caulfield12

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 02:25 PM) The only thing I don't like about aggresively pursuing Cespedes is that he is another right handed hitter. If Dunn flops again, this team still lacks a left handed presence in the lineup. I don't know how mangagement has overlooked this glaring shortcoming. We don't have a potent left handed bat anywhere in the organization. Oh well, at this point we may not have a potent right handed bat, save Konerko. He is a 5 tool player, but is he really good enough defensively to play CF? Can he steal bases? If he can do those two things, he might be worth the money, even if he doesn't fulfill the promise of a huge bat in the middle of the order. It's hard to imagine him not being at least a productive offensive player, with the way he has been dominating Cuban Leagues. I mean the guy averaged over an RBI per game last year!!! Borchard fail Thome canned too early by Ozzie Swisher fail

Greg, is it really going to be like this all season long? I hope you give Ventura a fair shake for managing in what one would imagine will be a very trying period of White Sox history. Makes one almost miss the days of arguing about Pierre and Jenks, moreso than the off the field nonsense.

Even if we sign Cespedes, quite a few will be whining about it when he doesn't make the club out of Spring Training...saying it's another Rios/Dunn/Peavy/Beckham bust. OTOH, at least we'd lead the majors in one category, "best highlight/training/batting practice showcase videos" to go along with Viciedo and Harper.

Don't follow up with MELANCHOLIA, MARLEY & ME or WAR HORSE, lol. Try HUGO instead, even WE BOUGHT A ZOO.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 03:59 PM) HAHAHA!!! AJ's the second best base runner on the Sox in the last 20 years? Surely you jest. Do you work for Hawk or something? Jesus. Clearly not the fastest or anything resembling a basestealer. Smartest/best (based on getting the most out of his God-given abilities), definitely.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/statistics/...ers/cards/87051 Has mostly been a starter throughout his minor league career, 12 starts in High A last year...18 relief appearances. Throw him into the LHR mix with Santos Rodriguez, Hector Santiago, Hernandez, etc. Probably at least 1 1/2 seasons away, although we've been known to jump lefties quickly, like Radinsky/Logan/Corwin Malone.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 03:48 PM) And our team is led by Kenny Williams? Really? Losing is no fun. When there are 2 baseball teams in the same city and one is named the Cubs, the White Sox and their nonlegions of fans (compared to the Flubs) cannot afford to be irrelevant in May every year the next 10 years. 3-5 years, we've managed to pull that off 3 times in the last 30-40 years...a full decade, with Epstein lurking and the potential of a new stadium with Emmanuel as mayor, no way. JR and KW/Hahn have to get this one right.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 03:44 PM) Great post. I wait for some of the stat people to answer a nice, simple question like this. Our team would be so much better and maybe even some fans would attend the games this season if this winter we just ate the salaries of Dunn/Rios and make trades assuming they were gonzo. We trade a guy who actually tries like Quentin and ocasionally gets red-hot (Quentin is an exciting bat) and keep Mr. Nonchalant Rios (oh I look forward to him gliding after balls this season), when we could just release him. Anybody who buys a season ticket with Rios penciled in for 140 games has to be in need of counseling. Because then we're having to pay $40 million in one lump-sum payment, and there's at least 50/50 odds we'll get a return to respectability out of one or both those guys, and especially Peavy in 2012. Let's say you buy 100 shares of a stock at $80 and the value's all the way down to $20-30. The White Sox believe (and most fans here as well) that those contracts are more likely to return to the $55-75 price range than continuing to decline to $10-15. If Dunn comes anywhere close to as historically as bad a season as 2011, he might walk away...Rios, not so much. At any rate, the only way to get those contracts off the book is packaging them to the mega-rich teams that could absorb that type of hit and would consider it a win if they could bring in Floyd/Crain/Thornton/Ramirez/Danks (2013) as well. The Yankees and Red Sox have shown no willingness to spend that kind of money this offseason. The Rangers and Angels are overextended. That leaves very few teams, with the current state of the Mets and Dodgers.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 03:35 PM) Why? The plan is obviously to play as many aging slowfooted veterans as we can to go with nobodies on the mound so we can be out of the race in early June. White Sox baseball slogan: Rebuilding is so much fun or Relevant? Who Needs Relevance? Seriously, did you watch Frasor pitch last season? You think that's irreplaceable? Clearly, he's lost more than notch or two off his stuff from overuse the last 5 years. Also find it amusing when AA drafts those guys and overslots, he's a baseball version of Houdini or Billy Beane...but when the White Sox trade for them, they're in firesale or crisis mode. If we actually were in that position, we would have traded Danks already. The only two players we're likely to trade between now and April (and that could severely harm our chances of being competitive) are the same ones we've all been talking about, Matt Thornton and Gavin Floyd, and Crain, too. Mark Teahen and his wife made the White Sox relevant? Winning games and divisions is what makes us relevant...some of that in 2012 would go a long way towards what's currently ailing the organization and its fans. By the way, Quentin was a slow-footed veteran (of 29). The only slow-footed guy we really should have kept was Jim Thome two seasons ago. Dye, also gone. But we still have Konerko, Dunn and AJ to pacify Greg's desire for Molina-esque speed out of the box...and AJ's really the best baserunner on the team, and the 2nd best I've seen in the last 20 years on the Sox, after Jose Valentin.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 02:15 PM) You sure are confident that the majority of the Sox farm system will pan out. Considering the Sox track record of producing adequate major league contributors via the farm, I think you should lessen your expectations a bit. Just have much more confidence when we target/acquire other teams' players than drafting/projecting/developing our own guys. That area of the scouting department always seems to do a much better job, for whatever reason.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 02:11 PM) Matt Thornton gave us three years as arguably the best left-handed reliever in baseball. That ain't an easy role to fill. And so was Damaso Marte, KW's done it twice in under-the-radar deals. I would highly doubt Hernandez ever becomes THAT good, but anything's possible if you give Cooper talented guys to work with. We've seen too many examples of it to list, and a few noted failures along the way, too.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 02:10 PM) Trayce Thompson has all the ability in the world to be a A prospect. Most of these are professional baseball players because they have that potential. That's the point, if you have 10 pitchers like Molina and Zach Stewart who can all potentially be 2-3-4 starters in the big leagues, clearly you're much better off with at least 1-2 of them eventually succeeding in having that impact. Now we have 3 with Castro. You might stretch it and include 4 with Hector Santiago. Axelrod still looks like a back-end guy. In our entire system, the only position players with the raw talent to have an impact are Thompson, Walker and Mitchell, and those are looking like 10-15% odds at best right now. With 10 of them in the system, another couple will actually make it, and hopefully at least one becomes an All-Star caliber player.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 02:06 PM) Bingo. The only impact (arguable) prospect Kenny has acquired thus far is Nestor Molina. Disagree. One of the two guys from the Padres, and possibly Marinez from the Marlins, will stick with big league team before July 31st. We just opened up another spot in the pen with the Frasor move. As far as defining impact, Hernandez could evolve into the Matt Thornton role quite easily. That LH reliever slot in the 7th-8th inning is plenty impactful, IMO. Get the general point...let's just see how the next 24 months play out and then we can argue about all of these guys, including Zach Stewart.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 02:04 PM) We've loaded up on C/C+ prospects. That really can't move a system that much, really at all. The kid we got from the Padres has all the ability in the world to be a B+ or better, just like Molina. You start the Futures Game, that means everyone is baseball is aware of your existence.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 02:03 PM) It serves no good purpose to let anyone know what the plan is. Hey, isn't that what Mao and Stalin said...?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 02:00 PM) The all-mighty AA gave him third round money. He has to be good. Knew that one was coming, lol. Where's j4l with his take today, watching NFL or sleeping off the weekend still? I sincerely hope we can't still be the worst MLB farm system in the game at this point. Let's hope we can progress to 25th-27th.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:56 PM) Then why didn't the Sox draft him in the 3rd or 4th round? Because KW didn't have any more kids available (at least with the same family name)....? Sorry, bad joke. Poor KW

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:46 PM) You are really stretching that comparison. Apparently Danks wasn't valued as much as we must have thought either and he got $13M a year to stay. I think what I am most upset about is the complete lack of firm and understandeable direction and the willingness to overlook past fiascos made by our GM. And only $8 million this year. It's not until the future forward years the numbers really pick up, when his limited NTC kicks in correspondingly. We're still in "win now/trade in 2013" mode with Danks, in all likelihood. There's flexibility to go either way depending on 2012 results and attendance figures.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:51 PM) Drop the draft pick rankings stuff. Both were guys who went way over slots in the later rounds. Jaye was paid like a third rounder. You would have expected one of the friendly "White Sox Family" draft picks to have made an impact by now, based on their draft positions and bonuses, haha. We've had some comical ones with the kids of KW, Ozzie, Shaffer, someone's daughter, I forget who it was?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:48 PM) We're at about $97 million in commitments, then another $6 million or so in league-minimum guys to fill out the roster, then there's a $4 million buyout for Peavy at the end of the year. So we're to that mythical $20 million cut that many insiders projected, based on disappointing box office returns. And you have the mystery numbers for Jake Peavy coming back in 2010/11 in the form of insurance subsidies/write-offs. And we still have Crain, Ohman, Thornton, Floyd and possibly AJ that could all go in the next 3-4 months...and Konerko if they go off the deep end. Peavy getting traded would mean he's nearly in 2007 form, and that puts us right back in the playoff hunt, but saving that $4 million buyout would be a nice bonus that could be invested elsewhere.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:42 PM) If you would have read what I posted, I'm not mad at this particular trade, but some are going to make these "prospects" out to be far more than they really are. For Quentin, I'm not upset they traded him, it was very obvious it would happen. I think the return is like this return. Nothing. I believe he should be worth a little more than that. Both of the guys from the Padres could impact our team as early as ST, particularly Hernandez. And the other one was 2-3 in the Jays' system the previous year, so it's not like the guy is chopped liver...all things considered, the return for Quentin was much better, and the arguments were probably about equivalent for dumping both of them without any return by not offering arbitration. If you could get the same type of return for Will Ohman, wouldn't you do it? Now, if we traded Crain and Thornton and received nothing back, it would be a shocker. Still, Matty's lost a lot of shine from his star because of 2011, his age, concerns about a fall-off by a tick or two in his stuff...his quasi-closer salary, etc. However, with no FA lefties better than the likes of Darren Oliver and Arthur Rhodes, KW controls a very valuable market if he chooses to sell off Matt to the highest bidder out there, like the Yankees (potentially).

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:41 PM) The one good thing about this kind of deal, targeting guys who have issues or are really low in an organization, is that just as the Sox can't project them very well...neither can the team giving the players up. Sometimes, that's how you get a real steal: you target a guy who is low enough that even the team which currently holds him doesn't know what they have. See Liriano, Francisco for an example...Nathan and Bonser were a lot more polished at the time and seemed the primary targets.

A five way deal could get us a Pujols or Hanley Ramirez for sure. It always works for annoying callers during the post-game show. Or let's just package a random 10-12 of these guys with Dunn/Rios and some team out there would be foolish not to take TEN players back, right?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 11:40 AM) The last 3 big guys to sign in this sort of pattern out of Cuba (Alexei, Viciedo, Chapman) signed contracts that were basically "rookie" contracts, where the team commits x number of dollars, but then has control of that player until they would normally become free agents. So, the team would get 6-7 years of control of the player once he gets to the big leagues. A team could always write the deal to allow them to become a FA earlier, but the recent trend has been against that. That's what the Yankees did with Contreras's original deal; the team was required to cut him loose after the deal ended regardless of accumulated service time. That has not been the case with these last guys. So, if a team signed him, kept him in the minors for 1.5 years, called him up mid-2013, they'd have him under control until ~2019 assuming they offered him arbitration every year. Are his salary raises in years 4-6 based on his contract numbers preceding it (not being able to cut more than 15%, etc.) or based on a statistical formula for what guys all around baseball SHOULD be making in those years, such as Danks/Quentin/Crede/Jenks, etc., when they were with the Sox and going back and forth with just one year deals and no long-term extensions? What would/could we predict Viciedo's 2014 salary at? It can't be based on the increase from his small (relatively) salary next year...?

We also gave up Jose Valentin, Magglio Ordonez and Carlos Lee for essentially nothing as well. Pods and Vizcaino...essentially, it's more important what they do with all the money they are saving BY NOT PAYING Quentin, Buehrle, Frasor, Teahen, Edwin Jackson, Santos, Vizquel, Pena, Castro, and potentially Thornton/Ohman, Crain, AJ, and Floyd. Cespedes, whoever it is, this year or next.