caulfield12

"The Pohlads are too cheap to go beyond the $113 million pay roll they now have" What more do you want them to do? Who do you want them to bring in? Who's available for what we have right now? I don't see this as rock bottom. There are no pitchers pitching well---don't ya think they should have known this was coming? They gave up six guys who were pretty good last year in the bullpen. There are guys playing who would not be playing for anyone else. Why would we think these guys are going to start hitting? It is not going to happen. I think the Twins franchise started to believe they would win just because they are the Twins. When that feeling encompasses an organization - watch out - you are going to get throttled. And we are and will continue to be. Hopefully the players will be embarrassed and will get back to being hungry for the 2012 season. But, it will take significant losses and roster changes in the next 11 months for that to happen." I quote this simply because I believe the White Sox were also overconfident coming out of the gate, especially after the first two games when they simply dismembered the Indians. Then the Alexei triple play, the constant bullpen implosions, the team is just sort of shell-shocked. They hit that run of really good pitching and they're about to go through the same buzzsaw again for the next two weeks. What team emerges at the end of the tunnel, God only knows. But you can't blame most of this on the closer situation anymore. It goes way beyond that. Now every game there are 2-3 mental errors and 2-3 physical errors that are almost inexplicable for modern baseball players. You really thought after beating the Yankees twice in a row in the "Stadium" they would snap out of it, but just the opposite has happened.

Just out of curiosity, how many game threads have been closed before the game actually ends?

Don't tempt me to return to Dark Cloud-ism. It will start a reign of terror and fear unparalled since the Inquisition and the French Revolution.

QUOTE (since56 @ Apr 30, 2011 -> 09:29 PM) Kw has put together a collection of talented players, instead of a team. Which has been the case every season since 2005, especially 2006. TOO much tinkering. You can't change out 8-10 players every season without suffering a loss in team chemistry and cohesiveness. That's where the Twins have the advantage. They've promoted players in waves who have won together in the minors, were drafted and developed together, by the time they leave the organization, they've often been playing together for 8-10 years. With that philosophy, you learn how to trust in and rely on your teammates. It's only now that they have a huge payroll and have lost the chip on their shoulder that they're struggling not being in the perpetual underdog/Piranha role.

If Bell is named manager, I'm going to become the 2nd J4Life around here.

The funny thing is that they were out there Saturday for early bunting practice as a team. Little help that did. Camp Cora. And Ozzie's mid-season tirades about fundamentals that change things for about 3-5 games and then the old patterns and habits are resuscitated. I agree. It's very hard to imagine the malaise or funk they're currently in turning around, especially with the West Coast looming. This might be the most interesting Twins-Sox two game set in recent memory. I'm predicting that whichever team sweeps it, they'll go on to win the ALCD. In all likelihood, it will be a split. Neither team is playing well enough to beat each other two consecutive games.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 30, 2011 -> 09:18 PM) I watched it too. I'm constantly totally amazed at how many weak pop ups our guys hit. And how games just utterly turn to crap and steamroll out of control at some point. Do you realize since the bullpen implosion when we were 7-4 or whatever, we have had what, one save situation? Two save situations? We're not even in games. Yep, this week against the Yankees, the first two. And the other win was in Tampa Bay, where we won 1 of 4 games to even the season series somehow.

QUOTE (La Marr Hoyt HOF @ Apr 30, 2011 -> 09:11 PM) What's the point/value of a manager if he's not accountable for performance? The exact same question was asked of Rongey in the post-game. He kind of danced around it and decided not to argue too much, it was more along the lines of my response above. By the way, we've just witnessed the "second string quarterback" with Cora managing the last two games. Not much reason to believe he's the one to do it. It's one thing to take out the manager is mid-season, but Walker and Baines would probably both leave (I know, I know, Bainsey isn't a huge loss) with Ozzie. That's a pretty dramatic change to make. Cox and Cooper would stick it out. That's my guess at least. As Fathom has mentioned numerous times, Cooper would really love to manage this team. It's a theory. At least you have the idea he's separate from the ex-Sox players "clique" that Ozzie has surrounded himself with.

Bobby Cox would leave the National League and take over the worst team in baseball? You'd have to be someone like Larry Brown (NBA) or Bobby Valentine or Showalter, someone with an ego and hubris bigger than even Ozzie's to think that you could right the ship by your mere presence. Davey Johnson also comes to mind. But there's no way in hell it would be Bobby Cox. Torre? 5% chance at best.

1. 95% of it is on the players 2. There are very very few instances of coaching seasons mid-season having any demonstratable effect (McKeon in FLA comes to mind) 3. 2005 (handling the near-collapse), 2008 and the 26-5 run from last year buy Ozzie the benefit of the doubt. 4. Theoretically, there's too much talent for the White Sox to keep playing this bad defensively. 5. How many coaching/managerial changes have happened in April or May of a baseball season? 6. Dunn and Rios are/were recovering from injuries, Beckham's totally lost (along with Thornton) and we don't have Peavy back. Juan Pierre isn't THAT bad. Nor is AJ. And Sergio Santos is THE MAN. 7. Look at the back of their baseball cards... 8. Chris Rongey (playing GM in post-game yesterday) said he'd do nothing if he was KW.

It was worse from 2003-2008 or 2009. During that time, you had the feeling the Cubs might actually go all the way. This year's team very well might have a better record than the Sox (still not likely), but I can't see them making the playoffs. Not yet. Give it another month and a half. Let's see where both teams are respectively.

The Twins were 9-15 in April, 2006. The only question is where are our Sox verions of Santana and Liriano going to come from? Gardy's solution: We start tomorrow at 0-0!!!! Really? This is the solution? I wish my boss would think like that when we have a bad day at the office. I guess things change when you make millions, and only work 6 months a year... How can Justin and Cuddy keep cashing those checks, and still sleep at night. $15mill and $10mill for those two, and Gardy can't call them out for playing like Punto? I have said it before, when you are small market, you have to have your horses perform, because you can only afford two or three, the rest of the roster will be AAA players. Joe, Justin and Cuddy are giving us nothing, nothing at all. $50mill/yr for those 3, OMG.... REFUND!!!!!!!!! startribune.com/sports

Speaking of the worst case scenario. I guess it's not having a crowd of over 26,000 again except for the Cubs, Yankees and Red Sox. Indians win yet again in the bottom of the 13th. Orlando Cabrera tonight (no walk off Grand Salami) after Leyland walks two batters intentionally to load the bases with one out and a runner on 3rd. Indians are really executing well with bunts and all facets of the game. 9 games back and falling like a stone.

Well, that's another "plus" on the Joey Cora managerial resume. Maybe the worst baseball of the season from an overall perspective during this four game stretch. Was 2010 really THIS bad the first 6-8 weeks? I don't remember it being like this....frustrating, lack of offense, but not every aspect of the team falling apart at the seams.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 30, 2011 -> 08:55 PM) I think Rios will turn it around soon. Didn't you already declare the season over? LOL. Maybe it is, who knows. Indians have a chance to win it in the bottom of the 13th. Let's see what Rongey's callers have to say tonight. We're all gluttons for punishment.

Kansas City leading the Twins 11-2. The only pleasure I have left these days is reading the Minneapolis Star Tribune and reading the message threads there after another loss. They're better than our game threads. The Astros just passed us with a win, so for tonight it's the White Sox, Twins and Padres fighting it out for worst record in MLB. Sox fans don't have the patience to go through a 2 or 3 week stretch of bad baseball. 4 or 5 years minimum of it, and I think SS2k5 may be on to something if its full blown, and most will walk away until they can buy playoff tickets again. Well, the Cubs aren't doing much better. Their ticket sales are slumping, too. So it's not an impossible situation. I always go back to how things felt at the end of 2007. Total apathy, a bit of excitement about Fields and some for Owens after he had four or five hits against the Twins, but it was BLEAK BLEAK BLEAK. It just took that one offseason to turn things around. Things are a lot more complex this time, but there are some similarities. It will be VERY interesting to see the reactions of the Pohlads in Minnesota (with the new stadium there) and JR going forward if this continues for another 2 weeks.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 30, 2011 -> 07:56 PM) I picked 20 years on purpose. The late 80s into the early 90's were horrible years where the teams sucked and no one went to the games. Sox fans are already infamous for being bandwagon fans, and if all of the players got traded off, it isn't a big leap of faith to expect crowds to drop back into Cleveland Indians range because there is a history of it on the southside. Heck people are already swearing off going to games. Can you imagine that minus all of the star players, and a couple of ninety loss seasons later? I have history on my side. YOU have your feelings. The new stadium and the talent of those early 90's teams, 1990-94 wasn't GREAT attendance wise but it wasn't anything close to horrible. Most of the 60's, 70's and 80's, brutal, sure. That mid to late 90's youth movement took a long time to bear fruition in 2000 as well.

QUOTE (docsox24 @ Apr 30, 2011 -> 08:23 PM) FWIW the sox scouts believe Flowers has made major adjustments and will get the majority of at bats at catcher in 2012. Now I understand if you don't have much faith in the scouting staff right now So they're just going to eat $6 million for AJ's contract next year? I guess it only "averages" $4 million per season, but we can't afford to go into a rebuilding period eating contract after contract.

Guaranteeing Thornton, AJ and Teahen those contract numbers for multiple years might be the end of the KW era. At least it SHOULD be. Especially the last two guys. Along with Linebrink. And Pierre. And Peavy. And Rios. And destroying Gordon Beckham.

DJ has a good theory. The White Sox are making so many mistakes behind him defensively, he just tries (Thornton) to "take the bull by the horns" and strike them all out. But when you try too hard to strike someone out, you actually start to lose velocity from your normal, fluid delivery.

So much for trading Matt Thornton. LOL. This entire team needs to be lobotomized so they can't THINK at all.

"This is where the fans will boo. Can't blame 'em. This is ugly." Darrin Jackson "That's just ugly." AGAIN. AJ is too tired? Boo hoo. AJ basically has had a large part in costing us 2 games now. Dunn actually did a good job keeping Andino off 3B.

Royals also leading the Twins by 1 going into the 8th. Tiggers and Indians tied in the 11th. 9 games back already? Almost at the 9.5 "low tide" mark from 2010.

13.50 ERA for Gonzalez, but obviously a former closer with the Pirates and potentially a K for Dunn. Which MIGHT be better than a double play ball.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Apr 30, 2011 -> 07:47 PM) Come on Adam, lift and launch! Are you related to Elaine Benes? This is only funny if you watch Seinfeld, btw.