caulfield12

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 25, 2010 -> 10:01 PM) They had depth in their organization to replace Smoak and not worry too much about the short term/future implications that come with that trade. The Sox dont have much depth at all behind Beckham. If Mitchell and Thompson were healthy and producing at their expected ability levels, this conversation wouldn't exist. If Jake Peavy was still healthy... Even if Joe Borchard defied the logic of Sox first round busts and became the franchise player. Actually, we had enough depth in the middle infield that we could waive Jason Nix. Let's face it, almost EVERYTHING that could go wrong with our minor league system has happened, and we're still standing. Jordan Danks and Flowers have lost a lot of their shine (especially Jordan Danks), we've lost our two players with perhaps the most future potential as impact players, we've lost our most expensive starting pitcher and "ace" in Peavy, and yet we're still in first place. Viciedo and Hudson have demonstrated their potential and youth at the same time, which is the problem with prospects, they're not finished products. Heck, even Beckham, with the college pedigree in the SEC, numerous awards, accolades and honors, he still fell victim to the dreaded Sophomore Slump. I think we also have to give a lot of credit to KW for the acquisitions of Santos, JJ Putz, Omar Vizquel and Andruw Jones (for the first six weeks, but he's still valuable as the 25th man/PR/PH). The only mistake, and it's the biggest and most obvious one, was staying with Jones and Kotsay for so long. But we were winning games with them (the same argument for leaving Brian Anderson in the line-up in 2006)...so Ozzie didn't want to change things up. Fine, understandable. We're now 4-6 after the All-Star break and we have to look at getting better again (although we should be 6-4 and up 3 games on the Twins STILL). They really have a quandary to decide if Mark Teahen taking at-bats from Kotsay is enough of an upgrade to justify not making a move that will cost them in the future...versus someone like LaRoche or Luke Scott, etc.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 25, 2010 -> 08:26 PM) Yes, we are in that position. Thanks to a ridiculous 31-game stretch. Whatever KW does, will be lacking in either the pitching or hitting department. My beef is why wait until the deadline to upgrade the offense when it was crystal clear it needed upgrading in March and there were legitimate, realistic options out there? Now you can't foresee injuries. And like I said, I don't blame KW or Ozzie at all for what happened with Peavy. But look at our dilemma now. Just like I have no say so in whether Ozzie or KW get canned, I have no say so in who their replacements would be. Honestly? I have no idea off the top of my head. I know I'd like a manager that realized it's 2010 and managed like it. I'd like a GM that realizes unless you're the Yankees, the farm does matter. Specific names? Not my job. Total copout there. The talent has been there, we've been horrible at identifying it (and being cheap as f*** hasn't helped). No excuse. When you have to go back to the late 90's to find a legitimate player we signed from Latin America there is something wrong. See above. Yes, there has been a long lag time between Ordonez/Carlos Lee in the Latin American market. However, we went out and signed Viciedo to the biggest bonus ever, yes? International free agent, and we unearthed a gem in Alexei Ramirez, also from what is technically Latin America. We also spent more money on Borchard at the time ($5.3 milllion?) than any team in baseball history on a first round draft pick in that position of the draft...of course, he turned out to be a bust, certainly not the one to lead the franchise that was expected. If Joe Borchard had become another version of Dunn that quite a few expected, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Then you also have to consider Takatsu and Iguchi, who were in their own ways both key components in the 2005 WS title. The fact of the matter is that we really shouldn't be winning over the Twins with Peavy out, Garcia on his last legs and Hudson unable to pitch with any degree of command and control in the strike zone. I don't think acquiring Haren would have been the right move, simply because the cost would have been Hudson/Flowers/Viciedo again...and, once again, there would have been ZERO wiggle room for 2011 with Haren's contract added onto the payroll. It has been constantly pointed out that we can't have over 50% of our payroll invested in 4 starters if we want to field any type of offense. As it is, we'll have a very very difficult time bringing back Konerko and AJ, yes? The other thing you have to take into consideration is that so many of our young players have gotten hurt, Mitchell, in particular, but also Morel, Phegley, Trayce Thompson, Holmberg has been hurt as well. If you had a healthy Mitchell (looking like Carl Crawford-Lite) and Trayce Thompson putting up a huge season in low A and continuing to make progress as a baseball player, then you'd have the package to go out and get almost anyone, IF IF IF Peavy hadn't gotten injured. Remember, the 2008 team survived the losses of Crede (Uribe at 3B), Contreras, Linebrink and Quentin for the final weeks...yes, we got wiped out by the Rays, but at least we got there, and we had the lead in all of those games but one, it's not like we were the Cubs over their last two postseasons. None of the three teams fighting in the AL Central have a true shutdown ace in their rotation, Justin Verlander is the closest. After that, you'd probably have a tie between Liriano and Danks with baseball scouts (advantage to the Sox) and Gavin Floyd would have to factor in there with Pavano, but Gavin still hasn't put together one WHOLE completely dominant season. He seems/feels/looks like an ace, but you can never be quite 100% sure about him. With all that said, I think Ozzie and KW have done a very good job under the circumstances keeping this team in contention. Most of us thought the season was over on June 9th, but we've had an amazing run and STILL are in first place, as of this moment. If we want to fire Guillen, then the Red Sox, Angels, Phillies and Twins should also fire their managers and GM's for underperforming, yes?

QUOTE (AWhiteSoxinNJ @ Jul 25, 2010 -> 02:54 PM) If these last 2 games don't scream "We need to trade for a starting pitcher" then I dunno what does. We don't need another bat, get some arms. Do you ever post in the game threads when the Sox are winning? Let me guess, you want them to trade for Haren or Oswalt?

I guess all we can do is read it as Beckham's inexperience. The ball had a ton of overspin on it, and it got on him faster than he was ready...causing him to take the wrong angle and misread the play. Still don't understand why he didn't leave his feet though, and try to block it and prevent 2 runs from scoring.

Beckham taking a questionable route to that groundball and not leaving his feet on hit really hurt us that inning. The A's announcers were pretty shocked he didn't at least stop it...if not make the play and keep it 1-0. Well, we're going to have to withstand a run from Minnesota, they now get the Royals, Greinke versus Liriano to start the series.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 25, 2010 -> 10:33 AM) also went on the DL today with a calf injury(big surprise) Quietly, Will Ryan, Jeff Larish, Sizemore, Kelly, Raburn (interestingly hitting 3rd today), Austin Jackson, Brennan Boesch, Scherzer, Ryan Perry and Porcello make this one of the younger teams in the majors. Quite an influx of young talent. Just a year or so ago, they were running Josh Anderson and Clete Thomas out there in the OF as well. Still, all the atrocious contracts and the 2009 fadeout have diminished the success enjoyed since the 06 World Series appearance. But after building the Marlins and playing important roles with the White Sox and Expos, I would never agree with comparing Dombrowski with Dayton Moore or even Mark Shapiro. He gave up Jairr Jurgens, but that package for Cabrera (based mostly on Maybin and Miller) turned out to be quite a steal...and the flipping of Matt Joyce for Edwin Jackson for Scherzer, even flipping Granderson for Austin Jackson has turned out to be a steal and created payroll flexibility.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 25, 2010 -> 11:20 AM) One of those guys don't belong in that sentence. If he didn't get hurt, he'd easily be the MVP favorite right now. Yes, I guess I was already anticipating a longer DL stay than initially expected, based on the Twins' response and these similar types of situations in the recent past with baseball players. Morneau was clearly one of the Top 5 MVP candidates had a vote been taken a month ago. Unfortunately (or fortunately for the Sox, I guess), he's getting a reputation, along with Mauer, for being somewhat injury-prone and "ouchy." Not quite like Carlos Quentin, however, in that regard.

QUOTE (Benchwarmerjim @ Jul 25, 2010 -> 08:03 AM) that is pretty good analysis of the Twins. The only thing you left out is the Delmon Young (!) is pretty much carried the team since Morneau went down The irony is that Garza is the type of pitcher they need for success in the playoffs...but they wouldn't be able to reach the playoffs without Delmon. Still, for all of Young's offensive prowess, the Twins' defense has fallen off greatly with Kubel and Young playing in the OF together and Cuddyer playing either 3B or 1B. Are you in the Valencia camp or not? Seems like Gardenhire won't play him regularly, just like Guillen consistently playing Kotsay over Viciedo. So I guess Mark Kostay=Lil Nick Punto for White Sox fans this season. FWIW, the Tribune baseball writer gave the Twins the highest probability (2-1 odds) of getting back to their division lead, compared to the Red Sox, Phillies and Angels, three other disappointing teams.

Several scouts, notably from the Tigers and Phillies, have been in attendance at Sheets' recent outings. Though Sheets, who missed all of 2009 following elbow surgery, has not recaptured his one-time ace stuff from his Milwaukee days, he's been intriguing enough to allow contenders to imagine him helping them. One scout who watched Sheets warm up in the bullpen before Monday's start said Sheets threw very few warm-up pitches. And scouts who have watched him recently say he has been very reluctant to throw his breaking pitches in games. Over 20 starts in 2010, Sheets is 4-9 with a 4.53 ERA. He's worked 119 1/3 innings in 2010 and last started on Monday evening against Boston, going 6 2/3 innings and allowing the Red Sox two runs and seven hits, striking out two and walking two. "He had no velocity but he adds and subtracts," one scout who was in attendance to see Sheets on Monday told CBSSports.com's Danny Knobler. "He threw only five pitches over 90 [m.p.h]. He was pitching at 86-88. "He still competes, though. You know what he is? Right now, he's Freddy Garcia." And, sadly, right now, he's not even that. www.cbssportsline.com

Raburn and Clete Thomas put up some very decent numbers last year in their outfield. Same thing with Boesch, although he's been almost amazing, this year. Maybe they can't go to the well one more time and expect an 875 OPS, but I think a range of at least 775-825 OPS from their farm system would be expected. And yes, I know Raburn and Avila have been huge disappointments this year coming off 2009.

Including Mitchell, even if he could be traded, would be pretty short-sighted. Unless we felt he was never going to come back 100%, then that's the kind of move a GM who wants to do business with other teams might want to think twice about...it's a violation of the buy low/sell high maxim, selling him at perhaps his lowest possible value. And even though Sirotka/Wells happened almost 10 years ago now, some baseball personnel have long memories. Thankfully, KW has a better reputation now for bargaining in good faith, compared to his early years on the job.

Well, with Minnesota seemingly jumping up as the favorite to challenge the Sox with Ordonez and Inge down, it seemingly will come down to pitching (as always): Garcia/Hudson versus whatever they can get from Duensing, Slowey, Blackburn and Baker. For the moment, you don't see them trading for Oswalt (although I wouldn't be shocked, either) or Haren, I think they're pretty confident about Duensing after 2009 down the stretch. For whatever reason, they've gotten through to Pavano. From one of biggest jokes and worst contracts in baseball to probably their co-#1 starter along with Liriano. As much as their fanbase has been on SLOW-BAKE-BURN this season (along with Rick Anderson and GM Smith for their contracts), Pavano and Liriano have certainly been somewhat unexpected success stories which have somewhat mitigated the drop off from Kubel, Cuddyer, Morneau and Mauer. Of course, having Nathan go down early didn't help matters either, they still have some shakiness in their middle relief corps.

Every time you intentionally bring in the "wing man" who is a friend to use her in a manipulative way, it never works. One can only be so "strategic" in this...if it happens naturally, that's the only time it is really effective, that girls will notice each other and recognize instinctually that another is circling "their" territory and they have to decide whether the fight or flight response is necessary. As noted, some girls want their guy to stay single, even though they don't really want to date him...it's strange, like that movie My Best Friend's Wedding, even where the guy has a fiance, he still doesn't want another man to be with his friend, even if nothing has ever happened between them romantically.

Well, one thing's for sure, the team is definitely not going to be bankrupt because of the owner. It's not a situation like the D-Backs or Rangers, and interestingly, and both of those teams contended quite nicely when they were supposedly going through financial problems (although you can see the effects/fallout out in Phoenix now). The Scherzer and Austin Jackson trades have worked out better than expected for the Tigers, and I have a hard time seeing the Tigers being dismantled when we thought the same thing going into this year and they were able to add Valverde and Damon. If they can get Galarraga and Porcello straightened out 100%, they'll be a competitive team, for sure. Like seemingly every team, they have a hole at the back end of their rotation...but so do the White Sox, possibly.

Inge ($6.6 million), Laird, Damon ($8 million), Bonderman ($12.5 million), Willis ($12 million) and Robertson ($10 million)...not sure exactly how much they ate on those last two deals, probably about 75-80%. Plus the money from Magglio Ordonez now saved, $15 million for 2011 option. I'm guessing they will try to pay lip service to bringing back Ordonez and Inge on smaller deals, and PERHAPS Bonderman as well, but Jeremy's one of those cases where they might be better off investing the big money he's sure to get from someone (glad Hawk isn't our GM anymore) and going in a different direction. I think you'd have to consider DET, coming into the offseason, as the team best positioned to make a run in 2011...especially with Peavy's status unknown.

Today was the first day for the Seattle Mariners to respond to the report that Ken Griffey was asleep in the clubhouse during a pinch-hit opportunity and Mike Sweeney(notes) didn't have any trouble standing up for his elder teammate. The devout Christian who once bullrushed Jeff Weaver(notes) says he challenged the Safeco Field deep throats to stand up and fight him, but no one took him up on the offer. Pity, too, because Mike Sweeney's a man! He's 40!

http://www.seattlepi.com/baseball/2010ap_b...gout_fight.html I guess KW and Sox fans should be thankful we didn't trade for/sign either Figgins or Bradley... There's another article in the Seattle Times, I thought this was the most interesting insight... The Mariners are 2-7 since the All-Star break and have committed numerous baserunning, situational hitting and fielding blunders. But through it all, the players committing the gaffes have been allowed to remain in games and stay in the starting lineup. Wakamatsu has been saying since before the break that his players would be held accountable for mistakes. This time, he made good on that pledge. "I think you're talking about baserunning plays, and not all of those are cut and dried," Wakamatsu said of the prior gaffes that went unpunished. "I thought this was cut and dried." There has been an underlying tension brewing between Wakamatsu and some of his players since the hasty retirement and departure of Ken Griffey Jr. in early June. The pair did not speak for roughly two weeks before Griffey leaving, and several players believe Wakamatsu forced him into retirement — a charge the manager vehemently denies. The week following the retirement, Figgins reacted angrily and criticized Wakamatsu's decision to bump him from No. 2 back to No. 9 in the batting order during a series in Texas. The Mariners were embarrassed on the field during that series, and several veterans — including the since-traded Cliff Lee — held a players-only meeting in San Diego afterward to clear the air about several topics, including putting the Griffey episode behind them. One of the reasons Branyan was acquired was for additional leadership at a time the team knew Lee was soon to be traded. "It's something where we need to come together and pull through this," Branyan said, "as opposed to pointing fingers and tearing the team apart."

It's going to be interesting to see how long they wait for Kotsay to spring back to life. When you looked at the match-up before this game and the fact that the A's have been playing playing pretty well, not to mention Buerhle's decade-long history of struggles in Oakland, it really seemed set up for a loss...or at the very least, another Jenks appearance. It wasn't a very exciting game, but one thing Ozzie did do well was get the runners moving to stay out of a double play situation early with Konerko at bat (could have been a triple play) and also running Jones and Lillibridge late, setting up the clinching insurance runs. 26th complete game of his career, has done his customary blue-collar work of battling to get his ERA back to 4 from the mid 5's range.

From watching Torii Hunter most of his career and even in the minors, I would definitely pick him over Rowand. Now maybe too many think of Hunter as the slowed-down, post Astroturf lingering wear and tear player with the Angels, but that guy was just a game-changing defender. He also had the ability to go over the fence at will and change the composition of numerous games with his athletic ability. Another area where Aaron wasn't as solid was throwing the ball. He had an above-average arm, but he wasn't very effectively in throwing out runners either, I can recall numerous balls that he threw right into the ground, and he had a knack for hitting the mound over and over again. Those Gold Gloves he (Hunter) won were all legit until maybe the last year or so, when he won it on reputation alone. In this situation, it's a lot like Chavez versus Crede, where Chavez was great for the first 2-3-4 years of his career and lived off his early accolades, to the point where Crede never officially dethroned him. I know, I know....someone will bring up Derek Jeter winning, that inevitably happens in any discussion of this topic. Maybe Aaron is a little bit of a victim (to me) of the overhyping, the same thing happened with Brian Anderson...I got so sick of hearing how good they were or how underrated that they were...that they became overrated to me, and while Rowand had one great offensive season with the Sox where he piled up all those doubles (I think it was 04) he was never quite as good as his offensive reputation either (which is why he's one of the worst 10 contracts in baseball, along with Carlos Lee, despite playing in the NL).

Sheets is scheduled to start on Sunday against the White Sox but probably won't go. There's something definitely wrong with him physically...his last start against the Red Sox, he was consistently in the mid 80's with his fastball. Most likely, or at least 50/50, they'll hold back Sheets and go with Bret Anderson instead of Sheets. I think it's down to Haren and Oswalt in terms of impact starters.

Pretty amazing this would be Buehrle's first career victory in Oakland. Definitely has been a house of horrors for him, 0-6 lifetime at the Coliseum and 3-12 overall against the A's. Glad, for now, there's no need for the bullpen in this game. Have they announced whether they will use Sheets or Anderson on Sunday?

Scott's really hot right now. They already have Wieters, you can push them to take Flowers but it's back to the same thing, giving up Viciedo for Luke Scott. Pretty obviously, it won't be Danks. And if you're the Orioles, you're probably not going to take a package of players like Morel and Short (just throwing out names) over someone much closert to big league readiness.

Without giving up Beckham, it's going to have to be Gavin Floyd AND Santos AND Viciedo/Flowers. You can't cripple the starting pitching staff by including Floyd, Danks or Hudson in a trade. We can shed Torres, of course, but that's not going to be enough to come close to getting Fielder or Dunn.

And I think everyone on this board would agree we would simply LOVE to see Bobby Jenks pitch like he's CAPABLE of pitching. Because without him, that creates yet another issue on this team that already has to deal with the loss of Peavy, Carlos Quentin's nagging injuries, the lack of production from Kotsay/Jones at DH, etc. I would guess that MOST Sox fans don't believe he will be effective in any other role than closer...some think he might pout or pull a Swisher, who knows...the only thing we can say with certainty is that it would be better if we could leave Putz and Thornton in their current roles. Otherwise, you have to make someone do something they're not comfortable with, and we saw how that failed before when Dotel in particular was pushed back into more critical situations when Linebrink went down in 2008. I don't know how we are in first place, to tell the truth. Just that great run of starting pitching, 32 quality starts in 38 tries. Ozzie has done quite a commendable job keeping this team together, and I was one of quite a few (I won't say many) who wanted him gone and who felt he had lost this team late in 2009 and then early in 2010. Ozzie has always proven to be resilient, and never a quitter, at his best when everyone is betting against him and waiting for his downfall. Just like in late 2008 when we had lost Crede, Linebrink, Quentin and Contreras, we've had to improvise and the odds still favor the Twins and perhaps even the Tigers unless KW makes a season-changing move that will affect this franchise for the next half decade. Personally, I wouldn't want to make that decision, because our starting pitching, bullpen and defense are good enough to compete with the Rays, Rangers and Yankees in the playoffs. Still, I'd rather go with what we have and let the chips falls where they may than knock ourselves out of contention for 2011-12-13 by trading away Hudson, Viciedo and Flowers. We still have no idea how/when Peavy will recover, it's too risky to trade Hudson, despite the glowing medical reports, we're dealing with a unique injury for a pitcher, we should be careful not to thin out our pitching depth.

Greg, I really don't "get" why you enjoy defending him so much...? Just to be against the crowd or counter-intuitive? You were here (I'm guessing) when Takatsu was around, Koch, Foulke, Howry, etc. Some of them, like Keith, basically removed themselves from the closer's role...others lost it because their stuff either fell off, the league figured them out or they weren't fooling anyone anymore (Koch and Shingo). Nobody HATES Bobby Jenks. I don't think I've honestly felt that towards any member of the White Sox. We can dislike them as players, feel they're being utilized incorrectly by Ozzie or overexposed, but the fact of the matter is that Jenks is making millions of dollars, he should be held accountable for his physical conditioning if it starts to affect his ability to pitch well. I'll give you an example, Jenks can't field his position (see numerous bunt attempts) or hold runners on. When he was very good, that didn't matter, he had the stuff to pitch around it, but he no longer has that dominating arsenal, and/or he refuses to use it due to pain or injury concerns. You don't think that getting in much better shape would allow him to "help himself" out on the mound, especially in terms of fielding? Isn't he being disrespectful to his teammates by caring more about his goatee than he does about holding runners on? We just have to face facts. He's been very lucky so far this season, for the most part. Now in no way, shape or form are Thornton, Putz or Santos going to be lock-down closers either, but they at least deserve the opportunity to try, if for no other reason than if the team and every Sox fan expects a blown save or 2-3 runners to reach every time Jenks goes out there, it's going to have a snowball effect on the rest of the season.....even if we had Prince Fielder, a bullpen with Jenks as closer only holding 60-75% of the the leads (and most of them have been 2 or 3 runs, I think) is simply not going to work. This team will be destroyed psychologically if we continue to blow at least TWO games that are already won per week. It can't go on. Yes, everyday and every game in baseball is a new chance, a new opportunity to prove yourself, but if you had to bet your house and life savings right now, would you bet that Jenks would have a sub 3.00 ERA going forward or would you bet with the house money that he would be at 5+ going forward? The last time he recovered, but at that point, he wasn't pitching for a first place team with every loss magnified.