caulfield12

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Aug 27, 2016 -> 06:39 AM) You can throw 93-95 while being bad too? Either way, he's having great success this year whether he throws 86-89 or 93-95. Hahn at least got a guy with minor upside for the worst player in baseball. With how many pitchers are throwing 95+ right now, 92-94 is almost more dangerous than in the upper 80's used to be because there are so many good arms now... As far as that velocity goes, just depends on movement and location. Matt Thornton fell from 96-98 into the mid to low 90s and that was the death of him. Well, that and the bomb Thome hit off him second half 2010...along with the All-Star game that year. We've all seen Nate Jones get lit up a lot in that same 96-98 range...due to that hitch in his motion and how he makes it easier to identify pitch type than others who are much more deceptive.

If you had to choose between Coats, Avi, Colby Rasmus and Puig, most rational fans would know that Puig can certainly bust but has a lot of potential upside left, too.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Aug 27, 2016 -> 12:45 AM) Jesus what a thread. It would be nice to win and be relevant just to avoid threads like this. But yea margulas is basically ss2k15 born 15 years later imo. He can critique but mostly it's just pro org bulletin points and the comments section, led by pnoles, is mostly an echo chamber. At least here there is less groupthink. He's actually been pretty critical and sarcastic this year...he's definitely not Davey Crockett or Sam Bowie.

The Blue Jays are going to give up someone who has been crazy good for Navarro? Call me skeptical. I'm sure we could unearth equally glowing Nestor Molina, Zach Stewart and Chris Marquez praise.

As long as he doesn't have a knife. I could actually see him going around the ballpark and turning the guaranteed rate arrows in the up direction if he were to give up 8-9 runs in 2+ innings sometime next April.

Seattle, Houston, KC and the Yankees miraculously all in it... And Baltimore without Tillman now. Seems it will come down to that usual 88-89 win total. For KC and Houston, that would mean 21/22 and 13/12 loss finishes. The only teams that would have better final stretches would be the 2013 LAD and 2015 Blue Jays. 7-19 in July followed by 18-6 so far in August.

We'll first be forced to watch Nate Jones struggle at closer for a couple of months after Robertson is traded in the offseason...then Burdi will get the job when there is less pressure.

Well, think we now have a pretty good idea why the Red Sox weren't willing to trade Mookie Betts... At any rate, this game was pretty much must-win with Seattle struggling to hold so many leads the past week.

The next Wunsch/Wasserman/Bradford type. I think Takatsu at his age might still be more effective.

Shouldn't it be mierda?

They should sign Beltran (the 9th inning field charger) to a contract...at least he has good baserunning instincts.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 11:51 AM) The rnc abandoned dole in 96 to focus on congressional races, but that was because everyone knew it was a quixotic campaign and not because dole was a horrible person they couldn't be tied to. They still supported and endorsed him, it was more of a funding shift. I think you need to go back to goldwater to find a similar example of am anti establishment fringe wing winning the nomination and getting rejected by at least some of the party leadership openly in the general election. The parties had more ideological overlap/mixing at the time, though, so I don't know if it was as stark and jarring. The Democrats had gone through the dixiecrat stuff a little before that for example. Re: religion the reason that there are so many regional protestant denominations in America is historically due to ideological splits over slavery. McGovern for the Dems as well in 1972....that and the 1964 election really stand out.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 04:44 PM) It's just weird to me seeing Saladino higher than Abreu. What does that even mean ? Abreu couldn't possibly be costing the Sox more with his glove than he contributes with his bat. Even Coats in his very limited playing time gets a .2 > I know 1st base isn't a position that can generate a lot of defensive WAR but even in a down hitting year which is improving rapidly Abreu still generates more run production than Eaton though he may not be more valuable to the team. I think b/f WAR overvalues walks and defense I am a huge believer that the Sox need more OBP guys and was a huge proponent of getting better defensive players but when Avila gets a .7 and Abreu just a .4 something is amiss somewhere. A guy like Heyward gets a huge contract and one bad offensive year makes it look like a joke he ever got that kind of contract. Heyward hasn't even had a really good season from a power-hitting perspective since the beginning of his Braves' career. Before all those advanced stats became popular, wonder what kind of FA deal he would have received....let's sat 20 year ago? About 50% less? Age was the main factor benefitting him, and the defensive metrics. This type of chart almost makes trading Eaton at peak value and blowing everything up seem even more logical. Eaton, Sale and Q are never going to be worth more.

What possible indicator do we have...objectively...that Hahn/Williams would be able to make this team a contender with another $25 million per season to spend? It seems logical enough, but there's not much evidence to support it. The best White Sox team in the last 15 years ago had one of, if not the smallest payrolls of any of those teams. If White Sox fans were Cubs-like sheeple attending games oblivious to the dismal results, there would be even less likelihood of changes being made. Look what that pressure did this year in April and early May. Forced Danks off the roster, Rollins out and Anderson up, Latos...of course, it resulted in one of the worst moves of the season in the James Shields acquisition. None of that would have happened had the Sox started their more typical in recent years 10-23 than the opposite. And even if we had extra money this past offseason, it would have ended up in the pockets of Alex Gordon and not Cespedes or Upton, so we wouldn't be any better off...the situation would objectively be worse because Hahn and KW would keep losing even bigger money bets. The attendance actually lowers their ability to make dumb decisions. And they've shown little sign of wanting to invest more than they are allocated to international free agents under 21...Cuban, Korean, Japanese players, minor league instruction and development, scouting, etc. those are the best ways to improve the final product on the field, not just changing a couple of faces in Paddy and Hostetler.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 07:50 AM) Once again you make things up. I didn't praise anyone. I just stated facts. The Cubs had consecutive seasons of 75, 71, 61 ,66, and 73 wins. During those 5 seasons of what you would call unacceptable embarrassment by any team, they averaged almost 2.9 million fans a season, paying prices White Sox fans would not like. It allows your front office to do things the White Sox cannot. But you already knew that because you have been talking doom and gloom of White Sox finances for several years now. Of course, if it doesn't fit what you currently are complaining about, you forget you ever posted it. But please become a Cubs fan today. Ummm....no....they actually had a plan. And executed it. It's four years into Hahn's regime and nobody has the first clue what he and KW are in "lockstep" about... It's not doom and gloom about finances but how inefficiently they allocate their money. Terrible ROI. Pretty hard to forget anything I've ever posted since you are monitoring every comment and storing it in your cloud archive.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 06:54 AM) Jump on the Cubs bangwagon, assuming you are a civilian. I don't think anyone will miss you. I think you have been watching too many blue movies...besides, you are the one who keeps on praising them for attendance/support compared to Sox and Indians' fans.

That's what happens when you have the #1 farm system in baseball. Fans, even civilians like Andrew Berlin, get super-motivated to jump on board. Meanwhile, the Sox ship is foundering on the rocks because JR was unwilling to sell to someone willing to put 5X as much effort into running things. We hear from JR once a year, if lucky. With Berlin, he's super hands on and gives instantaneous feedback to his customers in South Bend. Some of that would change as a big league owner, but not the vision and commitment. It's also yet another reason Cubs' prospects are excelling while we're seemingly treading water at best. Near-sighted.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 09:30 PM) So they alienated fans by trading a free agent to be Sabatthia in 2008 when they were 13.5 games out in July and got Brantley, traded a free agent to be Cliff Lee and Victor Martinez in 2009 when they lost 97 games and got Carassco and Materson. and traded Jhonny Peralta in 2010 when they lost 93 games and he was going to be a free agent. I guess then the idea of trading Sale or Quintana would only alienate the fan base, so I am sure you are against it. Or pretty much trading anyone of substance even if they have 2 months left on their contract. What is bizarre is after 2007 their attendance dropped when every baseball fan knows you get a bump the year after. It continued to drop until 2011 when all those guys were gone and it rose almost 500k. A generation? It was 7 years of having a stacked team.as soon as that team sprung a leak, they fled. That isn't a trait of the best fans. Do you make up as much garbage in real life and assume people are so stupid they will buy it? You make things up and when called on it, instead of just admitting you are busted, you make up even more. It is really fascinating. Start using facts, not stuff you just make up. Well, if the White Sox had the ability to actually EXECUTE trades that brought back Lee/Sizemore/Phillips for Colon or Michael Brantley, maybe they wouldn't be so MEDIOCRE every year. Seeing that you're an expert on all things Cleveland, all those fans just KNEW 100% beyond a doubt in 2008 that all of those trades for prospects were going to work out? GREAT!!! We can just do the same thing, because that would at least give us playoff appearances in 2021 and 2023. For the first time in over a century of major league baseball, a team has traded away two Cy Young winners (Lee and Sabathia) in a row for prospects. Glad you made the point that even the BEST fans in baseball can feel alienated, as happened in Cleveland. (Because God forbid White Sox fans have never been accused of being great over even good fans). These fans just MAGICALLY fled...yeah, sure, right, that's EXACTLY what happened. And that's your logical explanation for how the best fans in baseball at that time MIRACULOUSLY became the WORST fans in baseball a generation later??? They just fled. For no apparent reason. Ask ANYONE in Cleveland if the fans were fully in support of the actions of the ownership group in 2007-2009. You will get a completely different answer. You don't have any facts either, by the way, just your hindsight to say what they did was logical and how it later worked out, but not what the process of going through that was like for the fans who had been patiently waiting for a World Series win... So...because those fans (in your theory, I guess) weren't patient enough for another rebuild, that actually has worked out fairly decently (two more playoff appearances in 2013 and 2016, so 2 playoffs in 9 years, which was about the average of the White Sox in the modern era until the last eight years happened)...they are conveniently labelled as 'BAD FANS'. You haven't once mentioned the degree of hatred and enmity which was engendered in Cleveland against the Dolans...which is completely, 100% the most important part of the story, and one you glossed over in your own little convenient bubble of truth. The irony is you turn around and consistently support the White Sox front office when they do EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE, which is holding onto assets too long and/or not trading them and watching all their trade value completely evaporate. No wonder White Sox fans are completely exasperated with the present state of affairs. So, to summarize, White Sox and Indians fans=bad, Cubs' fans=good. G-RATE!

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 07:27 PM) Again the year the White Sox won the World Series and were in first place every day of said season, they were in the bottom half of the league in attendance. Below the AL average. It will be they have to make the playoffs 2 years in a row, then 3. How did the Imdians alienate fans after the 2007 season? Was it trading CC when they were 37-51 and 13.5 games out in July? Or are you making things up again? Well, I'm sure if your favorite team just gotten to the World Series for the first time in a decade (after patiently waiting through a 3-5 year rebuilding period), only to see Sabathia, Cliff Lee, Peralta and Victor Martinez depart in quick order, you would be none too pleased. Making things up again? You know nothing about what Dolan has done to destroy that fanbase. These were THE BEST fans in baseball for a generation, they don't just give up on the franchise overnight. So try googling "Dolan hate Indians fans frustrated" and see what comes up.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 05:52 PM) So 2009 was lower than 2008.making the playoffs didn't help theSox, but I am sure there is another unique excuse. The fact is Most fans of teams look for reasons to go to games, Sox fans do the opposite, look for reasons not to go to games, such as your suggestion of Guaranteed Rate Field being on the ticket, and ruining a scrapbook opportunity. The horror. Hopefully the higher fee being paid will cover the loss of attendees due to a name on a ticket. And if attendance is so cut and dried, why do you make so many doom and gloom attendance posts every year? Mariners...new tv contract paying them $118 million per year, added hitting stars such as Cruz and Cano, uptick in attendance, much more competitive and have a good chance at the AL Wild Card if one of the AL East teams falters late Padres...well document, won the offseason of 2014-15 along with the White Sox, but are now in a committed rebuilding period, including dumping James Shields off on the White Sox, fans have been buying into that plan and blaming owner more than GM Marlins...worst owner in all of professional sports now that Sterling is gone (I suppose Daniel Snyder would get some votes, too), well document tear downs of numerous teams dating back to Huizenga after 1997 and 2003, and then Loria's "leadership," which included a GM being demoted to field manager in Dan Jennings. They do have Jose Fernandez, Giancarlo Stanton and a decent chance at the wild card spot. Beautiful new baseball stadium. So these are the only three organizations who have done worse at making the playoffs. All of them are sitting in better positions than the White Sox, both presently and for the future, with the exception possibly of Miami, Arizona, TB and Oakland. We're 25th in attendance, and you can argue quite logically we're the 26th best franchise in baseball, looking at current in-season results and minor league talent depth/prospect rankings. Cleveland is another situation, much like the Marlins, where the ownership group set the fanbase on fire by completely tearing down two mini-dynasties, especially alienating the fans after the 2007 season. But, at least, they hired one of the most respected managers in baseball and paid him as such. Everyone knows the Indians and Rockies routinely dueled over attendance trophies and Jacobs/Progressive set the record at the time for consecutive sell-outs (over a long, multi-year period).

Comparing us to the Red Sox, Yanks, Dodgers, Angels, Giants, etc., is a pointless endeavor. It's as helpful as comparing Reinsdorf to Illich.

Yes, and that 2007 team was terrible...not to mention the last 70 games of 2006 when they were 8 games below .500. That wiped out most of the bloom from winning the World Series. Every baseball fan knows the true attendance bump comes the following season after a playoff appearance. Not during, so much.

If you (meaning most Sox fans pointing the finger at the fanbase) didn't have such a connection to the Cubs and the last 20-30 years of their history...the White Sox would seem like any perfectly normal franchise in a decade long downturn, with fans acting accordingly. Outside of the Cubs and Cardinals, there just aren't any similar franchises whose fans support the team year after year, regardless of the results on the field. And even that started waning the first 2-3 years of the Epstein/Hoyer rebuild. The only other one that comes close is Milwaukee...to a lesser extent. (This can be mostly explained away by a commissioner of baseball for two decades making decisions to advance the interests of his daughter's franchise, especially the new stadium.) Instead of having anomalously bad fans, we are the normal condition that only seems or feels or is perceived to be an anomaly for the worse because of the Cubs and how the product on the field never mattered to their fans because so many were there at Wrigley just to get wasted in the bleachers around "hotties" or take part in their annual local Rotary or Kiwanis club shopping spree/Cubs Trip leaving from Des Moines on a charter bus.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 07:44 AM) I don't even know what your point is anymore. The White Sox also have employed players (just named two) not unlike Aroldis Chapman who were abusive to their wives....but now we're outraged when the Cubs do the same thing?

Brett Myers, Wil Cordero and Ryan Lochte Field. No publicity is bad, right? Might as well name it Trump Field...then he could sue and they would be in the news for months and months. Pure brilliance.