caulfield12

http://hoopshabit.com/2013/03/27/top-10-wo...mes-in-history/ The Cow Palace, Salt Palace, Amway Arena (at least connected to ownership group) and Sleep Train Arena/Power Balance Pavilion are the only ones that even come close. And those aren't markets that are anything similar to Chicago.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 06:48 AM) caulfield wont take a girlfriend there because the name is on the ticket! Obviously they could care less what anyone thinks...and I'm married anyway. But imagine going on your first date and your gf keeps the ticket stubs as a memory in her scrapbook and the first thing you read in big bold letters is Guaranteed Rate Field. It's bush league.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 06:16 AM) Eh, you can rationalize this all you want, but you are still missing the essential truth at the base of it all. If the fanbase invests in the franchise, the franchise is better for it. If they don't, they are worse off. The results of the fan base are right in front of you. If they were investing your retirement funds this poorly, would you still keep piling in bad money after good in blind faith and hope it eventually has to turn around? Isn't it reasonable for Sox fans to do the same...to at least expect to have a clear decision-maker in charge who is accountable for performance? Even the best mutual fund manager in history...who beat the S&P Index an improbable thirteen consecutive years (like the Braves' playoff streak)...was rewarded with less than half the rope that KW and Hahn are being extended.

I don't think it will be easy to market a guaranteed 20 game loser in the offseason to other GM's or their own dwindling season ticket base....

QUOTE (Donaldo @ Aug 24, 2016 -> 06:48 PM) I agree with your point, but I think you're selling a few guys a little short. Mike Morse hit .276 with 104 HR and 352 RBI over his 12 year career. He was a pretty solid player; sometimes you have to give up something to get something. Olivo wasn't a great catcher, but he was pretty good (both offensively and defensively). The M's also sent us Ben Davis, a good defensive catcher who couldn't hit his way out of a paper bag. IMO, both sides benefited from that trade. Gio Gonzalez and Fautino de los Santos for Nick Swisher... BAD TRADE Kip Wells, Sean Lowe, and Josh Fogg for Todd Ritchie... BAD TRADE Shouldergate was a disaster for both teams (IIRC, Toronto GM Gord Ash actually lost his job over that trade). You're forgetting Ryan Sweeney, who was a serviceable bench player amid occasional bursts of starting glory throughout his career. He did enough to attract one last payday from the Cubs.

QUOTE (captain54 @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 12:35 AM) My GF doesn't follow baseball. Doesn't follow the Sox or Cubs. Doesn't know anything about naming rights. She's the least knowledgeable person about sports I believe I've ever met When I told her about the new name for the south side baseball "stadium", her response was..laughter Then. "That is really ridiculous" Is she a troll? Can't imagine buying a girlfriend or date tickets as a gift that read "Guaranteed Rate Field" across their face in bold. Makes it look like you're a Cheap Charlie.

"Guaranteed Rate Field? Stay classy White Sox. Oh that's right. You're not." Direct quote from someone who almost NEVER razzes me about the Sox and didn't even comment as we descended from first to fourth place this summer. https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/white-sox-...-211443685.html Barstool Dave has now made it big in the UK...

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Aug 24, 2016 -> 11:32 PM) This is just another opportunity for trolls to try to spin this in some negative way. The fact is that naming rights have been around as long as inflated player salaries have been. Look around ANY major league ballpark and see signs for WINTRAUST, NUVEEN, Budweiser, XFinity,... plastered on everything in and around the ballpark. It's just part of the business. Fans don't have to call Sox Park anything but Sox Park or Comiskey. I certainly won't. This is why this board is currently so polarized. The few remaining defenders of the Kingdom, and the barbarians at the gates. Calling out 90% of those who are expressing displeasure with this as "trolls" is a bit much. It could be worse, like Enron or Theranos or a company so disreputable, you wouldn't want a professional baseball team associated it. Honestly, it's QUITE difficult to think of a worse name for the four major sports. Can YOU? Would the Yankees or Mets go with SCORES Stadium? That at least would have an association with baseball and scoring runs, which is still eminently better than G-Spot Stadium. O.Co is close, but at least it's not a name that will be "used against" the A's in a negative way if they should continue to founder, not in the same way those down arrows (and the Brooks Boyer quote even, when the pitchers have an ERA of 5+ next April) and the idea of anything in the world being "guaranteed," it's just going to be used to make the White Sox a laughingstock yet again...which seems to be the theme now of this entire season after the peak of 23-10 on May 6th.

How much money Guaranteed Rate is doling out for the 13-year naming rights hasn’t been announced, but the company already has some big-ticket items on its expenses list. Earlier this year, a jury awarded another mortgage company more than $25 million in a lawsuit that alleged a former employee and Guaranteed Rate had engaged in “corporate espionage.’’ Guaranteed Rate’s portion will be $22.7 million. How about Guaranteed Rate Hike Field? “It doesn’t have that good of a ring to it,’’ Sox outfielder Adam Eaton said. “I don’t really know what to say about it. What is it called again?’’ Eaton and Sale are definitely leading the team this year in opening their mouths and saying something that will end up making the Sox look dumb....the spin going on is quite amazing, "well, I guess we can support this new name because the company was founded by Chicagoans or locals/natives, so that sort of makes it not terrible or at least okay/MEH"

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Aug 24, 2016 -> 09:31 PM) One thing wrong with your comment I'm not a JR hater. I respect the fact that he's a self made millionaire and have said that repeatedly. He's also a brilliant businessman and real estate guy. That does not make him a baseball expert or a savant when it comes to the game. We'll just have to disagree, Sox fans are smarter than that to support a garbage, s***ty franchise. They are under NO obligation, none, zero, nada to support crap just like any consumer is under no obligation to support a bad eatery, a lousy supermarket or a bad business. There is no difference especially when said team got their stadium out of tax dollars and didn't even pay for it themselves (unlike say the Giants owner who built that stadium out of his own pocket or the former Dolphins owner Joe Robbie) Want to know a big reason why the Cubs were s*** for decades? It's because they sold out every game win or lose. The motivation for ownership to spend millions to put a winning team on the field was exactly none. But again you are free to offer your opinions and I respect them. I respect the fact as well that you consistently stick to your guns. Mark It's somewhat analogous to that current GoFundMe trend of raising money for funerals/tributes/memorials. The White Sox, at least their current iteration, are more like the recent case in California where a 21 year old girl deliberately ignored the safety/warning signs and climbed over a retaining wall (that was clearly meant to protect tourists and selfie takers from falling off the nearby cliff, or coming close enough to do so)...and then she was walking along in a rocky area with rubber flip flops instead of the proper hiking/climbing shoes. It's still a tragedy, she died when she fell off the cliff to the bottom 100 feet below, but I'm definitely not going to contribute $20, $50 or $100 to her family's gofundme campaign. A lot of their struggles/financial limitations are SELF-INDUCED, to use a Hawkism. There are plenty of wonderful causes, just like there are plenty of professional baseball teams who seem to have a plan going forward, even a strategic competitive vision...but the White Sox are definitely not one of them. Just recently, the only team posters could name that MIGHT be worse than the Sox in terms of front office incompetence is the Arizona Diamondbacks. That's just not an easy sell since 2008, when families are much tighter about their discretionary/entertainment dollars. When we start talking about "feeling sympathy" or saying things like Brooks Boyer should get a raise, that's all you need to know about the current malaise, and his comments attempting to tie in lower pitcher ERA's to guaranteed low rates are beyond ridiculous when you look at the struggles of James Shields and the Sox bullpen this year...or basically any of the starters not named Q or Sale.

Can we have a "guaranteed to be mired in mediocrity" company also become a secondary sponsor? We're not THE ABSOLUTE worst...we're usually floating within 5-7 games over the .500 mark most seasons, etc. That's something to proudly trumpet to the heavens. How about a tie-in with the t.v. show "Slackers"?

Just the idea of "Guaranteed Rate" carved into actual concrete at 35th and Shields is cringe worthy. US Cellular just doesn't seem so intrusive...maybe because US at least seems or feels like it could be patriotic or something you might be able to be proud about. About the only positive I can think of is their ability to execute and leverage this agreement to also sign a NEW deal with a cell phone service provider that brings in another revenue stream. If they don't take advantage of that, you'd have a difficult time arguing the benefits financially outweigh the negatives (already discussed for multiple pages) that come with this agreement. Guaranteed Fail Down arrows... Guaranteed cheap seats they can't give away Guaranteed Dysfunction Guaranteed Bullpen Blowup Guaranteed Matt Albers Appearance Guaranteed Parking Profits

QUOTE (InTheDriversSeat @ Aug 24, 2016 -> 06:46 PM) Cubs fans are hypocrites because the Chicago Cubs are one of the leaders with sponsorships from corporations in the financial services industry: Nuveen Investments, CBRE (Coldwell Banker Real Estate), Wintrust, etc. Apparently Guaranteed Rate is buying advertising / sponsorship directly from the Sox as well, separate from the naming rights revenue which goes to IFSA: http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article/197...-naming-rights/ I suspect the previous contract with U.S. Cellular prohibited the Sox from selling advertising / sponsorships to other competing wireless telecommunications companies (AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile, Verizon, etc.). Having the exclusive contract with U.S. Cellular now gone, opens the door for the Sox to sell new sponsorships to U.S. Cellular competitors. This isn't the first time that U.S. Cellular has terminated naming rights at a venue. Indoor arenas at Milwaukee and Bloomington, Illinois were previously known as 'U.S. Cellular Arena' and 'U.S. Cellular Coliseum'. . Well, banks are "cooler" than savings & loans or credit unions. Not as cool as hedge funds and venture capital firms, however. On the bottom tier would have to be anything to do with real estate, especially "cut rate/discount" lending firms...it conjures up images of scams and accounting tricks such ARM's or interest only loans, predatory lending, usury, Payday loans, etc.

The class action complaint alleges that the mortgage lender unlawfully paid loan officers below minimum wage, failed to compensate them for overtime hours worked and unjustly deducted expenses from previously earned wages, in violation of state wage and hour laws. The complaint asserts that Guaranteed Rate incorrectly and intentionally classified loan officers as “outside salespeople,” making them exempt from some minimum wage and overtime regulations. However, these outside sales employees claim to have spent more than 50 percent of their working time in their homes, which the employees argue is considered the employer’s places of business for purposes of the outside sales exemption from minimum and overtime wage laws. https://www.bigclassaction.com/lawsuit/guar...lass-action.php Great, the Uber of loan companies. Will fit right in with Sox plans, schemes and off-season themes...

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Aug 24, 2016 -> 06:44 AM) Lol that's the best part of it. Him wanting the Sox to wait until after the draft and then acting like he wanted the Sox to sign him from the beginning. Were the Sox EVER going to give up the draft pick for him? The answer to that was obviously no. Ergo, the only possibly way they would have signed him would be the same way in which Morales signed with the Twins and Drew with the Yankees two years ago. Not rocket science. And obviously the Rangers are a much better run organization than the Sox, because they already have enough power arms in their pen and minors the draft pick is more or less immaterial.

Do we have an emoji/icon available with a Sox fan holding his head down in shame/humiliation/embarrassment?

Wonder how many predatory lending cases/lawsuits they've been involved in...ala Countrywide? So US Cellular was paying this same amount as G Rate will and not even in the Chicago market any longer and yet the best they could do was maintain the amount they were paid years ago, with essentially no allowance for inflation...so actually the amount they're making is decreasing into the future? Sounds about right. And we're magically going to more than double our broadcast rights fees? Between the negative associations with rape/Southside and the down arrow....how does Boyer keep his job? Unless the White Sox are in first place or ERA is lowest....their dowtrending overall record, off field nonsense or James Shields' latest ERA will all be fodder for showing a video highlight with that stupid down error. It's almost kind of genius for sponsors to get additional exposure....surprised it wasn't Ryan Lochte Field the way things are going. Can they do a further subcontract to Tony the Tiger, and Kellogg's? They're gggggggggg-rate!

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 24, 2016 -> 05:19 AM) No. It shows the way you wanted him wasn't availalable. When you were constantly told he won't make it to June you stayed the course. $10 million for Latos, $8 million for Parra and his -1.3 WAR. Of course you keep popping off about Finnegan and his -0.2 WAR, so you have a thing for below replacement players. At least Latos put up a 0.0 for the $10 million you would have given him. And no Shields didn't cost more than those guys combined. You are lying again Donald. So it's somehow my fault the White Sox spent four times as much on James Shields...and missed out on getting back another compensation pick in 2017? They're not going to get anything back for Shields...hopefully you're taking that into consideration. If you go through that thread, I probably spent 1-2% of it on Parra and Latos and 98% of the time talking about Desmond. The way I wanted him was the only conceivable way the White Sox were going to get him...remember back then? They were only willing to give up to three years on Alex Gordon (which you wholeheartedly endorsed while I was tepid at best on that move, despite my appreciation for what he has previously accomplished), Cespedes and Upton, who wasn't even interested in the Sox. We can't be 100% sure or not whether they were willing to surrender the pick for Fowler, which would have been another positive move. If you add my $10 million for Latos, $8 million for Parra and the money the Rangers paid Desmond (minus another $2 million saved on their bonus pool), that would be $24 million for those three vs. $27 million for the James Shields commitment...and they would have even gotten a draft pick back for Desmond in 2017. Where does Carlos Rodon rank in WAR? Where does Mr. Duffy? Do you want to explain all your quotes throughout the years ripping him when they couldn't have been more off base had you thrown darts against a wall in order to determine which players to sign. Actually, the White Sox would be better off just making one of those prize barrels from The Bozo Show and just picking three to five random free agent names every year and allocating whatever was the agreed upon money....like putting the same amount of money into a mutual fund the 15th of the month regardless of market conditions.

Do we still control Turner's rights next season? Arbitration? Might as well try to see what Nate Jones can bring back in trade.

It has to happen next July....because of Frazier, Cabrera, Lawrie and probably the best remaining opportunity to get Robertson off the books.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 05:32 PM) http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=97876 Just read the first post in this thread you started, without hindsight of course. And read the entire thread. It has your offer of $10 million for Latos, $8 million for Parra and $10 million for Desmond in June. You were told several times Desmomd wouldn't be around in June, but you stuck with it. You say Hahn was scared, looks like you were too. So I was off by $2 million on Desmond. Wow. I overvalued him slightly, whereas there there less than five in that thread who wanted ANYTHING to do with him at all. Did Latos' agent send me his medical records that you know of? Pretty hard to know exactly what you're getting without opening the hood and seeing exactly what's left of the engine in order to make a legitimate bid. Parra signed three years for $27.5 million and an additional option for 2019, so I was close on that one as well. So basically it's my fault when I was predicting what the White Sox would do...which was not offer Desmond because they weren't willing to give up that precious draft pick that you keep saying has a negligible value in terms of career WAR from the #26 spot. You don't say anything about my assessment of him as an outfielder or all of the many pluses I mentioned consistently throughout. You're so consumed proving I was wrong on a technicality because he didn't make it to Jone, which actually proves my point is that he was a bargain that interested a number of well-run teams who can properly define "plus or added value." And Matt Latos alone was still able to contribute a lot more meaningful wins to the Sox than someone who costs more than Parra/Austin Jackson, Latos and Ian Desmond combined in James Shields...brilliant.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 09:35 PM) Yet, his FIP and ERA+ say otherwise. So how have the White Sox missed on so many of their appraisals??? Dunn in 2011, it's fair to say he came fairly close to earning his money the rest of those years, especially 2012, but never got past 2011 nightmare LaRoche Bonifacio Beckham Cabrera earned his money this year, but was a major contributor to the terrible start in 2015 Robertson...well-documented Duke Basically all of the free agents this past offseason have been fair to middling. Navarro has been terrible, and Avila (predictably) hurt and not much better. Jackson hurt, and was in the mid 600's for OPS, so basically replacement level. Rollins and Latos (probably the best bargain in terms of money spent for wins gained). Morneau has been fine, but we won't get anything in return for him and he's actually blocking Coats or Garcia from playing, if they do actually plan to go into next season with one or both on the roster. Not to mention Jacob Turner. The previous class, you have Abreu, and lots of MEH. Other than picking up Jennings, Putnam and Gonzalez, it has been one disaster after another. To this day, I still don't understand why they keep trotting out Matt Albers to the mound. We played Alexei (who is even worse in 2016) down the stretch in 2015 instead of Saladino, and have been playing Navarro a lot when he's been one of the worst players in all of MLB. Not to mention all those names like Kelly Downs and Paulino...you simply can't be 1/15 or 1/20 getting "surplus value" out of free agents and expect to be competitive when you have a bottom quartile farm system during that same time period.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 04:42 PM) No. You would be calling for Hahn's law degree. But kings of Chicago. Hindsight is great. With a few hiccups like not understanding guys with stress fractures of their ribs can't help your bullpen, even you can figure out "what should have been done." Without it, you make these guys look like geniuses. If you use WAR to determine a players worth, your idea of Gerrardo Parra for $8 million wouldn't work out. WAR wise he would be the worst player on the White Sox. He would blow Avi away. I would still take any of those moves over James Shields. Because the payroll impact wouldn't be carrying over into next season. And obviously we're the anti-Kings of Chicago now with people paid millions of dollars to get these things right. Even when they're consistently wrong, they still get to keep their jobs, mystifyingly. And almost nobody bought that Ian Desmond would have any value as an outfielder coming into this season (bring up the thread where I have literally 100 posts saying we should pursue him, before this season)...I was wrong that the White Sox would still be able to sign him in June, but that's because you have a good GM and manager in Texas who actually know what they're doing and how to assess talent. They also don't have to get caught up in preserving supplemental draft picks when they have an already established minor league talent pipeline. Hahn was too afraid Desmond wouldn't work out and there would be nothing left to show for the Shark deal. Glad you don't work for the Sox...because you said over and over again how terrible Danny Duffy is but that we should sign Alex Gordon. Lovely. I will give you credit for one thing. You finally manned up and admitted Semien has been decent instead of continuing to recite his error totals the first half of last season.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 10:00 AM) Rick Hahn was very popular here when all those moves were made. When they failed, they became KW moves. In fact, the one poster who rips all these moves the most, and tells you what should have happened, went one farther. He loved all these moves so much, he said Hahn and KW would be kings of Chicago if they could then complete their offseason and land Matt Kemp. Hahn does still enjoy back up QB status with many. But he does hold some responsibility for all these moves. If he has nothing to do with it but go to the media and explain the reasoning for making them, he should have done the honorable thing and quit his job. Even Matt Kemp with money coming back the other way would have been a much better move for that theoretical offense than James Shields, as/when Danks and Latos were both putting up much better numbers in the rotation.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 23, 2016 -> 03:25 PM) The irony is of course that after Samardjiza's worst season ever, he got a huge contract, and has been pretty good this year. Of course if you looked at his stats, you would know that his FIP last year with 3/4 of a full run better than his ERA, meaning that statistically he wasn't a bad pitcher, just extremely unlucky. This year his ERA is very close to his FIP, and there you go. An ERA well into the 4's is good in SF? Cueto's been much better. Of course, many local/regional fans bought into this idea Shark's a Cy Young guy too, but the results have never measured up to the hype.