caulfield12

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Apr 19, 2010 -> 05:35 PM) First of all, it isn't enough to be competitive through July/August. I do remember the old adage that KW put the best team on the field (I think Hawk said this every year we didn't win the division), but at some point, I think we need to be realists and realize maybe, in fact, we didn't have the better team and maybe that's why we didn't win. In 2003/2004 (when we finished nine games/four games out of first place, respectively) I also agreed with Hawk that KW put the best team out there, and it just didn't happen. But I have realized that was just a poor excuse. It really was KW not putting a better team out there, and really with the payroll we have had compared to our division rivals, there is no reason we shouldn't have won more than two divisions in KW's reign. We also said the "best prospects" thing in 2000. And where did those guys end up? Well, the two best probably are kicking our butt in the Twins bullpen, but clearly they didn't pan out quite like the experts thought. We don't have a top-50-type prospect, rather three or four 50- to 100- range prospects. I am just sick of the same excuses that KW has done all he can because clearly he hasn't built the best team. Garland and Buehrle (some were including him at #8-10 on the prospects list then, I THINK) legitimiately have turned out much better than Rauch/Guerrier. Guerrier was more 2001/2002. Fogg and Bradford made major contributions to rosters, Rocky Biddle as well. Wright/Ginter/Barcelo/Stumm, not so much.

Can I spit on Ozzie Guillen's LH/RH index cards (not laptop) and Twitter phone?

Wasn't Dave Brown the former QB of the NY Giants? Any connection with the name?

And the other common factors were how good the 2005 and 2008 bullpens were...that's one of the underestimated areas, but there's always a correlation. Remember all the problems auditioning about 10-15 LHR in spring training, and NONE of them worked out, except Javier Lopez, who we traded to the Red Sox for some reason? I'm sure along with overall team ERA, you'll see an inverse relationship (is that the right term, lol?) with the bullpen results (and lack thereof) for 2005-2009.

Reevaluating the infamous Big Board...maybe Rongey can update us, haha.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 19, 2010 -> 02:11 PM) Do you think the Twins at the end of the season will have the 2nd best pitching staff in the AL? Maybe... If Liriano is back again, at anything close to 2006 form, it's over. Baker is a solid/underappreciated 2, same with Blackburn and Slowey, those guys are like Sonnanstine/Shields. The big question surrounds Carl Pavano, and who he really is and turns out to be. Their pen is very good if Crain and Guerrier can get it back together, obviously Rauch could be an issue over time. Mijares basically took the place of D. Reyes in plaguing the Sox. Then you have Perkins/Swarzak/Duensing, etc., for depth. Not as good as our rotation SHOULD be on paper, but we all know how many division titles the White Sox should have on paper, right?

QUOTE (Disco72 @ Apr 19, 2010 -> 01:53 PM) Building from within is definitely necessary. Not to beat the Twins-rock-in-drafting horse further, but when you look at their payroll distribution, they get some very strong contributions from guys not making a lot of money. The Sox need to continue to have an influx of young talent so that they can pay good money to keep key stars and bring in critical FAs (even if that is via trade, not actual free agency). I would point out that the Sox did not actually get older in the offseason. The bench may be older, but the everyday lineup is younger. It's simple, their method is based on an organizational/development approach that has worked for a decade. Ours is based on "stealing" talent from other organizations, but it's like beating the stock market index or Vanguard Funds. You can't do it on a yearly basis, which is why we're so up and down. Getting Ramirez/Quentin/Danks and Floyd has been followed with the opposite results in the Swisher deal...jury's still out on the Vazquez one. Look at our ten most valuable players: 1) Beckham (draft) 2) Danks (trade of decade three) 3) Floyd (trade of decade two) 4) Buehrle (draft) 5) Quentin (trade of decade four, albeit becoming more interesting) 6) Thornton (trade of decade) 7) Ramirez (FA find of the year) 8) Santos (stolen) 9) Jenks (stolen) 10/11) Rios and Peavy (financial deals) 12) Pena (trade) 13) Putz (FA) You look at the Twins' top 10, almost all of their top guys came from their own system, with the exceptions of Lirano, D. Young and Nathan. But look at the bottom half of our roster...those are players we had to fill because we didn't develop our own players. Pierre (lack of developing our own leadoff hitter internally or trading for one, see Owens/Wise/Lillibridge...trades of Chris B. Young/Rowand) Teahen (Uribe diminishing returns, Joe Crede's health and lack of ready minor league replacement in Fields/Morel/Viciedo) Kotsay...Joe Borchard never develops into LH version of Dunn with more athleticism, trade of Brandon Allen Andruw Jones...desperate reclamation project Rios had to be signed because of Brian Anderson's failure for 4 seasons to develop, and the club's lack of confidence for Sweeney to play CF Linebrink/Dotel...lack of development in minor league bullpen arms, blown assessments/development with Aardsma, Sisco, MacDougal and Masset, etc. Nix (stolen) Garcia/Colon....lack of development of a legit 5th starter internally (only ones have been McCarthy, Gio, maybe, and now, hopefully Hudson) also see Broadway/McCulloch/Honel/Poreda...although Richard was a heckuva find in the 8th round for $78,000 Vizquel...career plateau of Uribe at age 28-29 under Walker's guidance, but reborn in SF Williams Lucy...Castro injury, Castro traded/signed for too much money because we didn't develop our own catchers

And how we became such a terrible home team in 2009 after playing so well for most of the decade at home. Strange, and hard to understand/explain.

Ellsbury is most certainly better than Pierre. Call up Epstein and offer Pierre for Ellsbury and it will be as ridiculous as them asking for Mark Buehrle in previous seasons for Manny Del Carmen. You can forget about David Ortiz soon. He will be replaced by Adrian Gonzalez. It's inevitable that Epstein has to act to, and soon.

White Sox Nation died at the All-Star break in 2006, briefly reappeared in 2008 and hasn't been seen or heard from since then... But i was fun for a season and a half while it lasted. The bandwagon fans are almost all gone now. It's the whole law of baseball economics...the benefits of winning a World Series title last for roughly five years after that championship. We're at roughly that point now...returning back to the "norm" for us as second class citizens and blue collar roots, haha.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Apr 19, 2010 -> 01:17 PM) Except for the fact that that isn't true... What is it so far this season? His GO/FO ratio? Seems every time I've listened to a game, he's hit a couple of balls into the OF that were caught.

And that was coming off the incredible ending to the 1967 season... This is the way of life for a Sox fan, haha. 1983 is followed by the huge disappointment of 1984, 93 is followed by the strike and loss of a possible pennant in 94, 2000 is followed by the David Wells/Frank Thomas fiasco, numerous injuries, Jose Canseco and struggling from a 14-29 start to get back to .500 at midseason (that's probably the best example of recent Sox teams that just sucked in the first six weeks and at least became competitive...but the Indians and Twins were way too good that year). 2003 shows up and just cuts out our hearts in the end...Jerry Manuel drives Sox fans and Keith Foulke to the brink of craziness with his Gandhian passiveness, the total opposite of Ozzie. 2005 followed by the collapse in 2006/2007....2008 followed by huge disappointment in 2009 and starting off 2010. Notice a pattern? No sustainable success. Overall, of course, the 2000's have been the "glory" decade for the franchise overall, since the turn of the century teams of 1905-1917 and the late 50's/early 60's teams. We are the bi-polar franchise of baseball. Then you throw out that statistic that we're like 3rd or 4th in winning percentage in all of MLB dating back to 1990....behind the Braves, Yankees, Red Sox, something like that, I wonder what the updated overall PCTG would be for teams since 2000 (all of MLB) and where we'd place? Undoubtedly in the Top 8-10. Leading to our lack of high draft picks and blown first round picks, non-development of Asian and Caribbean/Latin markets (after Ordonez/Lee), Dave Wilder and Regier...it's really amazing when you compare the homegrown Twins and how many players on our roster were originally drafted by the Sox. KW is the actual hero of "Liar's Poker" the financial novel, not the anti-hero of Moneyball.

The Red Sox and White Sox also have very good bullpens, certainly one of the strengths (more of an individual analysis of their arms/talent/ability rather than "pitching under pressure" in tie games or with 1 run leads/deficits, that's been a definite weakness). Papelbon is walking a ton of batters so far, though. What is curious is both teams have upper-echelon rotations and both have failed to show up quite a bit to start the season.

Except Juan Pierre is a flyball hitter without having any power...

QUOTE (hogan873 @ Apr 19, 2010 -> 01:07 PM) I agree that no major change would occur. I was alluding to the fact that there would be "boos" and much internet and newspaper callings for the heads of those responsible. But imagine heading off on a road trip to Texas and New York with a record of 6-13. Ugh. Our new offensively-challenged team is not built to compete at either of those 2 stadiums. The pitching HAS no other choice but to kick it into gear and carry this team for a month, like coming out of the gates in 2008. Otherwise we're cooked.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/powerrankings White Sox are 25th, still ahead of the Royals, who outscored opponents 50-35 but only went 3-3. They need the "real" Zach Greinke back. See notes on A's (Sweeney highlight), Rays (winners of 8 in a row on the road now, dating back to last season) and Mariners (4 game winning streak). The "perfect storm" is hitting USCF this week. What will happen? The guy with the White Sox comments pretty much hit the nail on the head. Lance Berkman comes off the DL this week, by the way. Are the Twins better than the Yankees or Rays? Probably not. Which is scary, because they're clearly better than us and DET.

How about KW signs Kenny Rogers for peanuts in 2003 for nothing and we walk away with the division, actually having a 5th starter and depriving Minnesota of aforementioned "ace"...better than a 5th, the way he performed that year? Same thing applies to this year....sign O-Dog and Thome, take them away from Minnesota, and we're at least even with them.

Cue the Nick Swisher discussion again....joking!

I think we're about to play the Rays, who have won 8 in a row on the road now...dating back to last season. They just swept the Red Sawx in a 4 game Fenway series for the first time in forever. Which means that we actually have a chance to win a series. No team can stay hot like that. If they do, there'll be even more booing in Chicago than BOS.

How many Boras clients do the Twins have?

QUOTE (Knackattack @ Apr 19, 2010 -> 06:42 AM) Did I really just see a post clamoring for the return of Juan Uribe? Yes, 100%, absolutely.....he and Jose Valentin have been two of the most underrated and underappreciated White Sox players in my lifetime.

Teahen also knocked us out of one Indians game (erasing the good of the superstar performance for one game in TOR)....his defense has been poor, to put it gently/mildly.

What the White Sox actually did right... Brandon McCarthy, 17th round, 2002, $40,000 signing bonus Chris B. Young, OF, 16th round, 2001 Aaron Rowand, 1998, 1st round (35th overall), $575,000 Joe Crede, 1996, 5th round Mark Buehrle, 1998, 38th round, $150,000 signing bonus Ryan Sweeney, 2003, 2nd round/52nd pick, $785,000 Jeremy Reed, 2002, 2nd round/59th pick, $650,000 Brandon Allen, 2004, 5th round Chris Getz, 2005, 4th round, $225,000 signing bonus Gio Gonzalez, 2004, 1st round, 38th pick, $850,000 Anthony Carter, 2005, 26th round Daniel Hudson, 2008, 5th round, $180,000 Clayton Richard, 2005, 8th round, $78,000 Jon Rauch, 1999, 3rd round/99th pick...would go on to become the #1 prospect in baseball before the torn labrum and surgery Dexter Carter, 2008, 13th round Trayce Thompson, 2009 And, of course, Beckham and Andrew Mitchell, who I will never fault KW even if he never makes it back from his injury, it was a great "upside" pick.

Let's compare with White Sox blown draft picks 1999---Jason Stumm, 1st round/15th pick, $1,750,00 1999---Matt Ginter, 1st round/22nd pick, $1,275,000 1999---Danny Wright, 2nd round/64th pick 2000---Joe Borchard, 1st round/12th pick, $5,300,000 2001---Kris Honel, 1st round/16th pick, $1,780,000 2002---Royce Ring, 1st round/18th pick 2003---Brian Anderson, 1st round/15th pick, $1,650,000 2004---Josh Fields, 1st round/18th pick, $1,550,000 2005---Lance Broadway, 1st round/15th pick, $1,570,000 2006---Kyle McCulloch, 1st round, 29th pick, $1,050,000 2007---Aaron Poreda, 1st round, 25th pick, $1,200,000 CAN SOMEONE PLEASE GET OUT A CALCULATOR AND ADD UP ALL THAT WASTED MONEY? That's SEVEN picks between 10-20, a lot more than the Twins have had. Plus Dave Wilder's skimmed bonuses for the likes of Silverio and the Dominicans, Anderson Gomes, Paulo Orlando, etc., we lost a lot of money there and damaged Dominican relationships for years. I can't even remember our last Dominican, maybe it was JESUS PENA? Anderson Gomes was caught with PED’s after being in the Futures Game and Paulo Orlando’s hyped up speed is a myth. Both are Wilder’s “sign-and-collect” prospects. * our Latin stud 16 year old SS Juan Silverio is actually 20.5 years old, not 16. * Outside of Wilder – Regier was the single most despised person by our entire staff. He was the one who made the “decisions” on who went where & when. Wilder was Regier’s “pimp” in that he hired Regier and told him where to put his players. The funny thing is – a Farm Director makes about 100K/season (not peanuts, but not extravagant either) and Regier was driving around in a $150,000+ Porsche and wearing a 15 K Rolex watch with $500+ dollar shoes & belts. You don’t make that kind of money as a Farm Director

SAVED YOU THE TIME....INCOMPLETE HIGHLIGHTS 1997 Michael Cuddyer, 1st round/9th pick, $1.850,000 signing bonus 1999 Jason Morneau 3rd round/89th pick, $290,000 signing bonus 2001 Joe Mauer, 1st round/2nd pick, $4,000,000 signing bonus Nick Blackburn, 29th round 2002 Denard Span, 1st round/20th pick, $1,700,000 signing bonus Jesse Crain 2nd round/61st pick, $650,000 signing bonus Pat Neshek, 6th round/182nd pick Jose Mijares signed as FA 2003 Scott Baker, 2nd round/58th pick, $650,000 2004 Glen Perkins, 1st round/2nd pick, $1,425,000 Anthony Swarzak, 2nd round/61st pick, $575,000 2005 Matt Garza, 1st round/25th pick, $1,350,000 Kevin Slowey, 2nd round/73rd pick, $490,000 Brian Duensing, 3rd round/84th picks, $400,000 2006 2007 Ben Revere, 1st round/28th pick, $750,000 2008 Aaron Hicks, 1st round/14th pick, $1,780,000, Carlos Gutierrez, 1st round/27th pick 2009 Kyle Gibson (future monster/ace) The Twins DON'T MISS VERY OFTEN with their first round draft picks. Michael Restovich is one of the few blown calls. Look at how well their 2nd round picks have done. 2009 Kyle Gibson RHP Missouri 22 2008 Carlos Gutierrez RHP Univ. of Miami (Fla.) 27 2008 Aaron Hicks OF Wilson H.S., Long Beach, Calif. 14 2007 Ben Revere OF Lexington (Ky.) Catholic HS 28 2006 Christopher Parmelee OF Chino Hills (Calif.) HS 20 2005 Matthew Albidrez-Garza RHP Fresno St 25 2004 Kyle Waldrop RHP Farragut HS (Tenn.) 25 2004 Glen Perkins LHP Minnesota 22 2004 Trevor Plouffe SS Crespi HS, Northridge, CA 20 2003 Matthew Moses 3B Mills Godwinn HS 21 2002 Denard Span OF Tampa, FL 20 2001 Joe Mauer C Cretin-Derham Hall HS, St 1 2000 Adam Johnson RHP San Diego, CA 2 1999 B.J. Garbe OF Moses Lake, WA 5 1998 Ryan Mills LHP Arizona State U. 6 1997 Michael Cuddyer SS Chesapeake, VA 9 You can see in 98/99/00, they blew 3 very high draft picks, Top 10 guys. All busts. All of their other "bad" picks have been in the 20's.