caulfield12

It's not a bad deal at all...not for one season. You'd like to have gotten it down to $7-8-8.5 million, but I think with the Werth signing and the fact that they really weren't all that interested in LaRoche, it makes sense and doesn't have the backside risk of the dopey long-term deals they gave out like free crack samples.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 01:14 AM) I would like to know where people get this idea that Dye can actually play 1st base and be passable. This is a guy who sat out all last year, and has been an OF. Taking an older player, moving him to a new position and paying him more money than other teams were willing to pay him last offseason sounds like a recipe for disaster. I would rather pay for a proven quantity than to roll the dice. #1, because of his size, he's not fast, but he's definitely quicker than Konerko. I think he played basketball out in California, in high school or junior college. He has a bit more leaping ability, although that's not saying much. #2, he wouldn't cost us any draft picks AND we'd get the 2 picks from Konerko (of course, with the D-Backs it would be protected, so 2nd round) #3, we'd be in on him for only a one year deal, so we'd have flexibility going forward we didn't with the likes of Teahen, Linebrink, Pierre, Buehrle coming off the books or being traded, the certainty that we'll know where we are with both Peavy and Sale (well, hopefully this time next year their futures will both be clearly defined)...in other words, it doesn't force our hand with Viciedo seemingly unable to play 3B, although LF/RF are still possibilities for 2010, surely he'll get a Josh Fields-like shot at one of them just to see how good he could do out there, which can't seemingly be worse than Dye or Quentin the last 2 seasons I don't know, I'd rather sign Dye for just one year and work all off-season on transitioning him to 1B (let's say it's a contract for $5 million) and spending that other $10 million on relievers, spreading it among 2-3 veteran guys and knowing/predicting one will go bust. I'm thinking of pitchers here like Guerrier or Crain, maybe a notch below what Crain will get, because I'm expecting coming off his 2010 season that he'll get at least $4.5-5.5 million from some team...I would be shocked if he signs for under $4. Guerrier should come in at that $3.0-4.0 range....I want no part of paying the type of money we gave to Linebrink and Dotel...give me 3 guys at $3.333 instead of two at $5 million per.

What's the highest you go on Derek Lee for one season? $8 million? $6-6.5 + attainable incentives? Mutual option for year 2 at $10 million and/or buyout?

I also wouldn't be opposed to giving Jermaine Dye $3.5-5.5 million to play 1B for one season. It would carry some risk with it though, but not as much as bringing in Pena or LaRoche for a lot more money/years (2-3) and possibly forcing Viciedo's departure. If they can get DLee at $6-8 million though, go ahead and do it. I'd almost think about bring Fielder into play, but that would entirely gut our system. KW might be willing to part with Viciedo and Floyd, but no way he will let Sale or Beckham be part of that deal. And trading Floyd blows another hole in our rotation. We can't do that until we know for sure Peavy can pitch next year, and effectively.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 05:28 PM) Maybe it's my old age but I cannot even recall our previous first baseman before Paulie took over. Was it Frank or was there someone in between? Jeff Liefer? Mario Valdez?

I am a little bit surprised that Konerko's ego got in the way of this, with Dunn's contract numbers. So if Paulie was on the Nationals, he would want 1/2 of Jayson Werth's contract numbers to come back? You kind of had a feeling when Thome left that Konerko might not be long for this organization....but I also have the feeling that KW was setting this up as a PR situation for the club not to look bad and he never really had a second thought about giving him $15 million per season. Well, if you go back to pre 2005, when we could split contracts up and bring in smaller pieces...2-3 veteran players instead of 1 star like Lee/Ordonez, that seemed to work well last time. Let's hope KW can do as well as he did with Putz, Vizquel, Andruw Jones and even Castro last year.

Huh? Konerko's staying or going? Quite contradictory updates in the last half hour. Wonder if Dunn and AJ will ask for their money back, lol? I guess I'm relieved we didn't overpay for Konerko in years or average salary, but it still sucks, especially if he comes back like every former member of the White Sox to victimize us again in head-to-head. So let's just hope Konerko doesn't end up at 1B with the Twins....that Thome shot against Thornton was agony enough.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 04:32 PM) What about letting him be a player/coach in his 3rd year if his production declines sharply? *runs for cover* Konerko seems a lot like Ventura or Buehrle. He's set for life with cash, he'll want to spend time with his family (at least 5-7 years) before he even thinks about coaching or a significant role with the organization.

I think it was before 2006...we had 12, yes 12, LHR prospects coming into ST and none of them panned out. The only one who actually made a career of it was Javier Lopez, who ended up getting traded to the Red Sox in June of that year for David Riske Business (which was amusing since Riske gave up the tide-changing Crede homer if memory serves).

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 04:20 PM) And that KW would then overpay in a trade of Quentin for some hard throwing, not as effective as should be reliever. Koch is the only time this has happened in recent memory. I can't think of a time where we lost a position player who was of Quentin's ilk for a reliever, can you? I guess if you want to throw out B. Allen for Pena in the discussion, but the jury's still far from out on Allen.

Let's say that we could get Derek Lee for $6-8 million (and not have to commit to more than one season)... I would guess the probability is at least 30-60% that DLee has a better season than Konerko in 2010...right? So I guess the question of 1) having the payroll flexibility going forward in 2012/13, when Buehrle's coming off the books theoretically and we can get back two draft picks as well...2) and the fact that we could spend that $4.5-6.5 million on one or two relievers who kick up the probability of having a more solid bullpen in 2011, that mitigates some of my excitement about bringing back Paulie. It's also like you wish he would have faded like Thome in 2009 so the decision wouldn't be so murky...because I don't think anybody would be willing to bet their 401K he would ever have another season in 2011-12-13 approaching the overall numbers and consistency he displayed this past season. Of course, if it's a matter of having Konerko or Derek Lee (with no spending of the differential on the bullpen because Paulie becomes an exception for JR), then you have to side with Paulie, but guaranteeing 3 years is quite scary.

The Orioles are a prime example of this. They spent a ton of money on D. Baez, Chad Bradford and a lefty who had a "one hit" wonder of a season with the Tigers (the name is escaping me) and it bought them nothing except for a big headache. KW saw VERY mixed results with spending money on Dotel, Linebrink and MacDougal. Dotel and Linebrink were a very big part of the 2008 team winning the division (barely), but Linebrink's contract became the worst on the team (arguably) until Teahen last year. Of course, the 2006-2007 modus operandi of throwing a bunch of talented arms at the problem with no idea how to pitch didn't work so well either...in particular, pitchers like Aardsma (great for half a season before imploding), Sisco and Masset had their ups and downs with the Sox. But, if you go back ten plus years, you can find few closers we've spent a lot of money on. Roberto Hernandez Howry (White Flag trade) Foulke (White Flag trade) Koch (dumb, dumb, dumb) Marte (trade for Guerrier) Flash Gordon (undervalued FA) Shingo Takatsu (FA) Jenks (waiver claim) Thornton (for Borchard) Sale (draft pick) Santos (waiver claim/trade) If there's another Tom Gordon out there on the market, that's the type of pitcher KW will go after. Dotel doesn't have the stuff anymore to get it done, and he will still be much more expensive than he's worth. David Riske also comes to mind here, someone who can contribute at the back end of the bullpen and not kill you, probably a veteran on the downside of his career coming off a down season or injury. But someone not quite so desperate as Jeff Nelson or Jose Paniagua HOPEFULLY. It's hard to find another Politte or Cotts...and for them to jell at the same time, is even more difficult.

After last season's second half bullpen meltdown and the 2007 season, only having 3 relievers (I'm not counting Pena as "quality") and two of them being Sale and Santos, that's a bit scary. If those four guys ALL pitched to their abilities, then you're not quite so worried. But the last time that happened was 2005 and the first half of 2008. And that's making another big assumption you don't need Sale as a starter at some point. And projecting Infante into the bullpen when we're going "all in" might be asking for trouble, although it's better than spending money on Octavio Dotel or Kyle Farnsworth, etc. So still really torn on the Lee + bullpen help versus Konerko argument. OFC, would love for money NOT to be the deciding factor, but when has that ever been the case with teams outside of NY and usually Boston?

If you could subtract Buehrle or Peavy from the payroll, then Ichiro would actually fit nicely. Of course, the M's wouldn't take on either of those two contracts, but I'd think they would be interested in Viciedo/Mitchell/Sale (some combination of one of them) + Quentin + Floyd/Danks for Ichiro. As mentioned before, he basically pays for himself. Now he's lost a couple of steps and not the same player he was a decade ago when he was in his prime, but he's far from Ken Griffey, Jr., Manny Ramirez or Roberto Remember the Alomar.

Remember when Juan Gonzalez turned down an 8 year, $143 million extension with the Tigers because of the dimensions at Comerica? That was back when that kind of money actually meant something. One of the worst decisions in baseball history.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 10:23 AM) It sounds like the Diamondbacks are making a big late push for Paulie. The consensus is that it's far to late in the process to have an impact. The thing that would suck there is we would only get their 2nd round pick. Seems pretty unlikely, location makes sense but that team is far from competitive, despite how chaotic the NL West is...and the Giants aren't so bad, either.

The rate things are going, Cliff Lee will be the second $200 million contract. "You know what would be REALLY cool, $1 billion!" Just read that the Phillies' best possible offer was $60 milllion and 4 years, but the reported offer in the media was for "only" $48 million.

I think those numbers for Crawford at the back end of the career are even more risky than Werth's, because Crawford might end up a bit like Shannon Stewart at that time, versus Werth will still retain his power (theoretically). Both of them run the legit risk of being Soriano/Zito/Mark Hampton/Jaime Navarro/Cho Han Park/Darren Dreifort bad contracts.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 10:08 AM) What no Lillibridge?! If DeAza tears it up in ST, maybe. But since Lilly can play CF at least and has more positional versatility (and so does Omar at age 44-45), they seem to prefer those two. DeAza seems like he needs to be getting regular PT to be effective, imo. In ideal world, they would jettison Teahen's contract, but that's not possible and KW isn't going to eat another $3-6 million because they think Teahen can make himself valuable (to at least one other team) again.

I guess Gartrell played fairly well in the AFL or Winter Ball that he's now considered a legit option? The funny thing is that nobody ever would have thought one year ago that the contracts for Derek Jeter with the Yankees (3 years with 4th as option) would have been remotely similar...I still don't believe the White Sox are crazy enough to go 3 years and $51 million for Konerko, but it's crazy to think that those are the numbers that will come in and that 25% of the fanbase will actually be somewhat pleased with that signing. Maybe after Werth, those numbers make sense, but holy hell, they scare me going down the line 2-3 years. Part of it is the legitimate fear that Viciedo is a break-out star and goes on to become an All-Star and Paulie breaks down and there's nothing close to a replacement bat in the system with that impact.

Do you really think Morel is capable of hitting 20-30 homers per year? That's a bit of a stretch...to even his most ardent fans? Whether Morel can develop into a "clutch" performer like a Uribe or Crede at the plate, time will tell.

The White Sox got back $4-4.5 million for David Wells in 2001 and he pitched over 100 innings that year. I think the insurance payouts have changed greatly though....I wonder how much the insurance outlay would be for the contracts of Konerko, Dunn, Rios, Peavy and Buehrle on a yearly basis. Certainly not cheap.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 5, 2010 -> 08:45 PM) Another thing to consider about this signing is that it may behoove the Sox to trade for another pitcher ASAP. Fairly certain that Boras will get Jackson a big contract somewhere else after next year. On the other hand, you knew with all the movement in his early career, Jackson would like to stick around with one organization for 2-3 seasons if he feels really comfortable. Otherwise, he will end up being another Miguel Batista, albeit with much more talent and stuff...just bouncing around from place to place.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Dec 5, 2010 -> 07:41 PM) i think this is exactly what it is. If Nats offer was comparable to Bos, Philly, or another "winning" team he would have gone there, they probably had to blow him out of the water with a deal. It is also a bit reminiscent of the Royals throwing (for them) huge money at Gil Meche and Jose Guillen. You have to overpay if you're not a competitive team, in order to get some credibility. But my god, that contract is 4 years longer than almost any sane GM in the game would have given. This contract, in some ways, might end up having more repercussions than the Hicks/A-Rod deal. To put it in perspective, that's more money on Werth than the franchise has spent in 20 years COMBINED on free agents. My jaw dropped when I saw those numbers for a borderline All-Star player, but certainly no superstar. I actually think Ordonez's deal with the Tigers was much better than this one will end up.

QUOTE (knightni @ Dec 5, 2010 -> 09:50 AM) The Nats might need a power bat. I bet that their minors have a few guys that the Sox would want. Do you really think after the bad blood last year that Rizzo and KW are likely to make a trade now? Especially after we just signed Dunn? If I'm another team, I might just take my chances with Jermaine Dye on an incentive-laden deal versus giving up young talent for Quentin...maybe there are a lot of NL teams willing to put him in the OF, but I don't think so. A lot of the turf stadiums are gone, but the NL has always been a home for more athletic outfielders until recent years. Plus, they really have to get some indications on Zimmerman and Strasburg...and even to start putting together a Harper timetable for ETA, before they start making significant monetary commitments going forward.