have signed him prior to 2013, yes I would have.

QUOTE (lvjeremylv @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 12:55 PM) We only know what they tell us. Like 3 weeks ago when Hahn said the Sox were tapped out and not going to make any more big deals, then 2 seconds later we were hearing that they'd spent $42M on Melky Cabrera. Let's just agree that the Sox have somewhere between $0 and $30M more that they could spend for 2015's payroll. It all depends on what they feel they should do. I think if they REALLY want to contend and make some SERIOUS noise, there's a guy out there that they could pull the trigger on (it's a big trigger that will require a lot of strength to pull, yes, but they have a finger for it) that would completely change the outlook and expectations of the season to come and the next 3-5 after it. I think that possibility exists - that there's money for the right guy - but that's an extreme scenario and it almost bit them last year with their interest in Tanaka. Scherzer is absolutely not that guy. He's 30 years old and looking for a $175 million deal at the bare minimum. It's not a worthwhile investment. QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 01:03 PM) If the Detroit Tigers who play in a much smaller market can feature a $163 million payroll, then there is no way I can accept the fact that a $150 million payroll is not "realistic" for the "Chicago" White Sox. No way! Again, unless you know the structure of both the Detroit Tigers and Chicago White Sox boards, then there's no way you can make this statement. Beyond that, Jerry Reinsdorf's net worth is $350 million. He's not the sole owner, but it is what it is. Mike Illitch's net worth is $1.7 billion. Even with the aforementioned discussion of the liquidity of net worth, Illitch is worth almost 5 times the amount Reinsdorf is. That's a slightly significant figure.

QUOTE (lvjeremylv @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 12:43 PM) I wonder if there's a way I can wire him some money, you know, so he can manage to eat a decent meal tonight? His portfolio is full of illiquid assets, and I feel guilty having all this liquid in my wallet. = JR in his house right now cos he can't afford to turn the heat on. QUOTE (lvjeremylv @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 12:45 PM) LOL. Nah. He's broke. Poor guy. No need for this tone. No one is saying Reinsdorf or the White Sox are poor, but considering you don't have insight into books or the board for the Chicago White Sox, I'm going to venture to guess that their knowledge with which they are able to work is much better than yours. This isn't the same as "Mark Cuban owns the team, spend all the money!" There's a few more moving parts than that.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 12:15 PM) I agree, Scherzer would have a gigantic impact on an already very improved team and fanbase. I know it's possible, but I don't think it will happen. I believe it is possible in the same sense that Hector Noesi could win the Cy Young this year; that it's an entirely plausible possibility because he pitches for a MLB team and is virtually assured of a spot in a starting rotation. What limits it's likelihood is the fact that Hector Noesi is not a very good starting pitcher. Yes, Scherzer to the Sox is a possibility in that he is a good pitcher and he is a free agent. That he is going to cost an astronomical amount of money and will require a minimum of a 6 year deal and very likely a 7 year deal (or more) and that the Sox have never signed a pitcher to a contract that exorbitant in their history and likely won't for quite some time now makes it a virtual impossibility.

If a $150 million payroll were realistic, the White Sox would have a $150 million payroll. I think they could probably get away with a $110 million payroll this year, but that leaves very little wiggle room and I don't see the need to spend money just to spend money. I also want nothing to do with either Scherzer or Shields 3 years from now, let alone 5 or 7.

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 11:53 AM) And the people who should be there are not there... brilliant. Not to split this into an ethnicity thing, but this appears to be a group of young American hitters. Not that they couldn't have Latino or Hispanic players involved with this, but there may also be visa issues getting those guys back into the country right now while these guys are allowed to travel freely, or these other guys are playing winter ball or who knows. Also, I think all of these guys are the highest priority among players who need this kind of thing. Really, the only guy here who doesn't need the mini-camp is Eaton.

QUOTE (bear_brian @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 11:16 AM) Not if they do not keep Samardzija. Not including other acquisitions or arbitration figures, the Sox 2016 payroll obligations are approximately $86 million already. Considering the Sox likely want to keep their payroll at this juncture around $100 mill or so, I would say that adding a 5-7 year deal in the $22-25 million range is not a feasible option at this point.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 10:03 AM) esse Sanchez ‏@JesseSanchezMLB 1h1 hour ago Teenager Vlad Guerrero Jr. won't be able to sign until July 2 but sources say Angels, Mets & Blue Jays have already shown serious interest. There have been other suggestions that the Cubs basically have him locked up too. If anyone hasn't seen video of him, it's incredible how similar his swing is to his father's.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 10:02 AM) He said he hits lefties. Left handed pitchers, where he is much better when he hits righty. You just mixed them up. I suck. This is still a good signing, even if he is a poor hitter against RHP.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 09:35 AM) Not breaking any new ground here, but there's lot to like about this: He can play multiple positions. He hits lefties. The cost is minimal. His signing signifies that Hahn reads Soxtalk. He doesn't hit left handed very well. .250/.311/.326, .286 wOBA, 73 wRC+ in 1947 career PAs against RHP as a LHH