caulfield12

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 02:56 PM) It seems fairly clear that the new arrivals in the locker room felt the need to go to the highest authority other than the owner. Either they thought manager was either ok with this and their opinions would not be listened to or that the manager would not have the authority to say something about it. Perhaps they even did go to the manager first with no reaction. One would think Hahn would have been the next step...since those players like Rollins all should have had a relationship developed with him to an extent in the month prior, while they were negotiating their contracts. Either Hahn acted in concert with Ventura (unlikely), the players assumed that talking to Hahn after Ventura wasn't going to get them anywhere since those two were of like minds (possible, but unlikely), or they simply felt they had to speak with someone who wasn't directly involved in the running of the clubhouse on a day-to-day basis and express their legitimate concerns about LaRoche and his son to someone in a position of authority to either do something about it directly or run it up the pole to Reinsdorf.

QUOTE (LDF @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 02:31 PM) waited for practice to be over, appch AL or have AL come to the office and be calm and explain your self, maybe have a legal rep from the sox org in there with kw to present the sox org side of the problem then do not else. As soon as you do that, in LaRoche's mind, you're creating a "hostile working environment" or breaking the verbal contract...in the end, the way things played out, he probably would have refused to go to the meeting...or said the only meetings he's going to are those called by Ventura/Hahn, since those two supposedly had no problems with LaRoche and Drake. So then you're back to square 1 or the only resolution is coming from Reinsdorf and that's still going to lead to the same set of problems. We're expecting KW to change his spots here, and he's consistently been the same person ever since assuming the GM role roughly 15 years ago. LaRoche should have known that ignoring KW was going to lead to an even bigger confrontation eventually.

And if Ventura didn't have any success with LaRoche only for KW/Reinsdorf later to come in and lay down the law, then what would have happened to the clubhouse? Does anyone really believe (throwing out all of Sale's personal comments for a moment) that Adam LaRoche would have "dialed it back" 50% for Ventura? In reality, Reinsdorf and KW knew that it would have been a disaster for Ventura's authority/respect in the clubhouse...and clearly the new/er players didn't feel comfortable approaching LaRoche since they weren't part of the team last year.

Adam, you're an idiot. But thanks for retiring...it should be easier for us pitchers to get a win without your dumb a$$ striking out 3 times a game. Buy your kid a kite. $25 donation to LaRoche Family Recovery Fund https://twitter.com/search?f=images&ver...ks&src=typd Is that for real from Danks?

Still waiting for someone to explain exactly what KW should have done differently after being directly disobeyed by an employee on at least two occasions? Told the kid he needs to stay in Ventura or Hahn's offices? Asked to go to mediation or arbitration with LaRoche over the original scope of the verbal agreement made with Hahn/Ventura? In any real workplace in the world where employees aren't making millions of dollars, LaRoche would have been fired for insubordination...probably lawyered up and sued...but, the end result would have been the same.

Willie Robertson ‏@williebosshog Mar 17 Been bringing my kid to work since she was 14. Worked out well. #FamilyFirst @e3laroche

On what other team in the majors could two players like Eaton and Sale say whatever they wanted about management to the media and via Twitter and expect no repercussions? Is Eaton speaking "on behalf of the team" as the player rep or because there is soon to be a grievance filed...or he's only speaking for himself?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 08:14 AM) Link to one Beckhamn controversial comment about Obama please. His wife doesn't count as him. And his anti Gay thing to Getz was something 95% or more of Soxtalk members have done at some point in their lives. This last sentence (the "joking/wink-wink") is exactly why Ozzie was so shocked at all the backlash for his comments. Because every team makes those same "maricon" jokes and laughs about it. That term is thrown around as an insult at every ballpark, at least it used to be. We might have thought it was funny to joke about in high school, but that was in the 1980's and early 90's, when everyone was scared to death about HIV/AIDS and the Magic Johnson story was shocking news. The Beckham comments are about as easy to track as Adam Eaton's twitter comments that have conveniently disappeared.

QUOTE (LDF @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 08:10 AM) and i asked this.... r u sure it was me.... Nope, I'm the one who brought it up...because it's too obvious. (And I say this from two seasons of working around a minor league baseball team every single day for 140+ games...there's always that clubhouse split between white players, Hispanic players and a few African-American players, especially the Hispanic players staying to themselves, with rare exceptions guys like Juan Uribe or Sandy Alomar that were the bridges between the two groups). We have a profile, as someone said. White, Christian (born again, most often), anti-gay (for the most part), like to go hunting and fishing, listen to country music, heck, it's the profile of NASCAR too, haha. That's LaRoche, Eaton, Sale, Beckham, Shark, Lawrie, Duke, Blaine Boyer, Bryce Harper...etc. And they've aligned with Ventura and Hahn. Most, but not all of them, grew up with a certain amount of privilege or special treatment from their teenage years onward. Then you have basically everyone else who's not 100% comfortable in that group, especially the Hispanic players.

QUOTE (flavum @ Mar 19, 2016 -> 08:05 AM) I'd be lying if I said it hasn't crossed my mind that everyone loves LaRoche - especially if you're white, Christian, and like to kill stuff. You forgot country music (the LaRoches are friends with Jason Aldean, whoever that is) and trapping. Similar to the Peavy/Crede/Buehrle days. It really is striking. Beckham was the one involved with writing the "anti-gay" stuff joking around with Chris Getz...and yet he is the one often making controversial statements (along with his wife) about President Obama and then you mix in the Robertsons/Duck Dynasty.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0827-story.html Here's a story about "Faith Day" last year, and the Willie Robertson/Duck Dynasty connection (obviously, he has a very controversial, non-tolerant approach to homosexuality.) The three players to participate were LaRoche, Duke and Beckham. LaRoche’s teams never had a problem with him bringing Drake to the park, so long as he stayed out of the way. LaRoche’s teammates adore him. Last week, pinch hitter Chad Tracy walked by Drake. “You get any push-ups in today?” he asked. “Every day, you got to do 50.” Drake dropped to the floor and started doing push-ups. On the day last year that the Nationals clinched the National League East title, most of the Nationals guzzled Korbel and Miller Lite. Drake hung with the other underage kid in the clubhouse: In the corner, he and Bryce Harper sipped sparkling apple cider. One day this spring, as the Nationals stretched before a practice, hitting coach Rick Eckstein fed balls into a pitching machine that spit high in the air so Drake could practice catching pop flies. At the end of the workout, the Nationals lined up to run sprints around the bases. The first three players sprinted to first . . . and then came Drake, chugging along in front of LaRoche. “It makes all of us who don’t have kids that age yet kind of jealous,” Zimmerman said. “That’s kind of the ultimate dream: to have your son in the clubhouse with you, let him interact.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/natio...b584_story.html

When we keep bringing up this whole "zero access" thing... How many times would we expect to get warnings or "friendly advice" from our boss about something he felt would have a positive effect or possibly improve work performance....only for us to completely disregard it, pretty much do the exact opposite and then shove it in his face by having his son come with him every single day to the the camp and also having him out on the mound? HINT: the answer is that very few non-millionaires could afford to take this position with management. In real life, people make deals all the time that eventually come up for renegotiation or "reconsidering" based on changing circumstances (or economic conditions, in the typical workplace situation). What should KW have done when he had already been directly disobeyed at least twice? Now if KW said in the very beginning after last season that he was cutting off all access to kids, zero tolerance, then clearly LaRoche would have had a MUCH stronger point. But that's not what Williams did here.

I thought it was intimated or put out there that he had gone to KW, although I guess that has yet to be backed up by any real evidence...and obviously won't be now. The closest we have is the naming of Rollins at some point in this process. What was it that Todd Frazier said again?

Why isn't there a single non-white player or coach on the side of LaRoche, inside or outside the White Sox organization? That's very telling. Hahn/Ventura/Sale/Eaton/Shark/Duke/Lawrie/Harper/Boyer=good KW/Rollins/Avila=evil Obviously it's not that simple, but imagine KW was to be fired. What free agent would want to sign with the White Sox, knowing that Sale and Eaton were basically running the club and dictating policy? If someone like Rodon, Abreu, Jackson or Navarro said that KW was completely wrong...then I might start to think pitchforks are in order, but everything must be much more complicated than it appears in terms of the real/true opinions of the majority of the rest of the team, especially players added this past offseason.

QUOTE (Condor13 @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 08:29 PM) I hope you don't mean you would hire someone with an agreement to allow their kid to be around ALL THE TIME and then say screw you in year 2 and change it. That is some real shady s*** that KW is doing. Oh wait and then LIE/tell your management team that the problem was the employees and then tell the employees it was management and then tell everyone it was the owner. KW has lied and broken contractual agreements all this week, I can't wait to see what he does next (probably trade Sale for a bag of peanuts LITERALLY!!!!) Wasn't it Hahn that negotiated the contract? Why did Hahn, the master negotiator, include such a vague and ambiguous clause that any labor relations expert could easily predict problems eventually resulting from...? He's the one with the MBA and Harvard Law degree, shouldn't he have known better than to set that kind of precedent for one player's son?

If Drake had been clocked in the head by a throw across the infield or hit in the head and knocked out by a line drive, would Adam LaRoche blame himself? How often can you directly disrespect a front office exec and not expect to have it blow up on you? How would or should any team president in a similar situation (who had expressed concerned about dialing it back at least once if not twice to LaRoche) react to seeing the kid in the middle of the field the next day? Would they write a reprimand? Fine LaRoche? What were KW's options? Back off? Have a "secret ballot" team vote on Drake, whether he should go or stay? Every player and ex-player has respect for that playing field...it's their office where they do their work. They earned the right to be there.

Or LaRoche's interpretation of KW's meeting with him is that he felt like Drake wasn't welcome (any longer) or that there had been complaints...which isn't quite the same as directly telling someone you can't bring your kid into the clubhouse at all, ever, again. Maybe it felt that way, after the unfettered access and "non issue" of last season in Adam's mind. There's got to be some middle ground. It's easy for LaRoche to typify KW's comments like that afterwards, to cast them in the most negative light...but probably the only mistake KW made was not having a 3rd party in that room, bringing a he said/she said element into it. LaRoche isn't going to admit fault or assume responsibility. So now he can't spend any time in the clubhouse, KW lied directly to him and the team...the clause about Drake was explicitly in his contract, etc.

Good vs. Evil. The Power of Myth.

Jesus. Stupid National Party Congress in Beijing. First they blocked all the proxy/vpn programs for two weeks so SoxTalk slowed down to a crawl. Now that it's sort of working (just in time for March Madness) with the VPN again, it keeps freezing and double/triple/quadruple posting. Sigh.

You know about the only thing that would fix this is LaRoche/Drake/Sale/KW doing a joint conference and admitting it was all a pre-April Fool's Day joke to get the Sox in the national news conversation and steal some thunder from the Cubs...we've all been punk'd. LaRoche in deadpan monotone, "KW really loves THE DRAKE. Do you actually think I'm crazy enough to walk away from $13 freakin' million dollars and the 2nd Annual FamilyFirst/White Sox Faith Day festivities? Only Gil Meche would do something that stupid." Or part of a seminar/simulated case study on workplace relations by the MLBPA.

You know about the only thing that would fix this is LaRoche/Drake/Sale/KW doing a joint conference and admitting it was all a pre-April Fool's Day joke to get the Sox in the national news conversation and steal some thunder from the Cubs...we've all been punk'd. LaRoche in deadpan monotone, "KW really loves THE DRAKE. Do you actually think I'm crazy enough to walk away from $13 freakin' million dollars and the 2nd Annual FamilyFirst/White Sox Faith Day festivities? Only Gil Meche would do something that stupid." Or part of a seminar/simulated case study on workplace relations by the MLBPA.

You know about the only thing that would fix this is LaRoche/Drake/Sale/KW doing a joint conference and admitting it was all a pre-April Fool's Day joke to get the Sox in the national news conversation and steal some thunder from the Cubs...we've all been punk'd. LaRoche in deadpan monotone, "KW really loves THE DRAKE. Do you actually think I'm crazy enough to walk away from $13 freakin' million dollars and the 2nd Annual FamilyFirst/White Sox Faith Day festivities? Only Gil Meche would do something that stupid." Or part of a seminar/simulated case study on workplace relations by the MLBPA.

You know about the only thing that would fix this is LaRoche/Drake/Sale/KW doing a joint conference and admitting it was all a pre-April Fool's Day joke to get the Sox in the national news conversation and steal some thunder from the Cubs...we've all been punk'd. LaRoche in deadpan monotone, "KW actually loves THE DRAKE. Do you actually think I'm crazy enough to walk away from $13 freakin' million dollars and the 2nd Annual FamilyFirst/White Sox Faith Day festivities? Only Gil Meche would do something that stupid." Or part of a seminar/simulated case study on workplace relations by the MLBPA.

Nobody actually WANTS to trade Sale because the odds of coming out ahead are about 1 in 5. We just want him and Eaton to concentrate on baseball and stop acting like jackasses/spoiled brats. For all we know, Sale was just waiting for the perfect opportunity to launch a coup in KW's direction, and this situation provided him cover.

This just in. Yoenis Cespedes now wants to sign with the White Sox and join the circus-like atmosphere, feels it's the closest thing to the sheer craziness of NYC and White Sox apparently willing to pay him $30 million and also allow him to wear his cap backwards. Cites the DeAndre Jordan precedent. Also, better parking accommodations for all his various luxury vehicles at USCF. Threads merged for the biggest in SoxTalk history.