witesoxfan

BTW, this thread is currently the 6th longest in PHT history and 4th longest non-CatchAll thread. We have a long, long ways to go to catch the Peavy traded thread. That had some 4,100 replies.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 09:56 AM) The bolded pretty well disagrees with everything else we've seen for the last 2 weeks. I'm half stunned this deal happened because we heard so much about it in advance. I feel the exact same way. I really did believe the A's were using the White Sox as leverage, that was just how open the negotiations seemed. I know Hahn hasn't been as shut in as Williams, but that's still crazy.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 09:47 AM) It doesn't appear to be a ptbnl. We just don't have a name yet. Right. If it's a PTBNL, then no, it won't be someone on the 40-man. I recall that there are stipulations that sometimes require you withhold the identity of prospects until after a certain date too. When the Sox traded Garcia to Philadelphia, we all knew it was Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez, but Gio couldn't be announced for some time. I recall the press conference announcing the trade was rather humorous because they kept trying to get Williams to talk about Gio and he would start doing so and would catch himself and there was a quote, something to the extent of "you guys are trying to get me in trouble, aren't you?" Anyways, yeah, I was thinking it'd be someone on the 40-man. If it's not, then yes, the 40-man is full.

Thanks for everything Chris, you've been awesome. As is the nature of minor leaguers, you can be traded if you're good, but that will bring about an opportunity at the MLB level. Hope the Sox hit you hard and you break the bats of everyone else!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 09:38 AM) They just picked up that catcher from the Marlins who takes up a 40 man spot right? They were at 39, prior to that. Brantly makes it 40. We'll assume the TBD is a member of the 40-man, which is TBD, Semien, and Bassitt. That brings it to 37. Then you add Samardzija and Robertson, and voila, back to 39.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 09:27 AM) Those kind of numbers make sense to me. It's the people who say "oh just fix the bullpen and we're a .500 team or better" who I'm disagreeing with. That's definitely not true, but the Sox have made some moves that will help them win and will be making others too. LaRoche and Samardzija will help get that close and I think they'll be looking to add an outfielder and a couple more arms on top of that. And interesting implication from this move would be that it opens up a 40-man roster spot. They were at 39 when they had to protect players as well. I still think Hahn will add someone via the Rule 5; whether they keep them is a different story.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 09:08 AM) I think it does make one important point - that it takes an exceptionally good bullpen to make a large difference in a team's record. While I agree and I think some people overstate the value, I do think it's worthwhile to mention that when considering contextual and leverage differences, relievers are going to be able to affect more games than others. Ultimately a 2 WAR reliever may affect 4 or 5 or 8 games, but it's impossible to know. With the additions of Duke and Robertson, I think we can safely assume that the Sox gain 3 wins. When you consider who they are replacing - basically Downs/Snodgress and Belisario - you can add another win or 2 on top of that. This was a significant move. I'm OK with the general structure of it for now.

QUOTE (jhonnydanks @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 04:27 PM) stop, don't get it get it

I like this.

Yeah, I think that Hammel signing was a great one for them.

QUOTE (daggins @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 04:48 PM) reddick has more value than shark so getting him involved would take some talent. I think smarj can be had w/o anderson, and I agree that overpaying for the pair would be bad. But I think that is what it would take for both. The only way I would even think about trading Anderson at all is if Samardzija and Reddick were both included. I might throw in Montas on top of that too, but that's enough talent that's close to the majors for the A's to really only need about 1 more player on top. I also don't think Reddick has anywhere near the value Samardzija has. Reddick is a good player but he's not that good, and he's 2 years away from free agency.

QUOTE (daggins @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 04:44 PM) shark and reddick for montas, anderson, webb and semien I'd probably have a mild stroke. There's nothing quite like giving up all your prospects of value in one shot.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 04:14 PM) Gordon Edes ‏@GordonEdes 22m22 minutes ago Seth Levinson says it’s “absolutely untrue” Sox are out on Lester Didn't know the Sox were involved. Just hate it when people say "Sox" and mean Red Sox. You don't just say "Chicago" is interested in a player, or "New York" is interested in a player, so why would you say the "Sox" are interested in a player?

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 11:03 AM) Is this guy as good as Aberu? He signed an identical deal... I think. Early reports indicate he's closer to Viciedo than Abreu.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 03:56 PM) I think the Sox are the exception to the rule. They have had a awful record developing hitters of any postion not even poor but awful. Part of this is me being difficult, but it feels like a worthwhile discussion. Some of it may be a moot point because who knows if the Sox trade for Samardzija or who they trade to get him.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 03:48 PM) I'm not sure if the comments were that it was easy. I think it was that the 2B/utility role is easier to fill and not as important as a top of the rotation starter. If the White Sox are an example to follow, then that's not exactly true. Seems to me that in the past 10 years, the Sox have had several front of the rotation starters but only had one above average 2B during that entire time frame in Tadahito Iguchi. People saying that it's easy or that it's not as important have yet to really win me over with that argument. Frankly, if Semien is dealt, the Sox are looking at Carlos Sanchez and Micah Johnson as the internal candidates at 2B. Those two were both less than impressive at both AAA and the MLB, depending on where either ended up. All we can say at this point is we'll see.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 03:37 PM) Because second base is usually the easiest position to find. Lots of teams end up acquiring high ceiling SS's, 3B's, and OF's through the amateur selection process, and usually if a guys bat is good, he is relatively athletic, but glove is there to stick at a spot, he will end up at 2B. Its the place where you stash a guy with a solid bat and average defensive skills. Anderson could be a high end offensive 2B still, we will see what happens with his defense, if not he will end up on the other side of the IF. If 2B were so easy to find, there would be a ton of really good ones out there. That's not the case. http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=...=&players=0 There are maybe 8 or 9 guys on there that I think you could safely say are very good. It's impossible to deny that the Sox have depth at the position, but if it were that easy to fill, we'd know who it was moving forward and they wouldn't have had a blackhole there over the last 5 years.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 03:19 PM) Jacksquat? Lawrie has been a much better player to this point than Donaldson was at the same point in his career. He's better than Jose Bautista was too but are you going to trade him for Brett Lawrie? Donaldson came up late and is older than people realize, but if he's not a superstar, he's pretty damn close and he has like 3-4 years of team control remaining. Meanwhile, claiming that Lawrie has been anything but a huge bust to this point is crazy.

People keep claiming that 2B is one that is the least impactful or least important. Why? I'd like to understand the reasoning behind that because I sure don't understand it. And then I'd point out that Robinson Cano signed a 10 year, $240 million deal. I believe the Mariners overpaid, but that was a franchise that surely felt that 2B was not the least important position on the field and they almost clinched a Wild Card spot last year and are in great position to do so this year.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 03:03 PM) You are the guy that said you wouldn't trade Semien for Shark. I just said that is insane logic and extreme over-valuing of the deal. I am okay trading Semien, Beck, Johnson, and others (not all in one package) for Shark. I don't want to trade Anderson and I'm also okay with a package centered around Alexei. I also think we plan on signing him long term and I'm okay with that based upon the dollar figures I've seen thrown around (which is a 5 year deal If I was given the choice of Shark for a little less than 100M or Shields (and the loss of the pick) for the same price (bug we get to keep Semien), I'm taking Shark 100 out of 100 times and I think pretty much every executive in baseball would too. No slight on Semien here. But I think Beane would hang up the phone if that was the Sox best offer. Ultimately I probably would trade Semien for Samardzija, but I'd try and take about every avenue possible to avoid it.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 02:41 PM) Betting Phegley. I was saying that before this claim even. I think he's had his shots, and the org has sent signals multiple times they didn't like his approach and attitude. My guess is he's gone. I think so too, it just doesn't make sense to stick with him given what they have. I'm guessing they trade him for an arm of some time, maybe just a low level guy, but there's enough there for a team to want to give him some sort of shot.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 02:24 PM) Bill James 2015 handbook ranks John Danks the #111 starter. A guy the Sox supposedly need to pay to get rid of at just about any cost. Justin Masterson is ranked #105. I don't mind a low cost, 1 year deal as I think he has an arsenal that would be well equipped for the pen too. I wouldn't do anything more than that.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 01:06 PM) Sounds like you don't want a divorce from Marcus. Well I don't But really, I just want it resolved so we can figure out how the A's take way too much from the White Sox again while they seemingly give away guys like Donaldson and Moss to the opposition for jacksquat.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 12:59 PM) I think when it's all said and done. JS will not get the same deal that Scherzer will. If it was even, I would agree but I don't think it will be. Some of it depends on who is traded of course. I'm fine with Rameirez going. I think he is one of the better SS around but for a quality starting pitcher, I would do it everytime. The more I think about it, the more I'd be perfectly content trading Ramirez for Samardzija, but that doesn't seem like the kind of move the Sox would make. Frankly, I want this situation to be resolved so I can move on.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 12:49 PM) He is more than slightly inferior, especially considering the health issues. JS has been in the 200 inning range every year as a starter. If you sign McCarthy you better have quality starters waiting. Then sign Scherzer. I find it hard to believe that Samardzija wouldn't at least get 6/$130 on the open market, and frankly Scherzer isn't going to cost that much more and then you don't have to give up a player with a name for him. I'll be done now. I just don't think Semien is the right guy for this franchise to give up.