witesoxfan

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 11:33 AM) Pardon my lack of knowledge regarding Perderson, but is he a guy who would be in the Sox's outfield in 2015 if he were acquired? Or would he need some time in AAA? In an admittedly very good hitter's league, Pederson still put up .303/.435/.582 at AAA this year with 33 homers. He won't turn 23 until 3 weeks after Opening Day next year. Yes, he'd be in the Sox outfield at some point in 2015. Likely after the Sox could guarantee 6+ years of service. I'd say around May 15th or so. QUOTE (Baron @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 11:34 AM) True...but just something like if they wanted to add Danks in would clear things up. I wouldnt take on Ethier or Crawford without shipping a terrible contract back with them. It certainly wouldnt happen for just Alexei. If Ethier or Crawford were to be included, I'd eat a hat if Danks didn't get sent to LA.

QUOTE (Baron @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 11:28 AM) Man we could use a bucket or rock little piece of info here....So many ideas swirling around right now and plenty of them make sense. But way too much info that isnt known. Frankly, if the Dodgers are aggressively pursuing Alexei, there could be a zillion different things going on and it might not matter what we heard from those guys anyways.

The information we can reasonably assume to be correct is this: -The Dodgers have a glut of outfielders. -The Dodgers are looking to shed some salary. -The Dodgers have three outfielders making large sums of money with a fourth that is making substantially more than the league minimum along with two others at the league minimum. -The Dodgers have a spot in the back of their rotation open. -The White Sox do not have a great option behind Ramirez at SS, but they have some guys who are reasonable options. -The White Sox have really only one contract that they want to get rid of. -The White Sox do have some money to spend. -The White Sox are looking for at least one left handed bat. If the Dodgers believe that Ramirez is the best shortstop on the market and is a perfect fit for their team, then the White Sox hold a ton of leverage here. The Dodgers could also use a guy like Danks, but they are going to view that as negative value overall in the deal. Let's see if we can't come to some sort of reasonable trade proposal here based on the information we know. To me, the initial idea that comes up is still Ramirez and Danks for Ethier and Pederson, but something doesn't seem right about that deal. Maybe the Sox include Trayce Thompson and the Dodgers kick in $10 million in year 3 (to distribute to year 3 to cover half of those costs).

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 10:43 AM) Well, Montas hasn't pitched for the White Sox either, and every GM in baseball would take him over Bassit. He was essentially just a "lottery ticket" at the time of the Peavy trade, along with Rondon and Wendelken. To say that ANYONE expected him to be knocking on the door of the Top 100 MLB prospects a year ago would be laughable as well. Yeah, and then we got a year to see him pitch. I am not going to rule out Sanburn doing something similar, but I'm going to say it's incredibly unlikely.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 10:29 AM) They did give up on Neal Cotts. That worked out pretty well. They didn't "give up" on him. Neal Cotts was a prospect the A's included in the Koch/Foulke deal. Without looking it up, I couldn't even tell you the 3rd player the Sox got.

Split this out because it seems like pertinent, new info and rumors. We'll see where it leads.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 09:46 AM) 1st and 2nd round draft picks have a much higher likelihood of making the majors. Obviously the White Sox liked something about him. Yes, the White Sox liked that he wore a baseball uniform and the A's were willing to trade him for Adam Dunn. I get that he's an intriguing prospect, but only like 50% of first round picks make it to the majors and 2nd rounders are less likely than that. The fact that the A's were so willing to give him up throws up some red flags for me.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 09:51 AM) The buyout only comes into play if the option doesn't vest, since we don't know what it takes for the option to vest, you can't assume he doesn't meet the standards in the contract. He is getting older, he will be 33 when the season starts, and there is no reason to think that last year wasn't the start of his decline as he ages. I would certainly not risk hamstringing the club financially on the chance that last season was a fluke and that he will produce at a high level in his age 33-37 seasons. Andre Ethier cf 5 years/$85M (2013-17), plus 2018 option •5 years/$85M (2013-17), plus 2018 club option •signed extension with LA Dodgers 6/12/12 •13:$13.5M, 14:$15.5M, 15:$18M, 16:$18M, 17:$17.5M, 18:$17.5M club option ($2.5M buyout) •2018 salary guaranteed with 550 plate appearances in 2017 or 1,100 PAs in 2017-18 •perks: use of stadium luxury box for eight games each season http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensa...ngeles-dodgers/

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 09:35 AM) My point of view is that to get a team to take Either, they are going to have to offer some sort of enticement, whether that be cash, or a top prospect, who knows. The bigger the enticement, the bigger the return to get back to LAD. NO ONE. Is taking on Either and his contract, without getting something extra in return. I have always thought that a Danks for (insertLADOFhere) along with a dollar amount to balance out any of the years that Danks doesn't have a deal for, makes the most sense for both teams. I think if the Dodgers are balancing out the salaries, the Sox will also have to include a prospect of some type. Not necessarily a world beater, but perhaps a C level prospect, guys with higher ceilings but who currently project as backups or AAAA players.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 09:28 AM) I'll say he has just as good a shot as Bassit. If Bassit's a "mega ball" ticket, I think we're more likely to hit on one of these two guys than Micker Adolfo. Nolan Sanburn, rhp Age: 22 An Athletics second-round pick in 2012, Sanburn had the potential to be one of the organization’s best pitching prospects, but he wasn’t healthy enough to show much since turning pro. He moved back to the bullpen this season after working as a starter in 2012 and part of 2013. A reliever at Arkansas, Sanburn signed as a draft-eligible sophomore in 2012 and has pitched just 120 in three seasons. When healthy, he has an electric fastball at 93-94 mph and can touch 96 with riding life. His curveball also shows impressive depth while coming in hard in the high 70s. www.baseballamerica.com Well I think that's ridiculous, but I will let you believe what you want to believe. Nolan Sanburn has yet to pitch in AA while Chris Bassitt has pitched in the majors with some success and pitched extremely well in the AFL. Considering that, you really still believe that Nolan Sanburn has as good a shot as Chris Bassitt?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 09:20 AM) NOBODY needs Danks. That's the problem with these proposed swaps. It's basically "Dodgers give us Ethier for free along with most of his salary covered," because Danks is valueless. Maybe they WOULD do that if it was the best offer, but SOMEONE out there will do the same deal but send back a live-arm prospect instead, so if we want him, we'll have to beat that slightly. I do think there is going to be a very, very limited market for Andre Ethier, but maybe the Orioles feel that Ethier or Crawford would be a nice fit for them and they send Ubaldo Jimenez over to LA for either, or perhaps the Cubs send over Edwin Jackson. Perhaps the Dodgers want to take on as little money as possible. It's really up to them. I think a Danks-Ethier swap makes sense, but I don't think that's all it will take from the Sox end.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 07:50 PM) The Dodger are the one with a glut of overpaid OF's. They can keep them and never get Pederson in the lineup or bite the bullet and eat some salary . No team should want to pick up those full salaries based on Dodger desperation to move those bad contracts. No, but I think the Dodgers can do a hell of a lot better than essentially paying all but like $7 million of the remaining salary to Andre Ethier. I get that they're stuck between a rock and a hard place, but they aren't just going to pay $20 million on top of taking Danks and getting nothing else in return. I think there are some teams that would take Matt Kemp and his entire salary if the Dodgers gave him away for free.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 08:28 AM) In another thread, i've suggested trying to acquire Ethier, for nothing more than picking up his salary. Putting aside the feasibility of such a scenario, whom would you rather have; Melky Cabrera on a 4 year deal, at the numbers you guys have suggested, or Ethier for 3 years, and $56 Million, taking into account that Cabrera would cost a draft pick. If you can work something about with the Dodgers swapping Danks and Ethier, I'd prefer both Ethier and Cabrera.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 05:15 PM) I like 3 @ 15 better I would agree, and would go one step further and say that I wouldn't even hate 3 at $16. I wouldn't really want to go over that. To me, the 4th year is always a much bigger deal than the AAV.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 05:03 PM) Yes the sox do lack starting pitching depth at this time. I did say before that if the sox pitching staff had to be good from starting to bullpen for the team to compete. The problem that I stated before is we don't know whats in store for rodon. Is he starting in the minors or at the major league level. If he starts at the majors and he pitches well then do the sox shut him down towards the end of the season to rest him. If he starts in the minors does he stay there all year or come up later. Im honestly counting Rodon to be a further down option right now for the rotation. If that's the case and the sox magically trade Danks then you have sale, Quintana, open spot, open spot and Noesi. if you sign a free agent then you still need to fill the 4th spot. do you go with Bassitt or someone else. I don't want to see Carroll or Rienzo in the rotation unless its a spot start. Carroll put up a 5.40 era starting last year and Rienzo with a 5.97. Those 2 shouldn't see significant time in the rotation and if they do then you have bigger problems. Beck may still need time in Charlotte. Danish is only in winston-salem. Unless hes fully ready he will still be probably needing to go to Birmingham and Charlotte. Montas still needs to work on control and he is still in winston-salem. The Sox will likely treat Rodon like they do all of their young starting pitchers - conservatively, but not shying away from a big innings jump. He will not start the year with the White Sox. Regardless, bringing in a starting pitcher on a short-term deal makes a ton of sense.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 04:30 PM) Have anyone in particular in mind? I kinda wonder if maybe Shields could be the guy ( bad contract) given his age and expected contract length. Regression will happen to him. Maybe the cubs offer a 4-5 year deal to BMac? That would be a gamble topped off with insanity given his injury history. The absolutely most I think any team could ever go with McCarthy is 3 years. If someone gave him 4-5 years, they'd likely have to be committed to a mental institution.

Depending on the price, I think this is a move that could make a lot of sense.

QUOTE (knightni @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 03:47 PM) Ethier has one more extra additional year (2017) on his deal than Danks at 17.5 mil + a 2.5 mil buyout after that. If they got 20 mil to offset the final year and the buyout, the Sox owe $4 mil more ($18 mil as opposed to $14 mil) to Ethier per year than Danks in '15 and '16. I just don't see why the Dodgers would do that. Why are they going to pay $20 million for Ethier to play elsewhere in 2017? I think Danks for Ethier makes a lot of sense, but if the Sox want the Dodgers to eat some of that 2017 salary, they're going to need to include another body or else the Dodgers could likely find someone else with whom to trade.

QUOTE (AlSoxfan @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 03:34 PM) I think or hope that after last yr. they are compelled to at least rethink about spending money on a bullpen. The price of tea has gone up. 2 of the better bullpens in baseball were in the WS last yr. We also lack starting pitching that can go more than 5 or 6 innings. Somethings gotta give if we really want to compete The Sox just lack quality starting pitching depth. If they could bring in a starter (and somehow get rid of Danks), I think a top 7 or so of Sale, Quintana, [FA], Noesi, Rodon, Carroll, and Beck is perfectly adequate, and they have high upside options in guys like Montas and Danish on the way too.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 03:20 PM) Ethier is owed a little less than $4Million more than Danks, in each of the next two seasons. If he could fill the need for another outfielder, and a left handed bat, an even swap might be justified. The problem is the 3RD year of his contract, when he will still be owed another $17.5 Million, while Danks' contract will have expired. If the Sox could get a little relief for that 3RD year, it might be worth while. Does Ethier represent a good enough defensive upgrade in RF to justify acquiring him? Ethier is an OK defensive outfielder who is probably going to be a bad defensive outfielder at the end of the deal.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 03:04 PM) But it's the price of poker. Free agents get more money. Paulie took a little discount, but might not have had they not just won the WS. Guys are getting more expensive. If you want them you are going to have to pay or develop them just to lose them. They never gave anyone what the gave Abreu and he had never played one game in the major leagues. If they aren't willing to pay these prices, they won't get these players. It doesn't even make sense to speak with them. If they are engaged with Miller, I would think they are in the ballpark money-wise. I don't think that's necessarily true. They may be willing to give more than most, but when push comes to shove, we'll see where they're at. As of right now, it's no surprise that White Sox have interest in the best lefty on the market after they had an absolutely terrible bullpen last year. Whether they spend the requisite money has to yet to be seen. They may think he'll be worth $8 million a year, but I don't think that's going to get him. QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 03:13 PM) So if they gave they gave that much money to a player that was the most in franchise history then what would stop them from giving 10 million a year to a reliever. Because the marginal utility of a reliever is not that high. The very most I think you'd see a reliever really worth, including context, is 4-5 games worth. If the Sox were a true talent 75 win team last year (and they cut some wins at the end to get an extended look at young players), then Andrew Miller really puts them at about .500, and you have to make up those other wins elsewhere. And that's at the very most. If he goes back to being a 1-1.5 WAR player, he's not worth it for the Sox as they are currently constructed and it's very possible he could turn into an albatross at that point in time. When a guy is not the final piece of the puzzle - and Andrew Miller is definitely not the final piece of the puzzle - then you should stick with your limit, which I am guessing is around $8 mill per year for the White Sox. If that gets him, awesome, if not, then forget about it.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 02:58 PM) Sox have never spent big on Cuban players coming directly from Cuba before abreu. Yes thy spent big on middle of the order bats before but last time they did was dunn and already saw what he was like when the signed abreu to know to be wary of that type of contract. The White Sox guaranteed Jose Abreu more money in a single contract than anybody else in franchise history. I don't see how that's indicative of them suddenly spending $10+ mill a year on a reliever.

QUOTE (knightni @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 02:33 PM) Ethier and 20 mil from the Dodgers for Danks...? I don't doubt the possibility that they could deal Danks for Ethier, but I don't think they're getting $20 mill back from LA. They may get a little to offset the cost in the final year, but not $20 million.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 02:57 PM) That conveniently ignores the contracts given to guys like Magglio and Konerko. The Sox haven't given ANY reliever (internal or external) a contract anywhere near what Andrew Miller is looking for. That is a HUGE difference. To be fair, it does show how little they care to spend on free agents. That is not a bad thing whatsoever. Unless there are special circumstances, spending on free agents usually ends up biting teams in the ass.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 02:39 PM) Just because they didn't spend more on a reliever before doesn't mean they still wont. Did you honestly think they would shell out the money and years to a player like abreu who never played in the mlb. It was a bigger risk for abreu then for a reliever like miller. Yes I did. I see them having problems spending $10 million a year on a reliever. They barely want to spend $10 million on a starting pitcher, why would they give that kind of guarantee to a bullpen pitcher?