caulfield12

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 04:57 PM) I mean, at what point are you weighing offers and at what point do you just basically say "you have to give me this, this, this, and this or no deal" ? Everyone has a price, but there's no way I'm openly shopping Chris Sale. As I said in here, if you trade Chris Sale, you are essentially committing towards a rebuild towards 2016 or 2017. You are throwing in the towel for the remaining 3-4 years, because Jose Quintana and Hector Santiago aren't leading you to the playoffs and there isn't enough offensively to get you there either, so by the time you are ready, those guys are either free agents or in their final year of arbitration eligibility. It becomes a very long process. Now, if you keep Sale, you keep Quintana and Santiago, bring in Erik Johnson, have one more starter (Danks, Peavy, Snodgress, Beck, Anna Kournikova, whoever), and you can patch an offense together and win a lot of games. At this juncture, you have to consider Chris Sale to be one of the most 3 most valuable players in the majors due to talent and contract. Given that, you need an offer similar to this to make the move (this was Red Sox offer for King Felix in 2009) RHP Clay Buchholz RHP Daniel Bard RHP Justin Masterson LHP Nick Hagadone RHP Michael Bowden LHP Felix Doubront OF Josh Reddick SS Yamaico Navarro (found here: http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...;#entry1974049) All good to very good prospects. Maybe 2 have really stuck and performed well. It's a risky game. Good mention, but I would go for Sharapova...

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 04:26 PM) That's how the media has been for a while now. They polarize and pick sides so you can read their articles. Nobody wants to read an article that says "Yasiel Puig? He's a good player, and he's had a big impact, but he hasn't but up long enough and shouldn't but in the all star game, though honestly I wouldn't care if he played either way." Chris Frazier · Works at Forever Resorts Does Jadeveon Clowney look 19..no he doesn't. Puig comes from a well educated family in Cuba. His parents are both engineers. He's 22 and has only been playing professional baseball in America for less than a year. Give the "kid" a break. It breaks his heart when he messes up, whether it be in the field or at the plate. And we call his excitement, joy and passion for the game arrogance. Bryce Harper just last year replied to a reporters question with a smug, "that's a clown questions bro", and we made a t-shirt out of it. And former D-back Justin Upton flipped his bats and walked slowly after homeruns when he first got to the league. Upton has grown up now, and Puig will soon as well. There's a reason he's getting so much attention. He plays the game the right way. HARD. Remember, he's played about 30 games at this level. Reply · 3 · Like · Follow Post · 2 hours ago Marwan Razouk · Top Commenter · San Diego, California Puig is from another country and is barely acclimating to his new surroundings. He's not about fraternizing with the opponent. An opponent that hit him in the face, by the way. After he got hit in the face, he took first base without incident. Does not sound like a punk to me. Oh, and you all wish he was on your team. Reply · 3 · Like · Follow Post · 4 hours ago Dan White Bitter fans that see there lead slipping away to the Dodgers, whom most of them were fans of prior to 1998. Reply · 2 · Like · Edited · 4 hours ago Amanda Reeks The bitterness on my part is true. It's harder to enjoy baseball when some teams have bottomless pits for payroll. The Dodgers payroll is about triple what the Dbacks can spend. I would say that the Dodgers are hardly three times better than the Dbacks even if they eventually overtake them. Reply · Like · 4 hours ago Gary Phelps · Top Commenter {yawn} the day I care what dodger trolls have to say is the day hell freezes over. Reply · 4 · Like · 4 hours ago View 8 more Eric G. Crocker · Death Penalty Lawyer at Phoenix, Arizona Just another foreigner being overpaid with a team that hasn't been relevant since 1988 in terms of the World Series. Add in the ownership problems, and... there ya have it. A loser on a losing team.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 04:19 PM) How's this for polarizing - I don't think he should go but I couldn't care less. The resulting media backlash has already started...articles like this, written solely with a TMZ style to try to tear Puig down. Now Mark McGwire is sort of a modern day King Solomon/peacemaker/baseball historian, lol. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/d...cgwire/2504523/ This is like something out of the National Enquirer or Kardashian/Jersey Shore circus atmosphere.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 02:39 PM) I still think Pence makes more sense for us, but there's some chance SF pays handsomely to keep him there. He'd be a nice, marketable face to have around here and he may be overlooked by some of the other people vying for OFers Why? History shows Sox fans don't support anything less than playoff worthy teams. Let's say Puig, Harper, Trout or Machado (one of them, of course) were on the White Sox and the record was still the same, would there be a huge bump in attendance? Knowing Chicago fans, probably not. Did Beckham in 2009 bump up the attendance?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 04:09 PM) They weren't all BA number ones. Hamilton was. The rest weren't. I'll even give Hamilton a pass. Let's just imagine that the Sox traded for the #1 prospect in baseball and that was the year Wieters was #1. They got a solid starting catcher putting up similar OPS to AJ. Is that a good deal? Yeah sure there'd be some additional parts, but is that a good deal for the Sox? He's a solid player but he's not putting up 1.000+ OPS numbers. Then BJ Upton and his current situation is another example....although he was very good up until the end for the Rays, albeit frequently disappointing based on his physical ability and what he actually got out of it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 03:52 PM) For 2013, yes. Until this year, no. And I think from a historical point of view, your numbers are high by a factor of 10. I'll agree, if Buddy Bell was in charge of their development...somehow you know it would be a big fail for the White Sox, just like the 1999-2001 period of great farm systems MOSTLY worked out for the White Sox because of Jose Contreras and Freddy Garcia being married to Guillen's cousin or whatever, not because all those starting pitching prospects ever blossomed with us. Look at what happened with Borchard and Rauch, the two biggest prospects we've had between Beckham and the Thomas/Ventura/Fernandez/McDowell drafts.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 04:02 PM) I wouldn't feel nearly as strongly about him missing if it weren't for this forum. It's actually amusing, that so many people are actively rooting against him, because of a thread or two on a message board forum, haha. That's fine, it is making this baseball season easier for me to deal with.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 04:01 PM) I still say I will trade Sale if Mike Trout is on the market. I don't care if a team is trading me the #1 prospect in baseball, I don't. Those guys don't always turn into all-stars. Heyward's been struggling. Weiters has been good but not great (.708 OPS this year). Delmon Young was a #1. Matsuzaka was a #1. Don't forget Josh Hamilton, Matt Cain, Tim Lincecum, Pujols, Greinke, etc. David Price, to a lesser extent. Strasburg isn't quite the same pitcher as before, either.

We have to cross our fingers and pray he doesn't go down to elbow surgery in 2014 or 2015 or we'll all be revisiting this thread and saying what an idiot Hahn was for holding onto him too long when each year going forward (riddled with non-competitive teams and sub-.500 records and apathy) the White Sox ended up blowing the opportunity of a decade to rebuild their franchise and breathe new life back into it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 03:48 PM) They aren't in his corner. They are in their own ratings corner. Big difference. So you would differentiate that from Obama 100%?...they (the so-called traditional as well as blogging/new age media) were all politically liberal and "left leaning," AND it was in their best interest because very few people had "in the middle of the road" thoughts and either loved or hated him, more or less? More page views = more advertising revenue, more revenue=higher profits and higher salaries for media. Puig is the perfect story in many respects, he represents the American Dream (the new version of it, as well as the anti-immigrant/backlash side of it), he's a minority, that brings a certain degree of controversy with it...he plays for the new Death Star L.A. Empire (since the Yankees are no longer so hate-worthy as 10-15 years ago, with the Red Sox also joining in)...there's always nobody saying they don't have an opinion or don't care. Then you have the Papelbon's and Bochy's and other players representing baseball tradition, that he hasn't earned his stripes yet, that he's taking a spot away from someone more deserving...and yet that wasn't said nearly as much last year when Trout and Harper made it. I'm exaggerating a bit to make a point, but the Puig argument is pretty polarizing, even for non-Dodgers fans. Everyone has a pretty strong viewpoint, one way or the other. It's not like ANYBODY cares who takes the last spot in the AL (the five relievers).

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 03:46 PM) The discussion has become that having prospects is somehow better than having a major league team for a lot of people. f*** that s***. Given the choice, I choose the major league team every single time. Of course, for the White Sox we are in s***ty major league team, s***ty farm system/development, the worst case scenario. Not that I would trade teams, but, from a fan's point of view, they have more reasons for optimism...maybe there's only a 25-50% chance it actually works out, but they're following a concerted strategy and not just throwing darts at a board.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 02:38 PM) But he won't be here. How much is the option for? A team trading him could look at him as a guy that they also get next year. no way, he's paid almost like a closer, it would be a huge overpay just on salary alone, not to mention surrendering anything of value prospect-wise.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 03:04 PM) This only makes sense if: 1) The Sox want to do a long-term rebuild like the Cubs or Astros, and it is the precursor to dumping off literally everyone else worth anything 2) You get multiple ML ready position players and then decide to keep Peavy and Rios and compete next year And 2 just doesn't happen quite as much as it used to. Although the Haren for Skaggs/Corbin payoff would be a nice outcome...add in a position prospect at AA/AAA, done, steak dinner, boom.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 02:44 PM) I'm starting to hate Puig so much that I will actively avoid the innings he would play in the A-S game That sounds like the next yahoo contributor network article. You should just write an article bashing him, the hype, the media and Commissioner's office all campaigning for him actively, Don Mattingly, all the messageboard hooligans like me, it would be funny. But you have to be really over the top and act almost like you hate him on a visceral level. Like many people feel about Harper.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 02:31 PM) Worth noting is that the Boras guy is Ellsbury's agent. Yeah, he could get $18-20 million. And Viciedo's. And Kendrys Morales.

QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 01:23 PM) When did Balta hit his head? I don't recall you being this slow back when I used to post here regularly. It's a fascinating development. Right around the time of the Cubs' series...the 3 games.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 02:27 PM) I'd tune into the game just to watch Barry Bonds if he were selected, but I wouldn't vote for him. That's an extremely flawed and weak argument. It doesn't matter. No way Selig will have the All-Star Game without Puig there now. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money they find a way, somehow.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 02:17 PM) I tweeted him and asked about that. Hayes responded to me that Thornton has an option for next year. I thought he was free at year's end. team option, i think he will get a 500K buyout....he's GONE

Fine, the simplest argument of all. Is there ANYONE besides Braves' fans and Greg Walker who are going to tune in specifically to watch Freddie Freeman get one AB and maybe 2-3 innings on the field?

QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 02:12 PM) https://twitter.com/DanHayesCSN/status/355055545486544896 "price for Thornton is steep". Um, ok. Sets way back machine to 2006-2010 before Jim Thome at-bat.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 02:05 PM) I understand the reasoning, I just don't agree with it. I get that he has no stats to ooh and ahh over but there are people who have seen him. People who do this for a living and he was very highly regarded by many of them. Obviously, kids like him have an enormously high bust rate and likelihood of making the majors should be taken into account. However, pure potential, should also matter. Michael Ynoa, Miguel Sano, Gary Sanchez and Jurickson Profar were all ranked by BA in their respective organizations top prospects (3, 4, 7, 5) just months after their signings and without playing any games in any league yet as well (and all were several months younger than Zapata). If the people doing the ranking wanted to leave him out of their ranks that's fine, but if enough people included him and as a result he fell in the top 25, it should have been taken into account IMO. I mean, if we were trying to make a trade with another team and they had a choice between Zapata and Santos Rodriguez, it's fairly safe to assume what player they would choose to take. Right. Or even Daniel Webb vs. Zapata, there'd be an excellent debate, as the White Sox, more than anything else, need/lack young power bats at every position in the line-up besides Viciedo (he makes it).

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 12:21 PM) We all know what the standard is in high school baseball, though the hay is really made in club ball. We see these kids at events like Area Code Games and elite club tournaments where they often match up against other draft talent. Even when not, scouts know how good a given American player's competition is. Look at Tim Anderson, who may be a high-high-first round talent but there was too much uncertainty about his competition to know for sure. Now imagine a 16-year-old who has only played against a bunch of exploited kids in a country where there are many fewer scouts and eyeballs in a bunch of simulated games. Disagree wholeheartedly....there's a reason why players like Albert Pujols, Logan Morrison, etc., weren't noticed playing JC ball in KC, or why Mark Buehrle slipped out of the entire draft almost. If anything, there are too many buscones and too many eyes on them, but don't kid yourself....there are a plethora of scouts there and in Venezuela.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 01:58 PM) WTF Overlay that NL voting map against either the 2008 or 2012 presidential election map. They're pretty close to identical, comparing Puig and Freeman head-to-head. One mustn't forget, there's likely to be some racism (subtle or overt) at play here as well. But that discussion is opening up a whole different can of worms.

I think we keep Dunn and roll the dice on being able to compete next year if we can add 2 pieces. No more than 2 though....McCann will be expensive, and so will Ellsbury. Choo would be the other good option for leadoff. And I would prefer Jacoby, simply because he's already in the AL and it seems NL players often have difficulty transitioning to the AL in their first season. Of course, Choo also is quite familiar with the AL and AL Central. And I think you absolutely have to deal Danks/Peavy and either Rios or Ramirez...probably can't keep both of them, and still come up with the payroll numbers that will work from JR's perspective.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 10, 2013 -> 01:53 PM) caulfield, you must be watching/listening to different things than me, as just about everyone I've heard doesn't think Puig should make it. There's a solid majority of the national baseball media network in his corner though. This really is a lot like Obama/Hillary, and then the Obama presidential elections. The "media" bias issue. The East and West coast vs. the South/Heartland. The old school traditional values/conservative "silent majority" being for Freeman. It's fascinating, if you look at the voting trends, even on a county by county basis. Of course, Pence dominates the northern half of CA. Maybe if he wasn't on the ballot, then Freeman would probably lose, along with the early votes going to Adrian Gonzalez.