caulfield12

Where's PTAC with the recovery schedule if there is a surgery on a partially torn labrum? Rauch had this, Santana (I think), Halladay going through it this year but no surgery. They've told him that he can't make it worse but he doesn't seem to want to push through it or pitch with anything resembling abnormal pain. Well, unless you're in his shoes, u can't know what it feels like, but he's got a guaranteed contract for 5 years so you'd think he would be showing more desire to come back and help us since he's only seen a pennant race in 2008 and 2010.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 29, 2012 -> 12:40 PM) Coming off a down season where he spent time on the DL and there wasn't much interest in him on the trade market makes the 5-year deal anything but 100% the right move at the time. It was a gamble that blew up pretty big. I don't know about $100 million (someone else mentioned), but $70-85 at least. Danks probably isn't quite a $100 million guy. You would have thought Lester and Romero were even better, and look how they've regressed. Marty, what's the point? You would have already traded Alexei Ramirez and Viciedo and you would be in the process of losing Greinke. Too bad Liriano and Greinke don't face each other next Friday, lol. We could have a head-to-head showdown of ur choice versus mine. If Sale goes Wednesday, it's a possibility that Greinke faces Liriano, although they're more likely to make it Sale vs. Greinke and give Chris time to work through the dead arm in side sessions.

Don't think we'll get so lucky with the Tigers against Cecil today. Already rocked for 3 runs and staggering. Cecil, Romero, Marcum....all Jays/former Jays on the market. Although I think AA knows he needs to turn around Romero if they want to compete. Cecil just has nothing and has no prayer against RHBers. After this year's Rios performance and Santos/Molina, I don't think AA will be handing us Romero as well. Cecil recovered, but Fister pitched a great game. 4-1 going into the bottom of the 9th, we'll see if Papa Grande can blow or human rain delay this game to death. Peralta has 2 dingers.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 29, 2012 -> 10:20 AM) The Twins scouts haven't been right very much recently. This was a salary dump and Escobar was the tallest midget they were offered. He strikes out more than 1 in 4 AB. Hits .159 against RHP with a .190 slugging pct. He's a back up at best, and the Twins, a last place team playing for nothing, are sending him to AAA. Please stop with the dramatics. He's an easily replaceable piece. Hoey over Hardy Garza/Bartlett for Young dumping their entire bullpen after 2010 Nishioka and Casilla up the middle Valencia had to give up Nathan, Cuddyer, Young and Kubel because of Morneau and Mauer's deals Slowey, Duensing and Blackburn regressed, Baker hurt and inconsistent, Kyle Gibson injured Willingham, the one thing to go right recently....and Diamond, and some of their young bullpen arms are coming along, Perkins has been pretty good...Revere too, but no pop and a carbon copy of Span when they need to get more power in that huge stadium

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jul 29, 2012 -> 08:46 AM) Gonzo believes the Sox will make 2 more deals. 1) Thornton/Floyd (Crain's not tradeable until he proves he's healthy) for prospects 2) Utility guy/bench 3) Another pitcher in the Liriano or below tier 4) Still keeps open the conversation with Theo about Dempster if the Braves and Dodgers don't come through

Shortstops Jason Bartlett (33) - $5.5MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout; vests with 432 PAs in 2012 Yuniesky Betancourt (31) Geoff Blum (39) Ronny Cedeno (30) Stephen Drew (30) - $10MM mutual option with a $1.35MM buyout (too expensive to acquire, no place to start unless it's for Beckham) Alex Gonzalez (35) - vesting option Cesar Izturis (33) will probably be made available by the Brewers for not much Jhonny Peralta (31) - $6MM club option with a $500K buyout (no way, although the Tigers should find a better SS for 2013) Marco Scutaro (37) (just traded to Giants to start at 2B) Miguel Tejada (39) Ryan Theriot (33) Omar Vizquel (46) Jack Wilson (35) My vote's for Uribe with lots of cash back from the now penthouse residing Dodgers (in terms of future revenues rolling in from tv deal and new owners)

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 28, 2012 -> 10:48 PM) No one predicted Liriano but my scenario about an experienced AL pitcher and not hurting the future of the team was right. Right now, you're diligently identifying all those guys like Liriano, maybe Garza (because of the injury) or Maholm, Vargas, Blanton, Kevin Correia from the Pirates, Jorge DeLa Rosa...you find two of those guys that Cooper really likes (having perhaps identified a simple mechanical fix) and bring them in to audition for 2013. None of those guys would be starters that would be offered $12.5 million or more in arbitration. So basically, you've got a three-pronged approach. 1) You preserve Sale, Peavy and Quintana so they're able to go late into the season and post-season 2) You still have the option to use Danks but you don't have to force him into the rotation if he's not ready 3) You have the luxury to audition Floyd, Liriano and starter #6 for the 2013 team. One of the better second tier pitchers, you can trade them Humber + a prospect (15-30) to acquire that guy. The other one, you can use your depth of relief pitchers in combination with Johnson/Snodgress/Rienzo/Molina/Castro/Hernandez/Santiago. It's going to be a BIT tricky passing pitchers through waivers, but not every team competing for the playoffs has the financial flexibility we do because of the Myers/Youk trades AND because of possible insurance money on the Danks contract.

Hawkins ended 3/5 on the night. Mitchell 0/2 with 2 walks, 2 K's

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/...scobar-farewell Kenny Williams never seems to get a lot of respect. During his tenure as Chicago White Sox general manager, which began after the 2000 season, he's built two division winners, including the 2005 World Series champions. Maybe the most impressive aspect of his reign is that the White Sox are always competitive. They've been under .500 just three times, but two of those were 79-83. He's done this despite lacking the monster payrolls of teams such as the Yankees, Red Sox and Phillies; despite only once having a pick better than 12th in the first round of the draft; despite never having a franchise superstar like Barry Bonds to build around or pitchers like Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain, like Brian Sabean has had with the Giants; despite a farm system -- in part because of ownership's unwillingness to spend in the draft and because of that lack of high picks -- that usually ranks near the bottom (Keith Law and Baseball America both ranked the White Sox system 30th heading into the season). What I like about Williams is he never gives up. He's always trying to win, to build the best team he can given his resources. He never craters, never commits to a complete teardown and embarrassing on-field product, such as the one you're seeing from the Astros, Williams' 2005 World Series opponents. This is why trading for Francisco Liriano is a typical Kenny Williams move -- high risk, perhaps mocked, but one with a potential nice payoff. Liriano's season numbers with the Twins look terrible -- 3-10, 5.31 ERA -- and his last start (against the White Sox, of all teams) was a rough, seven-run blowup. But after an awful April and temporary trip to the bullpen, Liriano pitched very well in a 10-start stint from May 30 though July 18, posting a 2.84 ERA with 77 strikeouts, 28 walks and 38 hits in 63.1 innings (a .171 average allowed). That stretch included back-to-back starts of 15 strikeouts and 10 strikeouts against the A's and Orioles on July 13 and 18, respectively. In other words, there's a good chance Liriano will outpitch Zack Greinke the rest of the way, even though this trade will receive much less fanfare and required much less in prospect value: light-hitting infielder Eduardo Escobar and left-handed pitcher Pedro Hernandez. In fact, despite the much-maligned farm system, the White Sox have received contributions from several rookies, most notably on the pitching staff with Jose Quintana, closer Addison Reed, and relievers Nate Jones and Hector Santiago. With Quintana still the big surprise in the rotation, Liriano presumably takes the place of Philip Humber, who did pitch well in a 5-2 victory over the Rangers on Saturday, but that strong start barely got his ERA under 6.00. With the hope that John Danks might return from his shoulder issues, the White Sox now have rotation depth and options in case of injury or if they want to conserve Chris Sale's innings. The White Sox also have a lot to gain from a deal such as this; with a 2.5-game lead over the Tigers, winning the division title is obviously huge. There is a reason you're seeing teams contending for a division title making moves, while teams further back in the playoff chase -- such as the American League East wild-card contenders -- are more conservative. The reward for winning one of the two wild cards is essentially half as valuable as last season, with the one-game playoff plus the possibility that you've burned your best pitcher. But the payoff for the White Sox winning the division is worth taking a chance on Liriano.

ARLINGTON, Texas -- The surprising Chicago White Sox have made a move to stay on top of the AL Central, acquiring left-hander Francisco Liriano from their division rival Minnesota Twins on Saturday night. http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/...minnesota-twins (VIDEO with Sutcliffe and BOONE) More From ESPN.com The Chicago White Sox are taking a good risk in acquiring Francisco Liriano from the Minnesota Twins, writes Dave Schoenfield. Blog • Foster: Sox bid Escobar farewell • White Sox Blog | ESPN Chicago The Twins will receive infielder Eduardo Escobar and lefty prospect Pedro Hernandez. The White Sox tweeted the news after the Twins beat the Cleveland Indians and Chicago won in Texas. "He just has to come here and be solid," said Chicago first baseman Paul Konerko. "He doesn't have to throw shutouts. He just has to give us a chance to win. That's all we're looking for." An All-Star in 2006, Liriano was expected to be one of the Twins' top starters before undergoing reconstructive elbow surgery later that same year. His career has since been plagued by inconsistency and injury. He pitched a no-hitter last May 3 against the White Sox but was 9-10 with a 5.09 ERA for 2011. This year Liriano struggled at the start and was demoted to the bullpen after his ERA rose to 9.45 in early May. He has brought that number down to 5.31 in 11 starts since his return to the rotation but still is 3-10 this season. He has walked 55 and struck out 109 -- including a 15 K game on July 13, a 6-3 loss. In his most recent start, the White Sox tagged Liriano for seven runs in 2 2/3 innings on Monday. "Hopefully the change of scenery will help," White Sox designated hitter Adam Dunn said. "If he'll buy in to what we're doing over here, he can get back to what we know he's capable of doing." The 28-year-old Liriano is 50-52 with a 4.33 ERA in his career. Liriano, scheduled to be a free agent after this season, adds depth to a rotation headed by All-Star left-hander Chris Sale, right-handers Jake Peavy and Philip Humber and lefty Jose Quintana, who is 4-1 with a 2.58 ERA filling in for injured John Danks. Danks threw a bullpen session Friday, but there is no target date for his return. Sale, who leads the White Sox with 12 wins, has already thrown a career-high 124 innings. First-year manager Robin Ventura said he may look to get the left-hander some extra rest later in the season. Chicago has a 2½-game lead over the Detroit Tigers, the favorites to win the division. "I think (White Sox GM) Kenny (Williams) is just trying to do everything he possibly can to make us better pitching-wise," said Ventura. Twins general manager Terry Ryan said Liriano will stay in Minnesota until the White Sox arrive from Texas after Sunday's game. Both Escobar and Hernandez will go to Triple-A Rochester. Brian Duensing will start for Minnesota Sunday in place of Liriano. Escobar, 23, was hitting .207 (18 for 87) with four doubles and three RBIs in 36 games for the White Sox. "It's a tough one team-wise," Ventura said. "(Escobar) is kind of like a little brother or a son to most guys. He's taking it hard. It's just part of baseball. It happens to a lot of people. It will make us better though." Hernandez is also 23. He has split time at Double- and Triple-A this year, going 8-2 with a 2.94 ERA. He made his big league debut against Boston on July 18 and allowed eight runs in four innings.

http://comments.startribune.com/comments.p...br=1&ipp=10 You can get a sampling of all the comments made by Twins' fans here. Some are afraid of what Cooper might be able to accomplish with him, and how it will make Anderson and Gardy look incompetent. Liriano, 28, has been a prominent member of the trade rumor circuit for several years now. He's eligible for free agency after the season and is owed approximately $2.1MM for the remainder of the year. Injuries and inconsistency have dogged the left-hander throughout his career, and this year he's pitched to a 5.31 ERA in exactly 100 innings. The Twins originally acquired Liriano from the Giants as a minor leaguer as part of the A.J. Pierzynski-Joe Nathan swap back in 2003. He placed third in the Rookie of the Year voting in 2006 and earned Cy Young Award votes in 2010, but he's pitched to a 5.18 ERA in 234 1/3 innings since. Liriano went from the rotation to the bullpen and back to the rotation this year, posting a 3.68 ERA in 11 starts since becoming a starter again. The White Sox are adding one of the game's premier strikeout pitchers to their staff with the trade. Even during his down years, Liriano has always missed bats and he owns a 9.8 K/9 this season. Walks are an issue however, especially of late. Over the last two years he's walked five hitters for every nine innings pitched. He figures to join Chris Sale and Jose Quintana to make three lefties in the ChiSox rotation.

It wasn't shocking that the Twins traded Francisco Liriano late Saturday night, just three days before the nonwaiver trade deadline. But it was surprising to see him land with the division rival Chicago White Sox. The White Sox acquired Liriano for middle infielder Eduardo Escobar and lefthanded pitcher Pedro Hernandez, who are both heading to Class AAA Rochester for the Twins. Liriano was scheduled to start Sunday's game against Cleveland for the Twins. Now, he will wait around the Twin Cities until the White Sox arrive at Target Field on Monday and likely will face the Twins in that three-game series. "I'm not thrilled with trading him within the division, obviously," General Manager Terry Ryan said. "You guys know where we are in the standings." Saturday night's 12-5 victory over Cleveland pulled the Twins out of last place for the first time since April 25. Liriano, 28, is eligible for free agency after the season. Ryan said Liriano expressed interest in staying with the Twins, but the team did not offer the lefthander a contract extension. "We didn't want to be left with nothing [if Liriano left as a free agent]," Ryan said. Since making the All-Star team as a rookie in 2006, Liriano has had Tommy John reconstructive elbow surgery and gone through several ups and downs. He is 50-52 for his career and 3-10 with a 5.31 ERA this year. Those numbers don't begin to tell the story, of course. He twirled a no-hitter on May 3, 2011 -- coincidentally, against the White Sox. In his third-to-last start for the Twins, Liriano racked up 15 strikeouts against Oakland, but Monday he gave up seven runs in 22/3 innings -- once again, against the White Sox. "They know what they're getting, and I know what we're giving up," Ryan said. As for what the Twins are getting in return, neither Hernandez nor Escobar profiles as an elite prospect. Hernandez, 23, was traded to the White Sox from the Padres in December. A Venezuela native whose fastball generally sits in the 90-92-miles-per-hour range, Hernandez is 8-2 with a 2.94 ERA in 15 games combined this year between Class AA and Class AAA, including 14 starts. He made his major league debut for the White Sox on July 18 and gave up eight runs in four innings at Boston's Fenway Park. The Twins believe Hernandez can become a full-time starter in the big leagues, but Ryan didn't want to say if he's a No. 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 starter. "I'm not going to say that because I would have said that Scott Diamond's a potential number, and it wouldn't have been accurate," he said. "We'll let him make his own way. He has enough stuff. He's got a fastball, slider and a change. He throws a lot of strikes, which is good, but I'm not going to say he pitches to contact. He pitches to get outs." Baseball America had Escobar ranked as Chicago's 10th-best prospect after the 2011 season, but the White Sox farm system is notoriously thin. In 87 at-bats with the White Sox this season, Escobar hit .207 with no home runs. He went 2-for-5 with an RBI double in Chicago's 5-1 victory at Texas on Saturday night. He wasn't a regular for the White Sox, and the Twins view him as more than a utility infielder. "He's a switch hitter who can run," Ryan said. "He's got tremendous energy. He's strong enough. He can play shortstop. He can play second. He doesn't really profile at third offensively, but he can play there. Defensively you wouldn't have any problem with any of the three." startribune.com/sports

Yep, he's in the Top 5 in AL k's/9

1993-1994 and 2003 are right up there.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2012 -> 10:38 PM) We aren't going after Dempster. Merkin said it today...FWIW

Another idea would be bringing back Uribe...

QUOTE (bobryansson @ Jul 28, 2012 -> 10:30 PM) In the trade vein, any idea on the PTBL in the Meyers trade? Walker, Johnson, Semien or Kevan Smith in all likelihood. It's worth it, we desperately needed a veteran reliever with 3 pitches down in the pen and a calming presence with experience.

Kevin Slowey, Romero or Marcum is next. Dice-K...? LOL. Dempster will be traded to the White Sox if the Dodgers keep low-balling them and Braves don't restart talks. Theo doesn't care about the White Sox-Cubs stuff, only the return. So Dempster for Molina + another fairly advanced pitching prospect. Floyd to be marketed for all he's worth and possibly held onto.

QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Jul 28, 2012 -> 10:09 PM) and i wouldnt trade floyd. we still need him. if they want , trade him in the offseason, not now They can't trade him unless they agree to pick up the $9.5 million option first. This was the obvious move all along, instead of going after Greinke, Johnson, Shields, Garza, etc. It gives us lots of flexibility, someone who's familiar with the AL Central and all our opponents like his own team and the Royals, he can go back and forth from starting to the pen, he covers some of our weaknesses with Thornton, Santiago (getting RH hitters out better than LH) and Septimo's inexperience...then there's the whole Don Cooper factor. He is a free agent, but they have the right to offer him arbitration or a new contract/extension at any time, depending on how the new partnership goes. Great to see Terry Ryan sticking it to the Tigers. He traded them Young, so turnabout is fair play. I honestly don't think Williams is done. In the thread I started in TW, I suggested two pitchers, one of them being Liriano. From things we've been hearing tonight, the other pitcher might actually be Dempster for more of our minor league pitching, specifically, Molina. Although Castro, Rienzo, Snodgress, Johnson, Olacio, Petricka...they could also be involved. For some reason, I think that Floyd still might be moved IF IF IF KW can get back the piece he wants. If not, he's insurance for Danks So is Humber, who I was theorizing would be traded for another starter. We're in a great place now to go to the 6 man, not push Danks to come back....pick and choose how to use Sale, Quintana and Peavy down the stretch from series to series, matching up Liriano against LH dominant teams. Not since 2003, 2005-06, 2008 (before Quentin injury) and 2010 (26-5 run) have things looked so up in White Sox Nation. It's pretty amazing how absymal disasters (06-07 and 09-11) still led to recoveries in a relatively short time span....and kudos to everyone sticking it out with Dunn, Peavy and Rios, all who have been huge for us in 2012. I'll even give some credit to Ozzie, even though he was actually trying to stick it to KW by making Dunn humiliated by playing against LHP last year. In the meantime, we haven't traded Viciedo, Quintana, Reed, Jones, Santiago, etc. Pretty amazing. Although I think the PTBNL in the Astros deal might end up being someone everyone here wanted to keep like Walker, Johnson, Kevan Smith....maybe Semien.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 28, 2012 -> 03:03 PM) I guess no matter what the prices, Sox fans will pack the Cell if they believe the team is in the race. It looks like right now and as of the last home series, they do believe there's a realistic shot at winning the division. This year is perfect proof of why the Sox can never completely rebuild if it means losing 90 or more games for a few seasons. Sox fans want to win or they ain't coming. They now are coming again. Worst case scenario, they go into Minnesota with a 1/2 game lead. Hopefully Humber can relax and just pitch his game tonight, knowing the Tigers have already lost. Whatever he does, he can't get behind in the count or get them out with fastballs. Not to mention that with Greinke, Trout, Trumbo, Pujols and Weaver, the Angels might have the most superstar-laden team outside NY and BOS. Plus we have our own Boston star in YOUK, that's helped to build interest as well.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 05:49 PM) Blue Jays lineup is just terrible right now with all these injuries. No Bautista, Arencibia, Lind or Escobar See, now you did it to the Tigers. Alvarez just blew DET away today. 1-4 on their roadtrip, very similar to what happened with the Sox. Offense, similarly, has gone dormant and corpsy. Still have to play in Boston next, where they've struggled recently. Escobar had a homer, Rasmus 3 RBI's (HR) and hitting machine Encarnacion had yet another. Tigers "flat" and "tired" and taking lazy swings. Maybe passing the White Sox and taking first last weekend caused them to relax.

The PTBNL will likely be one of their draft picks from 2011 as draft picks cannot be traded until one year from the date they are signed. Myers contract pays him a bonus of $500K if and when he is dealt. Chicago is only responsible for $1 mil of Myers salary this year and will receive money from the Astros for either his vesting option or buyout, whichever one occurs, this offseason. I won’t pretend to know much about either of these players we received from the White Sox as their system is terrible and I doubt either one of these guys cracks our top 20, however, Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus did have this to say about Walters. All in all, I’m fine with this trade. Trading Myers was a must as paying him $10 mil next year once the option vested (45 games finished and doesn’t end up on the DL. He has already finished 29 games.) made no sense for a team rebuilding. He will likely be a setup man for Chicago basically assuring his option doesn’t vest. Climbingtalshill.com It's possible that it could be Walker or Erik Johnson, Kevan Smith, Semien...hopefully not the first two.

It's kind of like the White Sox with Konerko. There's just no way the Twins can trade Mauer, he has too much value to their franchise...it's a unique situation, like Ichiro for so long in Seattle. And knowing the Nationals, they would expect the Twins to eat part of his deal, and Minnesota just doesn't do that kind of move. Not with their attendance still being what it is. The Twins have a good line-up offensively, they actually need to be looking to improve their starting pitching, not subtracting Mauer.

Depending on what kind of trade MIA considers, MLB and the Commissioner's office are going to come down hard on Loria. Trading Josh Johnson is going to be a lot less defensible if they want to sell any season tickets next season. With his injury history and salary, you just don't see teams coming up with the type of package that equals his talent level (once again, when healthy). They've shown no indication of trying to trade Reyes or Buehrle, though. •Clubs identify the Dodgers, Orioles and Blue Jays as other aggressively suitors for Johnson while the White Sox, Red Sox, Braves, and Royals have checked in. If the Royals are serious about competing in 2013, Johnson would be the kind of pitcher they should be looking at...but it's going to cost Wil Myers + Odorizzi, something like that...one of their other young pitching prospects.

Lannan has to be considered a possibility. Pitchers whose teams don't want to carry their salary for the remainder of the season or have an option for next year, etc. Let's see how Humber does tonight...hard to be optimistic, but he showed up against the Red Sox. Totally erratic, though, from game to game. Dice-K is another of those guys, but doesn't seem likely the Red Sox are going to want to help us again after YOUK has performed so well for us. Then again, not even John Henry is beyond wanting some salary relief with so many bad contracts on that team. He's supposed to come back soon. Fits the profile of a guy who's going to be passed through waivers in early August.