witesoxfan

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 02:10 PM) The Sox are not going to go out and sign a bunch of relievers for long term contracts. They would probably do it for miller cause they haven't had a dominant left hander who is not just a specialist since thornton when he was good. Sometimes when there is a major necessity you have to pay up. If they would not go out and sign a bunch of relievers to long term contracts, then they aren't going to ultimately do it for Miller either. The most I think they've ever spent on a reliever on the free agent market was the $5.5 mill AAV they gave to Dotel. I strongly, strongly doubt they'll ultimately sign Andrew Miller.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 01:21 PM) Its really only taking yourself out of play for one season, and maybe not even that long given the names that Sox have been connected with. With the payroll reductions the Sox have made the last two seasons there is some money there to go out and use to make such acquisitions. The Sox would have had to pay $20M posting fee for Tanaka last season, so we know there is some money around for such moves and you can reasonable assume that the pot is bigger given the reduced payroll and amateur spending this season. It was changed from no signings over $250K for 1 season to no signings over $300k for 2 seasons when teams were intentionally exploiting that loophole, so for whoever signs Moncada, it will be two times his signing bonus (likely about $80 million) for year one of his service plus then whatever he'd get in a normal 6 year contract. They are then locked out of signings over $300k for 2015-16 and 2016-17. They'd finally be able to make signings over $300k within their slotted pool amount again on July 2, 2017.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 01:12 PM) They traded two. Miller has TOR stuff if, he is still young and really just had a bad season which happens to young guys and Tyrell Jenkins who has the stuff to be a #2 or 3. Really great trade for the Braves getting two really high ceiling rotation guys for one season of a mediocre offensive OF and an overpriced RP. Heyward is not a mediocre offensive outfielder and he is a phenomenal defensive outfielder. Otherwise, I won't argue the remainder - I disagree but not to the point that I think you're wrong or mistaken.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 12:54 PM) For the sox to actually be winning this year morales would have to bounce back big. His number last year were horrible. Granted he signed later but dunn sadly put up some better numbers then him. Brandon Mccarthy made 32 starts which is the most he has ever made in a season. He also hit 200 innings for the first time in his career. His next closes inning pitched previously was 170 and 135. He can't stay healthy. He had a 5.01 era in the national league. He did get better when he came to the yankees but that will probably make his annually cost increase and can you believe he continues to pitch that well. Hammel pitched really well in the nl but got beat up when he came back to the al. Signing those guys will hurt If the sox are supposedly contending and they don't live up to career years. QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 01:10 PM) Not alot but you not going to need to totally shop in the luxury aisle. If you look at the Giants and royals who went to the world series they had alot of in house talent. Other players they acquired through with good prospects. Also signed by spending some money to get players. The sox don't have the luxury of a good deep farm system to acquire the likes of hunter pence or james shields. So they go route of trying to target talent through smarter moves like getting Eaton or davidson. Also have have try to spend wisely cause of the higher payroll with players they were stuck with. Now the have a chance to spend but be smart about it. You are essentially arguing against yourself in these two posts.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 12:54 PM) For the sox to actually be winning this year morales would have to bounce back big. His number last year were horrible. Granted he signed later but dunn sadly put up some better numbers then him. Brandon Mccarthy made 32 starts which is the most he has ever made in a season. He also hit 200 innings for the first time in his career. His next closes inning pitched previously was 170 and 135. He can't stay healthy. He had a 5.01 era in the national league. He did get better when he came to the yankees but that will probably make his annually cost increase and can you believe he continues to pitch that well. Hammel pitched really well in the nl but got beat up when he came back to the al. Signing those guys will hurt If the sox are supposedly contending and they don't live up to career years. OK, you still haven't said why you'd be unhappy. You're basically pointing out the strengths and weaknesses of these players, all of which I am quite aware (though Hammel and McCarthy are perfectly capable starting pitchers having pitched well in both the AL and NL in their past). What if McCarthy was signed to a 2 year, $20 million deal? You'd be unhappy with that? Because I'd call that one of the steals of the offseason if it happened. And if you signed Hammel to a 1 year, $8 million deal, you'd be unhappy? I'd say that's a perfect acceptable move and if it bombs, then there's no long-term risk whatsoever. If the Sox gave Morales an incentive-laden, 1 year, $5 million deal? I'd love to have him act as essentially the full time DH for the Sox. I don't see them winning the division quite yet this year unless a lot of things broke right for them, so taking chances on players like that is a perfectly suitable and acceptable philosophy for the 2015 White Sox.

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 12:49 PM) Also, for the record, I don't think any team trading for Cutler is a good move for that team. BUT, it seems to have been established that there is in fact interest in Cutler. So who are those teams? My main guess would be Tennessee because: - They have had no good QBs for years and years - They have a coach who seems to want to use veterans who suck over youth (see Sankey, Bishop behind Shonn Greene) - Their organization seems to be very stupid and boring and trading for Cutler seems like the spicy and stupid move that would make them feel productive. Re: Sankey, it could also be that they want to save his legs a little bit for when the team is competitive while also working on his footwork a little better and perhaps having him watch on the sideline. I think it used to be that running backs could play right away and wide outs needed a year on the sideline to learn the offense, terminology, and route trees, but the more the college game has gone toward pro style offenses with relatively basic defenses, the more these receivers already know the offense and the running backs need help learning play calls and blitz pickups.

QUOTE (Real @ Nov 15, 2014 -> 01:30 AM) Were there any players who were picked after these guys (referring to 1st round picks only) that aren't completely irrelevant/injured in their respective teams systems up to this point? 2007 - Aaron Poreda (1st round, 25th overall) 2008 - Gordon Beckham (1st round, 8th overall) 2009 - Jared Mitchell (1st round, 23rd overall), 2009 - Josh Phegley (1st round Supp. pick, 37th overall) 2011 - Keenyn Walker (1st round Supp. pick, 47th overall) 2012 - Courtney Hawkins (1st round, 13th overall) 2013 - Tim Anderson (1st round, 17th overall) Not mentioning Rodon as he's still untested obviously the draft is more/less a lottery ticket, but this team is notorious for high draft picks busting out due to either injuries, or the inability to develop them (especially position players) It's hard to know for sure this early on, but the two guys who were drafted with the Sox second pick the last two years - Tyler Danish and Spencer Adams - are both very talented prospects, Tim Anderson could easily be a top 50 prospect (if not held in even higher regard), and Rodon is likely going to end up being a top 10-20 prospect as well. They've been much better the last two seasons.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 12:40 PM) I for one would be ecstatic about Miller and Robertson if they add 1 more SP to the mix. Once they add Rodon to the mix with Sale, Q, said SP, and Danks/Noesi/Bassitt that's gonna be a pitching staff, as a whole that's gonna win you a lot of ball games. It might be a lot of low scoring games but a W is a W. And your OF defense is still pretty terrible overall too. They need to bring in at least one outfielder this offseason and preferably two. Going into the year with your top 5 outfielders being Eaton, Garcia, Viciedo, Danks, and Shuck is not good. The two after that are Mitchell and Thompson.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 12:32 PM) Yes you can bargain shop sometimes but if you fully want to compete the you have to spend some money. Let's remember the sox kinda bargain shopped in 04 for the 05 season and nobody would have thought they would win the world series. It took alot to go right for them to win.This past year they had alot of payroll already so they went for the buy low guys. Eaton and gillaspie where on teams that had players blocking them so they were more expendable. Noesi was a take what you can get cause the sox desperately needed starting pitcher after losing 3 starters. They have the money to spend to get some better quality this year. I don't have a problem with getting low buy with high upside but If the sox go buy low route like rasmus, morales, Hammel, Mccarthy or Masterson this year then I won't be happy The Sox aren't going to be in on Rasmus anyways, but if they signed Morales, Hammel, McCarthy, or Masterson, I don't know why you'd be unhappy. Morales seems like a perfect buy low candidate who could bounce back in a big way, and I love the idea of acquiring Hammel or McCarthy. If they don't work, it's not going to hurt as much as signing a guy like Scherzer is going to.

QUOTE (flavum @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 12:18 PM) Not that it's going to happen, because it's not...but if the Sox announced that they signed matching 4 yr/36 mil contracts for David Robertson and Andrew Miller, what would your reaction be? My initial reaction would be "What else are they going to do?" You just don't spend $18 million on two relievers and call it quits at that point. They'd have to add at least one starter and one outfielder, and you could argue that they could add another outfielder beyond that and perhaps an additional catcher.

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 12:10 PM) That Lakers team is so bad, and I hope some will now realize why I laughed at Byron Scott's retreat hiring again. Pretty sure he's just a fall guy. "Hey come coach us for a little bit, here's free money, we're going to fire you in 2 years or so anyways."

I like talking about players we talked about as possible Sox targets ending up somewhere else in PHT. What are your thoughts on this move, Soxtalk? Glad (like I am) that the Sox didn't offer that much for him?

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 11:35 AM) Tho you have to love the 2 and half ish years the sox got of crain. Yeah, I have no problem if they make a signing similar to the one they made for Jesse Crain. Basically, for Andrew Miller to justify the cost of his free agent contract, he's going to have to pitch like Jesse Crain did for the White Sox, but he'll have to do it all 4 years.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 11:20 AM) Everyone is on the Cubs nuts with what they are going to do, yet the Cardinals out of nowhere just won the off season. Getting Heyward and Walden for Miller who they weren't high on is an amazing trade for St Louis. Way too early to say anyone won the offseason, but this has not been a good day for the Cubs.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 11:12 AM) Times have changed in baseball. At that time, that was an expensive deal for middle relief pitching. What? No it wasn't. Scott Linebrink signed a 4 year, $19 million deal prior to the 2008 season and Dotel signed for 2 years and $11 million. It was a risky deal because it was a middle reliever. Crain's ERAs in the 4 years prior to signing with the Sox: 2007: 5.51 2008: 3.59 2009: 4.70 2010: 3.04

This is why organizations like the Cardinals continue to compete year after year. What an absolutely phenomenal trade.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 11:12 AM) Ed Davis is a minus-5 in 236 minutes this season, while starting power forward Carlos Boozer is a minus-118 in 277 minutes. LOL

QUOTE (Baron @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 11:11 AM) 3 for 30 last I read So 4/$40 isn't a stretch.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 11:00 AM) Jesse Crain was really good until the last year of his contract when he got hurt. That was a heavy investment in relief pitching. Jesse Crain signed a 3 year, $13 million deal. Andrew Miller might sign for 3x that amount and more than 2x the AAV.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 11:00 AM) 7 Scott linebrink really should have never been signed in the first place. His 3.55 era with Milwaukee was the best in 3 years and that's was being traded to them in the season. He was also a primarily nl guy before the sox signed him. The one year of belisario and downs is why the bullpen sucked so bad. Those buy low guys with chance of high upside killed us last year. Paulino, Cleto, Boggs, Veal etc. Signing buy low types with upside netted the Cubs Jake Arrieta and it certainly helped them get Addison Russell. To abandon that because it didn't work out a couple times is absurd. (also not sure why you included Cleto, Veal, or Boggs...Boggs pitched in exactly 0 games with the MLB team last year, Veal represented depth, and Cleto was a waiver claim) I've been saying this a lot lately, but if this were next year, I'd be a lot more interested in signing these guys. Andrew Miller just doesn't make sense for $10 mill a year for a team that's in the rebuilding process. This is year 2 of the rebuild and while they can still be competitive, I don't think you'll see them be considered a favorite until 2016. Being patient and spending money wisely would be far better than spending all of it just because they have it. Frankly, if the Sox go out and commit an additional $50 mill per year for the next 3-5 years, then what do the Sox do next year when they have additional openings come up and they need to be filled? Are you going to trade the minor leaguers at that point?

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 10:55 AM) Was there more to this Cutler trade thing from Michael Wright? Is he just confirming bears COULD trade cutler (and like, ok duh) or that there are rumors they WILL. What teams would legitimately trade for Jay Cutler? About the only team I can think of that would have any semblance of interest is legitimately Buffalo, and that scares the holy bejesus out of me.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 10:34 AM) It's better than spending $7 million a year on Downs and Belisario. Why? Miller could just as easily get hurt and be a shell of his former self and his addition by itself is not going to take the Sox from 75 wins to 88 wins. Frankly, it could be a worse contract than Scott Linebrink was for the White Sox. At least with Belisario and Downs, there was no committment beyond 1 year.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 10:29 AM) So again we want 2 worst guys then miller. Again thatcher and duke are 2 and 3 years older then miller. Both thatcher and duke have been primarily national league pitchers. Thatcher comes over to the angels during the season and era balloons up to a 8.53. Let's also look at the batting average against them from 2011 to 2014 as relievers: Thatcher 2011 .216, 2012 .250, 2013 .267, 2014 .293 Duke 2011 .296, 2012 .212, 2013 .291, 2014 .223 Miller 2011 .259, 2012 .194, 2013 .217, 2014 .181 To me that shows that thatcher average against is going up pretty nicely over the years. Duke is pretty much a jekyll and hyde. Miller is a bit more consistent then both plus he's done it in the al Miller is also going to cost around $40 million for 4 years, and he's been fairly inconsistent as well. It's no surprise that the White Sox have interest in Miller but if they ultimately sign him for $10 mill a year over 4 years, I'll be a bit upset.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 10:12 AM) In an ideal world, Webb would get some more seasoning. He was shaky at best in the 2nd half. There's no need for Webb to start in AAA. He needs to throw strikes and command the strike zone, and working on that at the MLB level would be in his best interest. I don't think you are going to suggest that Avisail Garcia start in AAA, but he struggled once he got back to the majors too.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 09:59 AM) I really feel like the end of the bullpen is in place. We have guys to be long relievers, middle relievers, and maybe even set up men. The problem in 2013 was that they were all asked to do jobs above their paygrade by a level or two. If we find good guys for the back end of the pen, guys like Petricka, Putnam, and company all slide back an inning or two, and will be in much better shape. That's similar to how I feel. The two moves of significance I want to see the Sox make are bringing in a closer and a lefty. I'm not sure who those guys are at this point. From there, bring in a bunch of minor league free agents to throw in the pen and see if anything rises to the surface. At this point, I'm perfectly content going with [closer], [lefty], Petricka, Putnam, Guerra, Webb, and Surkamp.