caulfield12

QUOTE (joesaiditstrue @ Aug 2, 2008 -> 08:06 AM) Tony Gwynn, Johan Santana, A-Rod, Soriano Have any of those players won a World Series? I guess Soriano did with the Yankees, and it's hard to criticize Johan Santana...whose Twins' teams never had the depth to get past the first round. But it is very curious how Soriano has moved around so much (for a player with his offensive skills) and hasn't won much of anything but big contracts since leaving the Big Apple. A-Rod? Well, I guess at SS, but I don't think we could have won in 2005 because so much of our payroll would have been sunk into his contract, and we wouldn't have been able to add on Hermanson, El Duque, Vizcaino, AJ, Iguchi, Pods, etc. However, it would have been nice to see, and he would have been closer to the Iowa hometown of his best friend from Scores, lol. Maybe too far from Madonna, though.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 2, 2008 -> 07:51 AM) Having 2 guys who don't play the field cripples the roster. Having Griffey paired with Konerko or Thome paired with Konerko...it just doesn't make much sense to have 2 aging LH hitters. I know Everett sort of worked out in 2005 as a replacement for Thomas, but not by much! I mean, if Griffey really plays well and fits in AND wants to stay, he might be a much less expensive option that Thome, and we no longer will be receiving an offset for Thome's contract from the Phillies either.

QUOTE (SoxFanForever @ Aug 2, 2008 -> 07:55 AM) Carlos Gomez Vince Coleman and Willie McGee were two of my favorite NL players in the 80's and early 90's...when you mentioned Gomez, I thought back to Lance Johnson (who couldn't find any playing time in that Cards' outfield) and "rabbit ball" on that searing hot artificial surface. Felipe Lopez is an interesting name....only 28, just waived by the Nationals, has the versatility to play 2B and SS (although not a good defender, only 3 years removed from the Silver Slugger Award)...I wonder if he would be a better option than Uribe? Well, he's at least a player to keep an eye on for 2009.

I was thinking about this over the last couple of days....since the Griffey, Jr., deal. In my lifetime (and I'm 38), we've had Fisk, Baines, Sosa, Frank Thomas, Seaver, Steve Carlton (at the VERY end), Ventura, Michael Jordan (sort of), Bo Jackson, Jim Thome and now Griffey... Which player OVER the last 25 years would most liked to have seen in a White Sox line-up? Barry Bonds? don't think so Cal Ripken, Jr.? Well, that would just seem weird I guess! Kirby Puckett? the hometown angle would have been a nice story...much better than the reality behind the scenes apparently Ozzie Smith? Nolan Ryan? George Brett? Mike Schmidt? Reggie Jackson? Rod Carew? Pete Rose? Randy Johnson? Greg Maddux? Tom Glavine? Tony Gwynn? Johan Santana/Joe Nathan/Joe Mauer/Justin Morneau/Torii Hunter? Chris B. Young? I listed mostly HOF times to get the "ball rolling," but I am sure there are many good ones that I left off the list.

QUOTE (dasox24 @ Aug 2, 2008 -> 02:14 AM) If that were to happen, our team would be sick nasty offensively and defensively... I think Ramirez is much more valuable in the middle infield than he would be in CF, especially due to his range and arm strength. What is the likelihood of being able to deal Konerko in the off-season, and at his lowest possible value? Aren't the odds at least 50/50 that Konerko has a more significant injury (the oft-rumored congenital hip problem/s)...and that there's at least a "pretty good" chance he could return to .280, 30, 100 RBI form with the Sox next year, pushing Swisher back to CF again? Everyone wonders where the power has gone and WHY his drives that used to go out routinely are now dying on the warning track, and KW concurred with that concern by dealing for Griffey when he had the opportunity. Even with Ramirez's OBPS hovering around .800 for much of his hot streak, I think he maxes out around 22-26 homers per year...those are All-Star numbers in the middle infield, only so-so for an OF. Perhaps he will also learn the craft/art of basestealing, although projecting him as a Soriano-esque 30-30 type of player at this point is really pushing it. Unfortunately, the idea of a Getz and Ramirez pairing seems to be getting more and more traction as an internal option...and I just hope that Getz is more like Aaron Miles and less like Willie Harris or Richar. Going with Juan Uribe out of desperation again at 2B doesn't seem too great of an option either. I hope A. Russell can "man up" this offseason and polish his game enough to become a more reliable version of Masset/MacDougal.

QUOTE (joesaiditstrue @ Jul 31, 2008 -> 10:56 PM) i refuse to put any more relavance in his closing stats with the astros and A's, than I would with them for the Royals, none of those teams contended i mention the royals as that was the last team he was a closer for Both the Astro's and A's from 2004 won over 90 games...so I think that it the definition of contention. The 2000 Astros, the other main instance when he was a closer, they had the same record as last year's White Sox team, so I will give you that one. At worst, he would have been considered an "average" closer at the MLB level though. Also, he has 844 strikeouts in 688 career innings pitched, so he obviously has the "stuff," at least before the surgery, to get the job done. But it's what's between the ears that is the most important for every player.

QUOTE (joesaiditstrue @ Jul 31, 2008 -> 10:48 PM) if griffey is butchering plays in CF, costing us games out there ala Mackowiak, you'd have to think that Ozzie would stop putting him out there. even though our defense has been pretty bad lately, ozzie seems to put the best players defensively on the field at each position if he can help it (Uribe is probably better at 2B than Alexei, but you obviously need Lexi's bat in the lineup) I'm not sure if I agree with that assessment....maybe the sloppy Ramirez of the last couple of weeks is a downgrade from Uribe, but it's not even close when you add the offensive impact, and the mental impact/psychological lift he has on the team when he's raking the ball. You could even argue that Uribe might be better at 3B than Crede...19 errors, despite the many great plays, just doesn't cut it. And Joe's bat has been missing in action since the first two months of the season. Somehow, he'll end up with between 20-25 homers and 70-85 RBI's, but Joe Crede has always been something of an enigma. You want to argue that Crede is great, but he's simply very good...with occasional flashes of greatness, but not quite a consistent All-Star or Gold Glover. As with Magglio, I don't think you can take the risk to sign him to a huge contract...despite the obvious flaws with Fields' defense and his very big/long/loose batting stroke. We already have lingering concerns w/ Konerko and Contreras for 09/10, I don't think we can afford to add Crede to that list. And you might have to add Linebrink to the list as well...he has been overused and pushed to the limit the last five years, it's no wonder he is starting to break down.

QUOTE (BobDylan @ Jul 31, 2008 -> 10:38 PM) That Dotel guy has never been in a pressure situation. Cook me a Sloppy Joe. Dotel was a closer with the Astros and A's, and, when healthy after surgery, the Royals. Look at Howry, Foulke, Takatsu, Hermanson and Jenks. At least three of those guys were converted from starting pitchers earlier in their careers. I don't think there's any magic recipe...you either have it or you don't. I do think Thornton might have electric stuff...but, for whatever reason, he just doesn't have the mental strength (like Jenks) to gut it out when the chips are down and we need that big out to end an inning. MacDougal was also a former closer...and, Aardsma and Sisco also failed for a myriad of reasons, but Mike M. had a fairly decent set of lifetime closing stats before coming here. Once again, as mentioned, doing it in Chicago in the heat of a pennant race is different that performing in Pittsburgh or KC. I think the Brewers are realizing how tough getting over that hump is....a week ago, everyone was favoring them to run down the Cubs. Now they're five games out and the jury is out whether they will recover.

QUOTE (ChiSox35 @ Jul 31, 2008 -> 10:35 PM) It does get old, but so does blowing a multi-run lead against the Twins. You don't hear much verbal ass pats aside from the generic spiels when we're playing KC, but who has been nipping at our heels all season/taking vital games from us in heartbreaking manner: Royals or Twins? Well, the Twins will have 5 division championships in the last seven years if they can overtake us...with a very modest payroll compared to what the White Sox and Tigers are putting out there on the field. You have to admire that, that they could survive and even prosper losing David Ortiz, Santana, Radke, Guardado, Hawkins, Koskie, Guzman, Rivas, Mientkiewicz, AJ, Hunter, and turn around and become competitive again in such a short period of time. Have they won anything? Heck, no. But you have to say in many ways they are the second most successful team after the Braves in recent years (I'm not going to compare them to the Yankees or Red Sox, who operate on a different set of expectations and financial considerations). Have they stuck their necks out there and made a big acquisition to put themselves over the top? No, unless you consider the likes of Tony Batista, Bret Boone, Rondell White, Ruben Sierra, Rick Reed, etc., from the scrap heap to be big impact moves. I think the only flaw of Ryan and Smith was their fear to deal any of their minor leaguers, which has also plagued the Angels until recently. I don't know what KW is doing, I think he realized in 2006 that you can make too many moves and change the fundamental nature of the club too much, even though all the moves at the time seemed to be improvements, at least on paper. Time will tell with this Griffey move....how it impacts our CF defense, Wise/Anderson, and, most importantly, Konerko, who we still have to pay quite a bit of money to in 09 and 10.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 31, 2008 -> 10:19 PM) I actually think our offense and starting rotation will be fine and even above average, especially the offense. The problem is the bullpen is injured and performing terribly, and I'm not sure if that is going to change. Also, I think the defense will cut down the error totals as time goes on, but our lack of range on defense could get us killed. It just feels so much like 2003, hopefully I am wrong though because like in 2003, I love this roster. It just feels uneasy right now. Let's not forget, the Twins lost four in a row earlier in the season at the Cell. Both of these teams, along with the Tigers, are quite flawed. For whatever reasons, Thornton and Dotel really seem to struggle when we have huge outs to get...the outs that Hermanson and Jenks routinely got to end games in 2005. I don't know what will happen...sure, like in 2003, the White Sox are a better team on paper, but that doesn't mean much at all. The scary thing is that the White Sox were clearly a better defensive team at the beginning of the season than the Twins, and now they're not. You look at Crede, Cabrera, Ramirez and Swisher in the infield, those are four guys capable of winning Gold Gloves, although Cabrera's losing range and I don't Joe's 100% healthy. After the Twins beat up on the Indians and probably jump into first place by a game or so (because we always figure out ways to lose one game we should have against the Royals), they play 30 out of 45 games on the road. Counterbalanced against this fact is the looming presence of Liriano...probably to replace Hernandez. The irony is that the 2005 team with Pods and the bullpen tried in some ways to mirror Twins' ball, especially with the fundamentals, execution, sacrificing yourself for the good of the team (I'm thinking Iguchi primarily)....KW wanted to build a team to compete with Minnesota, it happened for one season...but then we added Thome to replace Rowand, Konerko and Dye seemed to get "old" the last couple of seasons and now we have Ken Griffey, Jr. Thank god for Quentin, Ramirez, Danks and Floyd...because our farm system hasn't produced much of anything since Buehrle/Rowand/Crede. At least there is some moderate hope for the future, although I expected a lot more out of Swisher than he has delivered. Still, the White Sox are in a vulnerable position, with no prospects in the pipeline (well, Poreda I guess is at least a year way) and yet a rapidly declining/aging team looking to replace Crede, Thome and Cabrera...and the biggest concerns are probably the health (mentally and physically) of Konerko and Contreras, who we are both on the hook for $35-40 million over the 09/10 seasons.

QUOTE (JPN366 @ Jul 31, 2008 -> 07:22 AM) I certainly see your point, I just think Gio and Aaron Cunningham, maybe even Chris Carter, will come back to haunt the White Sox. Carter's raking by the way. I just hope Quentin maintains his current level of success over the years. Because all three of those guys could crack Oakland's lineup sooner than you think. Especially Gio. Well, baseball is filled with guys who have done it in the minors and could never translate that to MLB success. I'm not worried about Cunningham, like Rowand or Josh Reed, he's not a great fit for Comiskey...where you need outfielders who can consistently hit 25-35 homers. More of a 5th outfielder, I think, long-term. Carter could be great...but so could Brandon Allen. Who knows? That's why the minor leagues are so interesting...there are so many cases like Buehrle, Piazza, Pujols, Alexei Ramirez...where talent flies under the radar or is undervalued or underestimated.

QUOTE (shipps @ Jul 31, 2008 -> 07:18 AM) Well JPN met him and liked him so that makes him untradeble. Reminds me of the fans who were heart-broken when "great guy" Aaron Miles was traded for Uribe. Seems that one worked out okay...for both teams. We got a WS-winning shortstop out of the deal. If they gave rewards for this category, then Joe Borchard would have been drafted #1 overall based on his humility, make-up and personality...but look what that produced on the baseball diamond.

QUOTE (JPN366 @ Jul 31, 2008 -> 07:18 AM) I'm a minor league guy, I don't like losing prospects. That's just how I feel. I don't like the fact that the White Sox only see their minor leaguers as trade bait and not as future stars. You would be happier then if BB were GM and we had the best young talent pipeline in the majors because all of the 4-6 year players are inevitably traded before they start making more than $10+ million per season? I think Minnesota fans would have appreciated for Ryan to have a touch of KW's aggressiveness...that one extra move could have put them over the top one of those four seasons out of five that they were in the playoffs.

QUOTE (JPN366 @ Jul 31, 2008 -> 07:13 AM) In trades...you never know how prospects will pan out, especially if you don't develop them. Have you actually seen Gio pitch? Have you met him? If you had, you would want him on your team forever. Teams can have success by developing players, look at the Brewers, Braves, or even the Red Sox. Yes, I have seen Gio pitch....I know, I know, he's the second coming of Barry Zito with a better heater. Seriously, Matt Guerrier was also the next Greg Maddux, according to Lloyd McClendon. I don't believe any hype unless it's backed up by results at the big league level...there have been too many Joe Borchards and Jason Dellaero's in my lifetime to justify getting excited by a future HOFer who is traded not once but twice by the same GM whose one strength is identifying talent that's struggling or undervalued/underappreciated.

QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Jul 31, 2008 -> 07:01 AM) Maybe Homer Bailey is coming back as well for one of Coop's reclamation projects. One can only pray. I just hope Reyes doesn't figure things out in DET. Look at what Guthrie did for awhile in Baltimore...it would have been really hard on had he put up those same numbers for the Indians. And I'm still happy that we don't have to deal with Garza over the long-term, even though D. Young still has the chance to be a very good player, too.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 31, 2008 -> 06:53 AM) Might? Volquez is one of the best young pitchers in the league, you would have to convince them to MAYBE think about our offer. Well, Floyd and Danks looked like two of the best pitchers in the AL in the first half...although both lack Volquez's high 90's heater, Floyd doesn't fall short compared to many starters in "pure stuff." At any rate, it's not going to happen...any more than Lincecum or Cain would be traded by the Giants for that same package. I would like to see Volquez have consistent success over a 2 year period, that's all I am saying.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 31, 2008 -> 06:52 AM) Cordero's contract is hella scary. No reason to pick up Griffey's salary if you're acquiring a setup man (for us anyway) who makes $12M per year over the next 3 years. Besides Koch (who didn't get it done), we've done okay with bargain basement/low-cost relievers over the last decade. Takatsu (for awhile) Foulke Howry Hermanson Jenks Just proves that shelling out money for a long-term deal is silly, unless it's Nathan or Rivera about 5 years ago. There's too much of a downside...look at MacDougal, or Aardsma (although he didn't cost as much). The jury is still out on Dotel and Linebrink over the longer term, although they have been good or better than expected this year at least.

QUOTE (Sox It To Em @ Jul 31, 2008 -> 06:48 AM) Edinson Volquez? I might take Volquez for Floyd and Fields...but he's very unproven, certainly in a pennant race. It's one thing to produce in Cincy (see Kip Wells first two seasons in PITT)...but will he wilt in August and September (see Loiaza 2003)? I don't like dealing Floyd unless it's for someone even better than Contreras or Garcia (at the time of his acquisition). He and Danks give us a lot of payroll flexibility down the road. We can't have a $50 million plus starting rotation...that was the reason we ditched Garland and Garcia in the first place, I thought.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 31, 2008 -> 06:42 AM) If he's going to acquire a plodding lefy corner OF/DH from the Reds why couldn't it be Dunn? At least he's still talented and would bring this team a couple draft picks at the end of the season. Because 1) we're not giving up Poreda or Fields, 2) we still need to have a bullet in the gun to go after another reliever if Linebrink can't come back or too try to pry a lefty loose on the waiver wire (along the lines of a lefty LaTroy Hawkins, like Arthur Rhodes now) to replace Logan potentially. We would have to give up a lot more talent for Dunn than Griffey. Remember, the Red Sox might be in the bidding for Dunn if they dump Ramirez and don't get Holliday or Bay somehow. Simply, we can't do anything to our roster that won't have a detrimental effect...you could argue letting Uribe or Anderson go, but how wanted are either of those guys by anyone?

QUOTE (JPN366 @ Jul 31, 2008 -> 06:38 AM) KW always overpays, I bet waiters and waitresses love him. It'll be at least three players going to Cincy, otherwise I'd be shocked. Overpaid on Jenks. Check. Overpaid on Danks and Masset. Check. Overpaid on Floyd. Check. Really overpaid on Alexei Ramirez. Check. Overpaid on Quentin big-time. Freddy Garcia...yeah, Reed and Morse became perennial All-Stars. Seriously, besides Chris B. Young (Mike Cameron Jr. in disguise) and Swisher, what talent have we actually given up? If you really believe Ryan Sweeney will hit 15-20 homers some day, that DeLosSantos will recover like Liriano from surgery, and that Gio's frame will stand up, well maybe that's a loss. Would anyone trade to re-acquire Chris Young for Quentin straight-up right now. If you want to go back into the past, you can cite the Todd Ritchie trade as probably the worst...Fogg and Wells had decent careers, and Lowe was serviceable (I think it was Sean Lowe, if memory serves correctly?)

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 31, 2008 -> 06:37 AM) Any relief pitchers that could be a part of this deal? Who would we possibly want to give up besides Masset or Logan, better yet, who would another team actually want? MacDougal, lol? I guess Russell is an outside shot, but I don't KW will give up on someone who throws in the mid to upper 90's quite so easily.

QUOTE (joesaiditstrue @ Jul 31, 2008 -> 06:34 AM) when konerko is in the lineup, we are only running 8 capable hitters to the box, so this gives us a 9th guy who can actually swing the bat and get on base keep in mind who he's likely to be replacing in the lineup if griffey is told to wave his NTC so he can go back to playing CF, i wouldn't be surprised if he holds pat and stays in CIN There's also the remote possibility that Thome goes back to 1B and Griffey is the DH. I don't like that, but I guess it's better than sticking Dye at 1B in the heart of a pennant race....or better than Daubach, Everett or Mackowiak in CF.

Obviously he would play CF (until he got injured), with Swisher moving to 1B...and Konerko to the bench. I don't think that's worth Fields, the Reds just want to get out from under his contract and play youngsters, and we have no options then if Crede is gone besides Juan Uribe!

QUOTE(gosox41 @ Nov 22, 2007 -> 11:14 AM) Well for starters, I've been bringing up the lack of Sox farm system for years. I'm sure you'll see some repsonses from them here. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out a good farm system helps fill in holes. While I haven't been positng here until recently, I've been at other boards saying the same think and the minor league "experts' have criticized me for it. So, you're right. What's done is done. But the key is for Sox management to learn from their 7 years of mistakes and help prevent this from happening again. The reality is the reason the team has so many holes and was forced into bringing a guy like Dye back is becuase they had nothing in the minors that was major league ready to step in. same thing with Linebrink. A good reliever, but not a top tiered one. So all the years of neglect of the farm system is an issue. And while we can't go back and change it, the Sox damn well better learn something so we're not forced into these corners again. Remember this team still needs a SP, another reliever and 2 OFer's. Oh year, they're also almost maxed out their payroll and are coming off an embarassing 90 loss system. Maybe I haven't been to far off base the last 5-6 years in my critique of KW and his farm system. Or maybe I'[m just sick of just watching the Sox invest money in guys that any good farm system can easily produce. I hope KW has a good plan to fll the rest of these holes, because if this team finishes under .500 with a $100 mill payroll a second year in a row, I'd expect a lot of pissed off people around here. Bob Well, there's about 15 MLB organizations that haven't won a World Series in the last 20+ years that would beg to differ on that analysis. The White Sox fans have been systematically conditioned for so long that we don't feel we deserve a $100 million payroll...or maybe it's because we won in it all with a much lower one. When I heard about the Torii Hunter years and total money, I knew that the money was going to start flying even more crazily than last year...let's face it baseball is flush with cash, it's almost on par with the NFL in terms of profitability. How else can you explain Torii Hunter and Gary Matthews, Jr., making almost $150 million between them? There have been 7 years of mistakes, but the successes like Crede and Buehrle and Rowand...and the smart acquisitions going into 2005, that's what did it for us. If you think about it, Durham/Ordonez/Caballo had already been jettisoned for basically NOTHING substantial in return...w/ the exception of Pods in 2005. Yes, you can look at guys like Sweeney, Anderson and Valido and say if two of those three guys were ready...or if Joe Borchard ever became what he was supposed to be, we wouldn't have needed Thome so badly from the LH side, and then we'd still have Rowand, etc. If we had Rowand, then we would have traded away Anderson and a certain D-Backs CFer (Chris B. Young) who's more overhyped than Eric Davis around some parts. When you look at things realistically, Young and McCarthy are still the only two players out there that most fans would like back from our farm system....at least 50% would take them back, I would think, if not more. Dye is not an easily-replaced player. Or Buehrle. Maybe even Konerko. Even if Sweeney hit .280 with 15 homers and 80 RBI's, it wouldn't come close to approximating what JD did in 2005 and 2006. There aren't many organizations that haven't bottomed out that are consistently producing young All-Stars every season. Linebrink was one of, if not THE best, set-up man in baseball over the past five years...not the last couple, but as a composite, at least in the Top 5. After the LH reliever debacle in 2006, Jeff Nelson, seeing Hermanson try to come back, Politte, Cotts, Marte, the likes of Sean Tracey and Agustin Montero and EVERYTHING we suffered through last year...to do nothing BUT HOPE? C'mon, who wouldn't be out there trying to crucify KW for that blunder 3 years in a row? A name that doesn't come up, something that went unnoticed relatively....David Riske. Many claim he's one of the most underrated relievers in the game, and he certainly could have helped settle things down last year. But I still don't think a bullpen of Riske, Luis Vizcaino and El Duque would have got the White Sox to 81 wins the way the offense collapsed last year. MAYBE. But we still wouldn't have been close to the playoffs.

QUOTE(bigruss22 @ Nov 22, 2007 -> 11:08 AM) Maybe we can bring in Jenkins now, from what Ive heard he is very good def., and he would still give you atleast an average bat, but one that may strike out alot. Still, he wouldnt be all taht expensive, just another option i guess. Please God, no. Mike Devereaux...Cory Snyder...Ellis Burks...Dave Martinez...Brian Daubach. We have a great knack of getting players 2-3 years TOO late.