caulfield12

QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 09:57 AM) I wouldn't put a win total on it, or all on the Shields deal. Short of making the playoffs, changes must be made. It's a terrible organization on every level. The ONLY reasons to care right now are Tim Anderson and seeing how those first three draft picks do....

This team is a lot closer to Minnesota and another Top 10 draft pick than it is a playoff appearance. Let's just wait and see what the next week of massacres brings. It would be shocking if they managed to win more than 1 or 2 games this week.

Jordan wins GOAT 1) Much better history of clutch shots, starting with 1982 at UNC...for every memorable game-winning LeBron shot, there are 3-4 iconic ones for Jordan 2) You can't add 2 more years to LeBron's career that MJ didn't have (actually three, because of the baseball detour) without looking at what MJ accomplished at UNC and especially the 1984 Olympic Team coached by Bobby Knight/The Dream Team, etc. 3) MJ's history of voting totals for Defensive Player of the Year 4) Jordan's accomplishments were limited to pretty much the Bulls...he also didn't bolt in order to get a couple of gift titles playing with a hand-picked roster of All-Stars in Miami 5) Jordan almost single-handedly destroyed the Cavaliers, Celtics and Pistons...for decades Time will judge the level of competition....many will argue the 1980's and 1990's as the NBA's peak, others will say it has never been better or more athletic. You had players like Malone/Stockton and Barkley struggling their entire careers to win just one championship.

Well, the one thing we can say about Latos is that he'd muddle through 4-6 innings every time out with a ton of pitches. He'd usually keep the team in the ballgame, as rough as all those starts were after the first 4 were so good. And the team/offense seemed to play well behind him, for whatever reason (see the opposite with Gonzalez/Q). Even when he was starting to struggle, we were usually in those games and winning our fair share.

What players in the minor league system are deserving of places in the big leagues? Kahnle? Ynoa? Purke? Kevan Smith? Coats? Webb and Petricka got hurt, so that opened up a spot, but it essentially went to Albers because they didn't trust anyone, and Nate Jones returned from his rehab as well. This whole scenario of all these guys like Erik Johnson, Saladino, Coats and Carlos Sanchez succeeding if they were only given an opportunity is an example of the whole problem. Our system is so bad, guys like Keenyn Walker and Jared Mitchell are treated like prospects and even rated in the Top 10 for a year or two longer than they should be because our system is/was so terrible. More recently, maybe guys like May, Trey M. or Engel who wouldn't make the Top 15 in the best systems in the game. Look at the Red Sox, for example, they traded Jose Iglesias to the Tigers and he turned out far better than either Davidson or Avi Garcia. And he was their #9 prospect, not even a Top 100 MILB guy. I'm looking forward to the next post about how Hayes and Delmonico will save the world from dragons. In reality, we've traded away Thompson, Montas, Semien...and Phegley would be our #2 catcher and pushing for more playing time but probably exposed if given a full-time opportunity. 2B Tim Anderson RF Eaton 1B Abreu DH Cabrera LF Desmond CF Thompson 3B Semien C ??? (Phegley back-up) SS Iglesias That just goes to show you how narrow the margin is between also-ran and competing with a young core for an extended time period. The roster I compiled would be fun and exciting and dynamic. Just one mistake, Avi instead of Iglesias and then not signing Desmond....well, two mistakes. AND POOF!!! Signing Desmond pushes Cabrera to DH and you have a really good team with Saladino and Austin Jackson coming off the bench (where he belongs)...and add one bench bat, let's say, Pedro Alvarez/Raburn/Pearce. That's a team that could win the division...and wouldn't have needed to trade for Shields because we already had Montas as a 5th, and that can't be worse investing time in him compared to what we're going to see for the next two years with Gonzalez/Shields/Turner/Ranaudo, etc.

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 08:06 AM) Only thing I really like about this is the 6pm start. It is the perfect game time start IMO. I get home, walk the dog, and then the game is on while I make dinner, eat dinner, and veg on the couch. Next thing you know its only like 8:30 and the game is close to over. Perfect time to allow me to do other things. One problem. The average Fenway game time is about 3 hours, 40 minutes. Forget 8:30. Try 915-930, although, with the way the White Sox have been playing, 830's way too conservative in terms of the game being close to over.

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 08:23 AM) Ah, so I've bought partial season tickets for a few years now. Usually 7 game package which equates to 1 game per month - which is what I do anyways. One year I went all out - 2010 - and bought 5th row behind the dugout with stadium club - $75/ ticket for about a dozen games. After that I realized it's stupid to get season tickets.... However after a sweep of the Twins to bring us to 23-10 I started running the math -- I go, okay, well if we play .500 ball we'll have 90 wins or whatever. this division isn't going to be a runaway as nobody is that great. I thought at the very least they'd be in the thick of it for the remainder of the year - so I did it, I bought 20 game package -- all the wknd games left for the year.. since then they are what? 10-26? Moral of the story -- NEVER EVER BUY SEASON TICKETS. I've always done what you've done - buy a seat anywhere for $8 and just sit somewhere new each inning and then about the 6th or 7th just move down to 3rd or 4th row behind the plate or dugout. That is the way to do it. That being said if anybody wants a Saturday or Sunday ticket, Section 102, Row 8 for below face value for the rest of the year just let me know. I would be really impressed with JR if he sent out a letter expressing his own personal disappointment and 1) offering the equivalent amount purchased since the end of April/early may towards an equal amount of complimentary 2017 tickets OR 2) offering a full refund for the remaining 2016 tickets purchased as a show of good faith that eventually the front office will get something right. Of course, now that the fans have been "suckered" into buying those additional 100-150,000 tickets, no such tender/offer will be forthcoming. Which means that it will be suicide selling season tickets for 2017 if this trend continues. All the fans will be waiting until at least June/July of 2017 since not even the 2nd best start in baseball guarantees much of anything for this franchise.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 08:14 AM) [/b] Says the guy who wanted the Sox to pay Latos and Parra a total of $18 million in 2016. I'll take Desmond, Latos and Parra. Your GM wanted to pay James Shields $27 million. Btw, all three of those guys combined are still costing less than James Shields. You can keep your Gordon Beckham and Ubaldo Jimenez, though. I've also noticed you haven't said a single thing recently about Jeff Banister being a good manager these days, have you? Do you want me to bring back all those threads from the dead? How did that team go from terrible two years ago to the best team in baseball today, after the Cubs? Obviously, it had nothing to do with replacing Ron Washington and bringing in someone more capable. Of course, I never had any hope in the first place that the White Sox might actually look outside their organization for a coach/manager.

The other problem is you have to be able to provide at least replacement level or "somewhat" capable minor leaguers in case of injuries or non-performance. Let's forget the Andersons, Rodons and Fulmers for a moment. One of the single biggest issues with this franchise is just having someone who can step in and not put up a 500ish OPS and a negative WAR. The Jason Coatses/Carlos Sanchezes/Saladinos/Shucks/Sands of the world. Due to our lack of these guys developing in the minors....we end up with Albers/Navarro/Avila/Latos/Rollins/Gonzalez instead. It's no wonder that teams like the Indians with smaller budgets are kicking our butts. They're just more efficient in their spending/scouting/talent evaluation. Same with KC.

Well, they already tried Michael Jordan and Bo Jackson, so why not?

Except Davidson and Garcia were not "can't miss" guys. They were in the 70-100 range (I just looked up Davidson, he was #88 and peaked at #72)...but not Top 50 talents like Rodon/Anderson/Fulmer (borderline). Avi Garcia was #74. Jose Iglesias was the #9 prospect JUST for the Red Sox in 2013. Now who would you take out of all three of those players, AS OF TODAY? The White Sox occasionally have been right about prospects or guys with less than one year, like Quentin and Eaton. More often than not, they've missed by a country mile, whether it's Tyler Flowers, Nestor Molina, Zach Stewart, Avi or Matt Davidson. The Swisher trades, for example. Trading Gio Gonzalez twice. Mark Teahen. Jeff Keppinger. The list is too long to go through over and over again. A good GM, they say, is right about 60% of the time. Hahn has been right about 30-35% of the time. He's had some notable successes, but not nearly enough to counterbalance his biggest failures.

In fairness, we probably win the division going away if it weren't for Quentin's anger. In the end, yeah, we were super fortunate with the coin flip (Hahn's son), winning those three games and having the game at USCF. That was the ONLY time in recent White Sox history we actually beat the Twins. Since that season, we haven't had much of a home field advantage or the ability to beat the Royals, Indians or Tigers with any degree of consistency at all. That said, we still see the same lack of maturity hurting the Sox to this day, with Sale/Rodon hitting themselves on the head with the ball or wondering why a 91-93 MPH grooved fastball is deposited in the seats when both have the ability to consistently throw fastballs in the mid to upper 90's. Then, after giving up a homer, they'll start throwing a series of "angry" pitches.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 07:14 AM) Not sure why this post took the tangents that it did. My point was that we have a lot of key players on this team not playing up to the levels they should. Until they do, the team is going to continue to lose. Is that the players fault? Yes. Is the manager also a problem? Yes, but that is a different post. Is the front office also responsible? Yes, but that's a different post too. Therein lies the problem...how much is it the players? Well, what did we realistically expect? 83-85 wins, right? We're on a pace for 77.5-84.5 right now. Had they gone out 10-26 and then followed it up with 23-10, everyone would be a lot more upbeat, and they'd be roughly where we expected (3rd or 4th in the division). Talk about adding would make sense. We'd be 3 games ahead of last year's pace, and 5.5 GB instead of 11. But all that false hope and then the exciting sense of immediacy with Danks/Rollins/Latos (look, the White Sox actually feel some pressure this season to compete!)...trading for Shields, bringing up Anderson perhaps prematurely, that's what caused this whole mess. Who's to blame? Manager? Pitching coach? Steverson? Buddy Bell? Scouting? Coaching? Dave Wilder/struggles in Latin America? Boyer/marketing? Hahn? KW? JR's budget? The fans? The problem is that there is no way to isolate every variable as a unique percentage out of 100 and address each one by its weighting. All these issues collectively seem so endemic or big picture at this point that changing a manager or hitting coach is really beside the point. Hence we have the "problem is talent" post. Because for every potential upside we see in Frazier/Abreu/Rodon, etc., there's always another player cancelling it out.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2...h-padres-trade/ The irony here is that Shields had two choices at the time of the Padres' deal. Guess who was #2? Of course, the Cubs and Maddon. Except for the Schwarber injury, they've been leading a charmed life. Btw, this idea of him opting out seems more laughable than it was when this article was written just two weeks ago. Third, the Padres hold onto Shields through this trade deadline, bank on him opting out of this mess (Fowler’s comments might’ve actually helped those hopes) and receive both a compensation pick for a qualifying offer and a $42 million savings over the next two years. Sigh. The Padres can certainly save some face if Shields still opts out after this season, but the White Sox will have all sorts of incentive to convince him to stick around the next three years at a fraction of his cost as the innings-eater he is. Especially if Shields helps get the White Sox back in the postseason. Predictions, anyone? http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2...en-padres-cubs/

The offense has been so bad, you wonder if a knuckleballer can make things any worse? Back when we actually had good offense a decade or so ago, the concern was always a 3-5 game mini-slump after facing Wakefield.

The problem with this theory is that those other pitchers on the market like Sonny Gray/Rich Hill, Odorizzi, Teheran...the Red Sox can find organizations that are willing to take a package of minor leaguers instead of meeting the requirement of including ONE of Betts/Bradley/Bogaerts.

St. Louis and the Cubs definitely have the blueprint for success...although the Cubs are MUCH MUCH more difficult to copy/emulate. Have you ever been to Busch Stadium and seen all the pennants/flags/retired or HOF numbers? They're not the Yankees, but that organization has been the most successful (taking into consideration payroll/ROI) in the majors since maybe the early 1980's. You could make an argument for the Red Sox, too, and the Braves, but the Cardinals don't have all those revenue drivers the East and West Coast teams enjoy...especially broadcast rights. It's always going to be harder for the Midwest/Rust Belt teams, but the Twins (2002-2010) and now the Royals have had their runs too, the Indians in the mid 90's through 2001. Tigers from 2006-2014. Pirates again in the last decade. Not impossible, just difficult. The Reds and the Brewers are probably the ones with the most in common with the White Sox right now. Some successful seasons, generally profitable, but never a really prolonged run of winning. The Mariners would be another good comp, although they're able to spend a lot more money because of their new deal with ROOT Sports.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/mission-accom...-045730341.html Very good article by Wetzel. Surely all the writers loved the storybook ending...good for the NBA/marketing, perfect fairy tale for the city after what it has gone through since 2008 and of course, Earnest Byner/Elway/Jose Mesa/Colavito, 1954 World Series, etc.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 05:44 AM) I don't understand the motivated part of the post above. I mean, he rises to the moment and gets those blocked shots and steals...but he doesn't put 100% consistent effort out there in every game on the defensive side, not even the playoffs. Jordan would step on your neck and wouldn't take a possession off defensively until the other team's will to compete had utterly been crushed. Now you can argue that he needs to reserve his energy for the offensive side, where he's more of a playmaker/distributor and responsible for running the offense in a way that Jordan never was, at least until the last 3-4 minutes of a close game.

I should have written what they SHOULD do. I'm sure there will be 2-3 posters vehemently arguing that they're only 5 1/2 games back in the division, the Wild Card race is tightly bunched, but we heard the same arguments in 2015 and the momentum last year in July was actually more positive than it's likely to be this year...and Hahn just stood pat and refused to make any decisions. They can't be back in that same exact place this July. It would be ridiculous just to keep treading water in purgatory. This time last year, we were 30-39 and 11 games back. 2016, 33-36 and 5 1/2 GB, although there are more teams now bunched in front of us in the division. KC is not as good as last year, the Indians are probably the best team and the Tigers are about the equivalent of the Twins (lots of exciting offense but lacking in spots 4-5 in the rotation and a weak bullpen.)

QUOTE (dmbjeff @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 02:22 AM) Last year's team was awful, outside of Eaton, Abreu and Melky. They had 6 spots they had to improve in. They went and got Frazier and he has been an improvement over last year by a huge amount despite his recent struggles. Lawrie has also been an upgrade although he too has struggled lately. Every other position, SS, DH, RF, C...that's 4 spots of no upgrade. DH is your biggest glaring issue. That needs to be a 30 HR, 90 RBI guy in that spot. Instead we get Avi. He is just brutal. Everyone on this board wanted him gone but, nope, he is still here. I know the LaRoche thing screwed things up a bit but he was awful in his own right. SS, we went from bad Alexei to even worse Rollins. Just an awful, short sighted move. Saladino should have been given the job. Despite Saladino not being a great hitter, he was far better defensively and a rare bright spot last season after his call up because of his glove. At worse, let Saladino play until Anderson was ready. Instead, $2 million wasted on Rollins. C, we go from Flowers to Avila/Navarro. Mediocrity to more mediocrity. At least Flowers was good defensively. RF, we get rid of Avi's awful glove but then get Austin Jackson who good defensively has been pretty bad at the plate. Yeah I know Jackson is in CF and Eaton in RF, but Jackson was Avi's replacement. Jackson is a slight upgrade over Avi due to D, but really he should be a 4th OF on a good team like he was last year for the Cubs. SO in summary, needing upgrade at 6 spots and we only upgrade at 2. That still means almost half of your lineup is still garbage. There is just very little player development with positional players. I am really hoping Anderson develops and turns into something special. Until they start to develop their own talent, this will just continue on and on. You can rarely fill from dumpster diving and hope it works out. In 2005 they sort of did that letting Maggs and Lee go but they at least got competent talent back in return with Pods, AJ, Dye, Iguchi, Everett. It's like just because it worked once, it will work again. That team still developed their own guys(Crede, Rowand) or got guys super young from other teams and developed them(Uribe, Konerko) Unfortunately, they still need to develop and that's something they are awful at positionally. Melky and Eaton being terrible last year during the first two months were key factors in the Sox getting buried early. While Melky was pretty good for the remainder of the year, it didn't really matter as there were too many teams fighting in the WC space and then Shark just decided to go south after the trade deadline...and that was all she wrote. Of course, when we FINALLY get off to a good start, the first decent one since 2006/2008, we get completely buried in May/June.

In the end, LeBron is a great defensive player, when he is motivated to be...but Jordan did it consistently, on both sides of the ball. And he would never be the one I would want taking a last second shot outside of 18 feet to win the game. Of course, MJ wasn't a great outside shooter at any point in his career, either, but he worked on that aspect of his game from the time he hit the UNC campus and almost always found a way to get the important shots to go down when they were most needed. It's impossible for me to believe the Bulls at their early to mid 90's peak would have much trouble with these Warriors...

Nailed it. Been waiting a long time for some of these chess pieces to finally come together on the same board.

Except Zito was signed to one of the largest free agent contracts of that time period....and he ended up staying with the Giants for the duration of it (as far as I recall), despite bouncing back and forth between relieving and starting and largely being ineffective for most of it.

Curry wasn't 100% in terms of lateral quickness, Iguodala wasn't quite himself, they were without Bogut, and the NBA handed them a lifeline when they suspended Draymond Green for Game 5. That said, even though he didn't have the defining game-winning shot, the series was all about LeBron's overall dominance, with Kyrie Irving playing the Pippen to his Jordan.