caulfield12

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 09:13 PM) He seems like just a horrible teammate. Also think his skills have already diminished. The prevailing theory is that he's bulked up way too much and also lost X percentage of his fast-twitch muscle memory...and his bat speed has also slowed significantly from 2013-14. It's more of a conditioning/work ethic issue than anything. Sosa went through the same transition, albeit a chemically-enhanced one.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 09:12 PM) I really liked the Puig idea for a while, and it still intrigues me, but I think he has one too many red flags attached at this point, plus his injury history. But can you imagine Eaton, Lawrie, Abreu, Cespedes, Puig and Sale in one clubhouse together? At least Ventura would be earning his money like Mattingly did in LA with guys like Kemp, Greinke, Hanley Ramirez and Puig on the same roster. If they didn't end up stuck with LaRoche and could get a similar subsidy to the Thome deal...Hanley Ramirez would even start to make sense. And that's getting scary. And just hitting everyday compared to 3B or LF should prevent some of the injury problems.

Haha...well, only Jerry Jones would be making that move anyway. We did have Wil Cordero, Albert Belle, Manny Ramirez, Jaime Navarro, D'Angelo Jimenez, etc.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 09:03 PM) Sign Upton. Sign Cespedes Trade Anderson for Frazier. Legit contender. Who is the owner of that team? Trump? Jerry Jones or Daniel Snyder? I don't even think Anderson alone would be enough for Frazier...for CarGo, yes. Trading for declining iconic/franchise players who are overvalued because of their marketing value in those cities just doesn't seem like the best idea in the world. If they're going to do that, I'd almost rather they took a huge risk and brought in Aroldis Chapman, Puig and Cespedes and created one of the most interesting teams in the history of the game...as opposed to our current status of being one of the most boring/irrelevant teams in the league.

The Giants and Cardinals are looming out there as well...and the Royals have two OF openings, unless they're totally convinced Dyson and Orlando can handle RF. Since they've only spent about $40 million total (J.Soria and re-signing Young) so far, they have to be considered huge players for Cespedes and obviously Gordon. When the musical chairs have stopped, there will just be way too many teams out there with significant resources who will be able to outbid the White Sox. The Tigers would be yet another, and they're already quite familiar with Cespedes and vice-versa. Seems he was very comfortable in that market, although obviously he was dynamite for NY until the post-season.

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 08:40 PM) I doubt that's true. But if it indeed happened...the amount of backlash from not only the fans but probably from the other executives will be huge. KW hopefully has learned to keep his mouth shut about not spending $1 for Upton/Cespedes/Gordon/Davis/Desmond when you only have 50 cents. Well, the reason you only have 50 cents is because of a series of bad moves and mismanagement that has accrued over time to the point where you're stuck in neutral with no clear direction in sight. Even if you somehow managed to win the bidding for one of those names, the odds of bringing in two impact players without damaging the farm system significantly are about zero unless you're willing to roll the dice and trade Sale or Q.

The problem is what "non-rental or two years before FA" player is out there that Hahn could justify trading Fulmer and/or Anderson for and not completely short circuit the rebuilding process like the Samardzija move/non-move in July partially did? If they weren't trying to compete 100% in 2016, it's even more inexcusable to have kept Robertson's salary on the payroll when the Sox actually could have gotten something back for him last year from the Yankees. Puig would have made sense before the off-season hit, but now the Dodgers pretty much have to keep him because the possible net return has been pushed so low...Jose Fernandez? Matt Harvey? Well, that doesn't address the offense. And it's just as inconceivable to imagine trading for Giancarlo Stanton and JR taking on that amount of salary. There's just too much risk involved trading Anderson OR Fulmer for someone like CarGo and then turning around and seeing the payroll bloated even further. We've already added Lawrie and Avila's injury risk/s, and Eaton is always in danger of going down the way he plays the game. What seems most likely is the addition of a Parra, Travis Snider or Austin Jackson "placeholder" move in the OF...even then, many aren't convinced Hahn's 100% ready to throw in the towel on Avi Garcia, unfortunately.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 12:06 PM) How much work is left to do? Depends on your perspective. If you think the Sox can "contend" in 2016 then they still have a boatload of holes and needs that have to be upgraded on probably a limited budget because of an expected drop in season ticket sales. If you think they are still biding their time perhaps for 2017 or 2018 when some of their highly regarded prospects may be ready, than they are probably close to being done. Mark It would be pretty much unprecedented in recent Sox history. We followed up competing in 2010 with Adam Dunn. I'd even say last offseason was a bit of an aberration, in the sense that they were trying to "fast forward" or jump start the competitive cycle without having the revenue bump from 2013 to justify the new spending (other than the idea that season tickets were going to be up around 1,500 a game in 2015, the rationale for adding Cabrera at the time). Assuming we're going to see a net loss of 3,000-4,000 tickets (1500-2500 per game overall down) heading into the season without adding something significant (Frazier OR Desmond and Chris Davis/Upton/Cespedes/Gordon), it's just nearly impossible to imagine committing to two more long-term salaries that would end up being higher than the average for the Abreu deal if you added them together in aggregate. It's also just as difficult to see Hahn giving up on Anderson or Fulmer for a two-year rental already in his 30's in Frazier (who would be adjusting to a new league to boot).

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 07:40 PM) Just give me one of the OFers at this point and then add Frazier if possible That can only happen if they're willing to accept someone not named Anderson or Fulmer. Just don't see any type of package (Montas or Adams, Micah, Thompson, Avi, etc.) that will get it done. It also seems they would prefer Lawrie at 3B rather than 2B, as they're probably more content with Sanchez at 2B than Saladino at SS. They pretty much need to go ahead and add Desmond to go with Upton/Cespedes/Gordon or they're just going to be too far away...one player alone isn't enough to make our offense as competitive as it needs to be, especially when it's a low contact/average defense type who goes through extreme hot and cold streaks during a season like Upton and Cespedes are prone to. In terms of price/value, they're MUCH better off with Gordon/Desmond than Upton or Cespedes alone. The problem is that there are another 5-10 teams like the Cardinals and Giants who have the same idea about Gordon, who looks like he will end up signing for $90-110 million over four years. Without the draft pick attached, Cespedes could end up in the mid 100's, and that's way too steep for the Sox historically. Heck, $100 million for two "very good" years of Gordon and two likely declining ones when they most need his production (2018-2019) is a huge risk as well.

It's a classic Catch-22. If they go after someone like Cespedes and Gordon, it's back to 100% win now mode...and they won't get the number of years of a Heyward or Upton (5-7?), so that's preferable from a financial standpoint. The other problem is that both those guys might take 3 year deals but only if they get huge yearly salaries for giving up one or two years in contract length. That said, if they were to sign Cespedes or Gordon, it virtually forces them to go after someone like Desmond (at the very least, bring Ramirez back) and probably another veteran starting pitcher as insurance for Johnson and the rest of the rotation (unless they want to send Montas/Beck/Turner out there to take their lumps). Buying Desmond "lower" but certainly not cheaply some amount of sense...but then again you're not really improving the defense with that move. There's been a lot of speculation Desmond could be moved to the outfield due to his athleticism (see Zobrist/Figgins/Tony Phillips, etc.) but then one of the biggest and most obvious weaknesses in the current starting line-up would have to be Saladino at SS (along with Garcia in RF and LaRoche), leading to the conclusion the White Sox would stick him at their weakest or second weakest current position overall. Desmond does bring some speed on the basepaths and good XB pop to the dish, and there's no overstating how much we need to improve our offense at every position outside of Abreu/Eaton right now.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 05:04 PM) I have a time machine and I went and checked and Upton and Cespedes are both way better than anyone picked 25 or later. Mike Trout says hello.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 09:50 AM) Plus signing cheap short term stop gaps is a way to help build for the future. Just like other rebuilding teams in the past, we may have someone producing early on and then trading in June/July. That hasn't worked well at all the last two seasons.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 09:14 AM) I forgot which analyst was talking about it, but whoever it was mentioned that Matsuda may be open to signing a one year deal to come play over here just to get the experience of living in the US and playing MLB and then figuring out if he wants to stay over here or go back to Japan next offseason. Could be an interesting 1 year option. Then you have to move Lawrie to 2b where we actually have some depth and turn around and find another 3b or move Lawrie back again in 2017... Not helping much in terms of building towards 2018.

The next wave consists of Dexter Fowler, Gerardo Parra, Denard Span and Austin Jackson, although Jackson has been trending in the wrong direction of late. Fowler is the only one of the four who received a qualifying offer and will require the team that signs him to surrender a draft pick. He is also likely to be the most expensive; one baseball insider estimated that he's looking at a deal in the three-year, $42 million range. The third wave (or two) includes Will Venable, Rajai Davis, Alex Rios, David Murphy, Steve Pearce, Shane Victorino, Ryan Raburn and Jeff Francoeur, all of whom have something to offer without necessarily being 500-at-bat-a-year guys. The Chicago White Sox appear set in the outfield with Melky Cabrera in left field, Adam Eaton in center and Avisail Garcia in right. That said, the Sox ranked last in the American League with 622 runs and a .686 team OPS in 2015. Can they stand idly by and let Upton or Cespedes sign elsewhere with an offense that sad? http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/14342400...outfield-market The most creative idea is turning Ian Desmond into Ben Zobrist or Chone Figgins, essentially...and playing him all over the field.

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 08:58 AM) be that as it may, if all things stays the same, going into the convention for the sox, i really wonder how the sox will spin this. on top of that, i wonder how they will deal with a worst turnover in purchasing season tickets or weekend pkg. are they going to say, this is a 3 yr plan and this is a minor set back or will they tell the truth, the sox have 2 contract of 28 mil and they want that off their books. That's not even counting Cabrera and Robertson...

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 08:49 AM) I don't really care where you pencil in Perez or Gordon to the White Sox line up since they won't be on the team, but Sal Perez wouldn't bat 3rd or 5th. He is about a .700 OPS guy.his offensive game has been in decline for a few years now and he is still young. Like Lawrie, except he's the most important player on his team in terms of leadership, not unlike Molina in St. Louis. Btw, an area the White Sox have been sorely lacking since the departures of Buehrle and Konerko, unless you're counting LaRoche's Christian outreach efforts...

Fine. You can hit Gordon third and Perez fifth. Although I'm sure you will argue the new and improved Lawrie or LaRoche should be there instead. Maybe Gordon's OBP numbers are still too low? Lawrie has similar OBP numbers and isn't as good an overall hitter, especially compared to others at his position.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 07:13 AM) Nelson Cruz was 5 years older than Davis will be, when he signed his contract with Seattle. Davis will be 30 in March. In today's market, he should be worth $25 Million per year, on a 7 year deal. The Orioles offered $150 Million, which Davis turned down and which Baltimore has since withdrawn. If the Sox could get him for $175 Million, for 7 years, which would represent his age 30, through 36 years, it seems "reasonable" in today's market. The organization has no prospect who could realistically be projected to fill the need for a big, left handed power bat. If the Sox want to compete with the Cubs, for fan support, that is the sort of move that JR will have to make. The final year of La Roche's deal, is relatively of little significance, when contemplating that kind of financial commitment. Who cares what they do with him. Release him, if they have to. That number of years and dollars for Davis after what they gave Abreu (roughly 40%) will just never happen with JR as owner...you pay that kind of money for a franchise catcher, SS, 3B or outfielder who can hit and defend. Davis is not close to the modern day equivalent of Albert Belle as a hitter.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 08:11 AM) Hopeless again. Until JR sees his GM needs a varsity letter in HS baseball, this team is screwed. Perez wouldn't bat 5th for the White Sox. You're right. He would hit third. Eaton, Cabrera, Perez, Abreu, Gordon, Lawrie, Thompson, Saladino, Sanchez. Based on 2011-2014, that would be the most logical line-up. It's exactly the kind of team we would need to win with defensively...and pitching-wise.

What reason do we really have to believe that Hahn is even an average judge or evaluator of baseball talent? He's missed badly on Avi, Duke, Davidson, LaRoche, Keppinger, Bonifacio, Beckham (second time), Paulino, Cabrera, Downs and Belisario. Soto, Montas (who many now want to trade), Eaton...those have worked out well, and then Abreu, who was pushed mostly by KW and Paddy. Robertson...jury is far from out on whether overpaying a veteran closer for three consecutive non-playoff appearances will be worth it when they could have punted him back to NY last year. Oh, and finally the Samardzija debacle...and completely misreading the team and trade market in June/July last year.

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 07:57 AM) If Johnson comes through for the team in 2016 the White Sox can have one of the best rotations in MLB. Sale, Quintana, Rodon and Johnson is a very good rotation to have. If Fulmer does well the first part of 2016 in the Minor Leagues he might become the 5th starter by the All Star break. Why waste this type of pitching? As Bill Veeck once said "The future is Now". Acquire at least one more big bat through free agency (Upton) and hopefully the team will score enough runs to get the team into the 2016 Playoffs. If Hahn is expecting La Roche to bat cleanup for the team and be productive it's going to be another long season the South Side of Chicago. Hahn has added 2 catchers and a third baseman. He has upgraded those 2 positions. The team should be better offensively with those 3 players. The team needs one more big bat. Lets do it this offseason. Lawrie and Avila haven't been able to stay healthy. Upton alone doesn't make us a playoff team without at least one more dangerous hitter in that lineup. KC had Perez and Gordon hitting 7th and 8th against lefties down the stretch. Those guys would be hitting 3/5 for the White Sox with Abreu in the cleanup spot. Just not enough balance or contact....no threats on the basepaths/terrible baserunning and an improved defensive team but still bottom third in the majors. Will believe in Erik Johnson when the team puts 100% faith in him as well.

With the team as currently constituted projected in the 75-80 win territory...is there anyone who disagrees? 1) AL Central a tad weaker with Gordon, Zobrist, Price and Cespedes gone and only Zimmermann added. 2) Cabrera, Eaton and LaRoche can't start that poorly again...theoretically. 3) Sale, Rodon and EJ have room to improve. Otoh, we had nearly 100% health last season. A major injury to Cabrera, Eaton, Lawrie, Abreu, Q, Sale, Rodon or Robertson would put the team behind the 8 ball. Other than DH and 2b, we're seriously lacking in depth. Going to Beck or Turner in April would probably end up with disastrous results. They have to add another OF bat like Upton, shake things up with a trade or gamble on Desmond. Sitting on all those picks isn't going to help until it's too late because we are probably stuck in that 12-18 range over the next two seasons in the first round and Hahn will be out of a job by the time they make any appreciable impact. With the lack of free agent hitters next offseason, can they really afford to punt two more seasons away and be in an even worse position financially to make the necessary changes before 2018?

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 13, 2015 -> 01:32 AM) White Sox were 14th in team ERA. http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching/league/al 7th out of 15th in the AL without adjusting for the league's worst defense and USCF. I'm pretty sure the WAR pitching stats are even better....top 3-5. #1 in quality starts in the AL as well.

We're going to more than double the biggest contract in Sox history for yet another attempt at fixing the LH power problem? Not seeing it. Davis is essentially three times more expensive than Nelson Cruz, and he's not the type of player who will increase attendance by name alone, either. Finally, there's the fact JR isn't willing to tack another $13 million on top of that to dump LaRoche. Buying players at that age coming off contract drive seasons for six to eight year deals just isn't the Sox way...not even for Sox heroes or homegrown players. They want to roll the dice, it's going to have to be Puig, Cespedes, Gordon or Upton.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/schmuck...1211-story.html Questions why Heyward is worth so much with such pedestrian offensive numbers...and the impact on a potential Chris Davis contract in Balt. Calls the deal mind boggling when many pundits think it's Epsteinian genius.