caulfield12

Well, at least you moderated your stance from them finishing behind the Twins. That would be a cataclysmic collapse from 23 7/9ths - 10 and the 2nd best team in MLB.

Maybe Shields coming back and beating the Royals will jump start this team...maybe! Of course, if they crush him, it could have the effect of further exacerbating the malaise and bad play.

QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 06:51 PM) Completely agree, on the fact that the farm system has to be the foundation. They have to pour more money into scouting and player development, instead of saving it for the splashy move at the deadline. Go into the season with a sound team, and add to it when a) it makes sense to, and b) with a player that it makes sense to add. I have argued with buddies of mine that they should be going more for guys like Pineda and Bauer, talented guys who are cost controlled, have ace quality stuff and need a change of scenery, rather than high priced aging talent. Also, when you're not trying to win, try to identify free agents who have had down years and flip them on a bounce back year for either a failed guy with lots of talent that needs a change of scenery or talented guys at the lower levels of the minors. See Contreras, Freddy Garcia (although the price at the time seemed extremely high), Danks, Floyd, Jenks, Santos, Thornton and Marte, etc. For hitters, the 2004-2005 offseason still reigns as the best example, as a lot of those guys like AJ and Dye were still relatively close to their primes. Then that 2007-2008 cycle adding Beckham, Viciedo, Alexei, Floyd, Danks and Carlos Quentin. Everything else has been hit and miss. Steps forward and backwards. Rios and Peavy are perfect examples. The majority of their free agent acquisitions have killed them, especially LaRoche, Swisher and Dunn (in 2011). Javy looked great on paper but just wasn't a winning pitcher...sometimes that talent just doesn't translate to wins or good chemistry. More than anything, when you're constantly blending in players from other organizations...you never have cohesiveness and continuity, always searching and experimenting to try to find that magical winning combination but never quite having the resources to get the job done effectively due to the lack of revenue generation caused by the fans' well-earned distrust for and with the organization.

The same reason the team goes from Spring Training ending to the regular season and they always have 2-3 days to get everything organized for their big move... Just common sense. Why would a starter who won't pitch until Tuesday and already knows the AL so well need to rush to get to DET to watch Quintana pitch against Verlander? To be the new head cheerleader and team motivator/performance psychologist? If anything, it would completely smack of desperation if they pushed him to come fast. Introduce him to the media in Chicago on the offday Monday or more likely Tuesday early afternoon. MLB rules and regulations say exactly how much time the players are entitled to before they have to report, anyway. Not a White Sox policy, it was a union-negotiated one.

Elgin, and this is where you're specifically right here. Hahn's not a talent evaluation and development guy. Not his forte. It's the only reason Preller has a job still in SD, that's his major strength, minor leagues....talent evaluation and development. That has to be the foundation of a team like the White Sox with a middle 40-60% payroll but definitely not one who will be able to spend more than "average" until a new broadcast rights deal in 2019. Look at what he did in Texas while there: Odor, Profar, Leonys Martin, Odubal Herrera (now with Philly), Mazara (ROY), Chi Chi Rodriguez and a slew of other minor leaguers that gave them the depth to trade for Hamels. http://padrespublic.com/sacrifice-bunt/aj-...tten-strengths/ AJ Preller's Forgotten Strengths

Indians=Lindor, Ramirez, Carrasco, Danny Salazar, Carlos Santana, Jonny Gomes (Brazil) Royals=Escobar, Perez, Ventura, Herrera, Orlando (originally with Sox), Carlos Cuthbert (Nicaragua), Mondesi, Jr. We just can't come close to competing when the Tigers can buy anyone they want and the two best teams in the division are killing us and continue to kill us developing Latin American players. It's that simple. We were fortunate with Alexei, Abreu and Q, but missed badly on Viciedo and Avi Garcia. But hey, we're good at producing utility infielders. Carlos Sanchez and Eduardo Escobar. So there's that.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 06:08 PM) E Johnson is major league pitcher, albeit one Cooper didn't like (and it's Cooper's world). Tatis is/was the best young international player org I see why the Sox aren't going all in on international players, unlike winning organizations...they don't value them. Meanwhile Williams and Hahn continue to employ Ventura and Cooper. Cooper also didn't like McCarthy and Hudson for mechanical reasons. That said, I'm still pissed he didn't have a clue how to help Liriano in 2012 after watching him so many freaking time since 2006 and the next year the Pirates' coaching staff came up with a very modern and effective strategy to get the most out of both him and Volquez. Then again, in the NL, Cueto and Shark look like Cy Young candidates when they were terrible in the Central.

Micker Adolfo is more likely to be a stud than Tatis, and the success rate from those signings is a LOT lower than the ROI in free agency, which is still pretty terrible. The last time we developed Latin American players (other than Carlos Sanchez), you have to go back nearly 20 years to Ordonez and Carlos Lee. All the Cubans came ready to play, Alexei, Abreu, Contreras and El Duque. We didn't "develop" Jose Quintana, but they do deserve credit for tracking him with the Mets and Yankees in their minor league systems.

And yeah, I'm usually doom and gloom too, but I have no problems with the trade...partially because I know what Shields has meant to the Rays and Royals from following those two teams closely. The ONLY problem I would have is if they don't address the OTHER obvious, elephant in the room hitting problems...and maybe find a replacement for Avila if he continues to have 0 homers and 2 RBI's into July. One more BIG bat (preferably with an 850+ OPS split against RHP) and a return to health from Jackson and Cabrera in the line-up changes things a lot. Obviously, no 2014-15 Abreu, they're still not going anywhere. Sale, Quintana and Rodon even feel like concerns right now, especially Chris and Carlos, and Jose in the sense that you don't want him to get down on himself again losing all these 1-2 run games with negligible run support. If Anderson and Fulmer are for real, then they just might be okay...not sure about 2016, but going into 2017, they have a shot. It just sucks we've given up so much ground winning the division feels like a pipe dream since we've shown no signs of being able to beat any of our divisional opponents other than the Twins.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 05:48 PM) Youre not alone in your stance. His Bs and obvious agenda has bugged me for years, even when I was just a daily lurker and didn't post. He's one of the best five posters on this board, and he knows his stuff about non-baseball related matters as much as anyone here. It doesn't matter what someone's opinions are, or it shouldn't, as long as they are well-informed. And his always have been. If you went back about 5 years, you'd see guys like Balta or Lip were pretty consistently optimistic and hopeful. These last 4-5 seasons have taken a lot out of MANY White Sox fans, which have been reflected in the tv and radio ratings.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 04:33 PM) And this is one of the two reasons I haven't been posting. Because if you're not a fan of this team, its now personal for too many people. Agreed, 100%. Being compelled to feel a certain way when when your heart and head tells you the opposite just doesn't sit well with me. It's like the more someone tries to convince you that your argument is wrong, the more hardened your position becomes. Having followed the White Sox for most of my 46 years on this planet, that Texas game and this past weekend against the Royals are hard to recover from...you need to have a really good manager, not just an "average/run of the mill" one. And it's not just one specific decision by Ventura, it's a serious of increasingly questionable decisions that have added up over 4+ years. There just haven't been many tangible signs of improvement in his managing, the first time you have hope that the worm has turned, then you have this complete collapse that just sucks the wind out of your sails and makes you want to give up on baseball for a while just for your sanity's sake. We keep hearing managers don't matter...especially the sabermetricians, but they hate discussing something that's not statistically quantifiable beyond something idiotic like pythagorean wins and losses.

Matt Kemp is available, KW, get it done!! Better yet, Kemp and Myers. Let's just start going crazy like Prince and AJ Preller in the 2014-15 off-season.

Trayce Thompson and Marcus Semien both make the All-Star team, and Frankie Montas becomes an ace set-up guy for Kenley Jansen. That's the direction this season is headed. Heck, for good measure, Trayce will probably be added to the Warriors' roster to play with his brother and rain down 2-3 treys in garbage time in a clinching Game 5 win at Oracle Arena.

I can just see adding Carlos Gonzalez or Bruce tomorrow. Margalus at SSS might need to rethink his position about the Padres being in even worse shape if Anderson and Fulmer both aren't impact players. Honestly, it really sucks being a Sox fan these days when you have guys like Beckham, Quentin, Viciedo and now Abreu start off with such promise and then completely fall apart. Eaton, Frazier and Saladino are the only reasons to watch, with Lawrie also slumping from his earlier form and Coats of course gets hurt his first game in the bigs. Hopefully he's not out for an extended period of time, as he deserves an opportunity for extended playing time. Does anyone enjoy watching Rollins, Avila, Shuck, Sands or Garcia hit? And, for most of the season, Austin Jackson could be added to that list of offensive anemia except at least he plays pretty good D still. Maybe Abreu comes out of it, but he's about as mentally shot as Matt Albers is right now. Feels like the whole team is shell-shocked, even Sale...and that's coming out of a series where they beat the Mets 2/3 on the road. We did give Pelfrey his first win of the season at least.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 04:58 PM) Realisticlly - there's no way to like this trade for this year unless we also complete more trades. There is also little evidence to support the idea that we are not making more trades. By the end of July, or sooner - I fully expect this lineup or similar: Eaton Cabrera Abreu Frazier Bruce Lawrie Jackson Anderson Navarro / Avila At which point Bruce will devolve into the player we've seen the last 2-3 seasons in CINCY but the White Sox will be short Spencer Adams. But that's great because we have a stupid compensation pick instead of Desmond or Fowler. That's really helpful about right now, as we're going to have to give up more than the equivalent of that pick just to get rid of all those AB's for Garcia, Sands, Shuck and Rollins.

Obviously, having Cabrera and Jackson out came at the worst possible time. But it's up to the coaching staff and front office to figure out how to get through it instead of watching things snowball. KC was 1 game under .500 and got to 8 games over while simultaneously having to replace 25-30% of their roster, including 3 All-Stars. Cleveland has been without Brantley, Almonte (PEDS), Byrd (PEDS), Carrasco missed most of the first two months, and yet that hasn't stopped them from getting on a run. Gomes is clearly not back to the same player he was before his injury, either. Their freakin' outfield is Rajai Davis, Lonnie Chisenhall and Jose Ramirez. C'mon!!!! Uribe and Napoli are playing key roles, too.

6-17 stretch after they were up 6/7/8 over their three main ALCD competitors. 3-11 against KC/CLE/DET "Hard luck" Jose Quintana vs. Justin Verlander looming...and then an off-day. Trading for James Shields when they have about 5-6 more obvious needs (although Latos has been pretty bad since his first 4 amazing starts to begin the season.) Brilliant! Starting to think that everyone needs to be gone...and then an objective outsider brought in to realistically assess a possible fix for 2017 before they consider blowing it up completely. You just added Shields' contract, so trading your core doesn't make much sense, especially when Abreu is worth about as much as a ticket to watch the US Men's Soccer Team these days. Tigers only 1 1/2 GB from knocking the White Sox back into 4th place. 1) Albers is cooked...so need to move Putnam to that role or add another reliever or pray Petricka comes back to form. 2) Sands/Shuck don't belong on an MLB roster. 3) Rollins and Avila also don't belong on the roster anymore 4) We only have three reliable relievers at the moment. 5) We have zero offense against RHP other than Eaton/Frazier/Cabrera. 6) Continued erosion of defense and more and more misplays recently...can't do much with RISP, every aspect of the ballclub is falling apart. Sale has lost his best fastball, Q's devolving into his hard luck/zero run support guy (joining Miguel Gonzalez), and Rodon can't take the next step forward, looking more like a 4 than a 2 at the moment. 7) Don Cooper looks like he's wearing pajamas rather than a big league uniform, and the team (other than Coats) is about as lethargic as a three-toed tree sloth or bear coming out of hibernation. Might need fresh blood across the coaching staff...things have just gotten stale. Pitch calling hasn't been good, are there any positives right now other than Eaton and Frazier? OR, Hahn just managed a smoke and mirrors start (fueled largely by wins over MN, OAK, Toronto and Texas) that created the illusion of a competitive team...?

Verlander vs. Q tmrw screams 1-0 loss for the Sox with 12 k's against a rejuvenated Justin who has been pitching much better recently. Now Saladino can't make the play in the sloppy conditions...needed to use his glove probably and just get rid of it as quickly as possible. Never felt so depressed about a White Sox team 2 games over .500 and possibly just 2 or no worse than 2 1/2 games back. Now Ventura has to use Duke. 6/15 with four doubles for Cabrera against Duke. Funny. Finally, mercifully that half inning is over.

This whole thing of blaming KW for Shuck or Sands is based on what exactly? White Sox completely falling apart at the seams...aggressiveness from Lawrie backfiring there, of course. When it rains it pours. But glad we didn't use Albers yesterday down by 2, lol.

Albers' confidence is shot. Not going to get it back against this Tigers' lineup. We needed another rh reliever, outfield bat/lhb or dh or replacement for Avila even more. Rollins is done. Shuck and Sands are just not getting at-bats on a good team. Avi is still what we thought he was. Rodon hasnt taken a step forward and Sale is struggling without hs best fastball. Not to mention Latos' struggles...

Worst defensive outfield now on the field in mlb will come into play?

Would like to say that's the death knell for Sands but maybe not with Shuck and a possibly injured Coats behind him.

Martinez 5/12 against Albers.

Yeah, forgot Eaton wasn't in CF. Now Albers hurt in slippery conditions.

Great play by Coats, though...hard situation with it right between them. Coats cut his lip it seems.