caulfield12

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Apr 29, 2007 -> 09:42 PM) I actually don't think the Sox have done that terribly drafting and developing pitching. They haven't excelled the way the Twins have, but the Twins have to be the best in baseball at it. It doesn't excuse it, but lots of other teams passed on Garza as well. And the injury attrition rate among pitchers is so horrific, I'm sure most other teams have pitching prospect lists that are as bad as the Sox (the Mariners, for example). Even though the Giants have had some successes (Matt Cain, and Lincecum -- who I can't wait to see), they had the trio of Foppert, Aisworth, and Williams flame out though all were highly regarded. Anyway, I agree the Sox need to improve and need to draft "stuff" pitchers more heavily. But the system's biggest failure is in developing position players. I see 1 decent position prospect in the Sox system. That's just atrocious. It's because we've used our minor leaguers for trade...and it's much better to stock up on pitchers than position prospects, because those are the easiest to acquire (1B/DH), and left-handed starters, the most expensive. Carter and Cunningham both look solid. Lumsden was right around making the BA Top 100 list and Young was between 5-20 on almost every top 100 list for all of MLB. Of the Twins' pitchers, almost all of them came via trade or Rule 5... Lohse (Rule 5) Silva (trade with Phillies) Santana (Rule 5, then trade to Minnesota) Bonser/Liriano/Nathan (AJ deal) Durbin never evolved. They do deserve credit for Rincon, Crain, Balfour (before injury) and Neshek in that nasty pen. Baker, Garza, Slowey and Perkins look like they could all be good, but I would say we have a similar chance to have an impact with what we have in AA/AAA. I'd say it's about equal. What the Twins and White Sox do extremely well is find prospects in the minors (Twins) and undervalued players in the majors (White Sox, with Loaiza, Contreras, Marte, Uribe, Thornton, Sisco, Aardsma being some of the best examples) who we can acquire cheaply or with prospects who don't fit with KW's long-term plans.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Apr 29, 2007 -> 09:14 PM) Javy is signed through 2010. My mistake, I thought they included this year in the deal... A lot will obviously depend on what happens to Garland and Buehrle. (I know, understatement of century). For now, I don't even care about Crede anymore...although he has to hit again for his value to go up to where it "should" be in the mid-summer trade market. Problem with that is there's now uncertainty surrounding Fields too. QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Apr 29, 2007 -> 09:17 PM) You're right to assume not many top-line starters emerge from those picks. However, there are quite a number of legitimate major league pitchers and prospects: Since 2000: -Adam Wainwright -Boof Bonser -Noah Lowry -Jeremy Bonderman -Joe Blanton -Matt Cain -Chad Cordero -David Aardsma -Chad Billingsley -Adam Miller -Glen Perkins -Philip Hughes -Eric Hurley -Matt Garza It's not impossible to make a good selection at our draft position. That's still down to a 20-30% chance.....divide those players (and the jury's out on at least half of them STILL) by 7 years. Interestingly, Bonderman, Bonser, Aardsma have made their impacts with other teams. Also, SF seems like they've done a good job with those picks (Cain and Lowry too), but let Bonser and Aardmsa go too soon perhaps. I really wish the White Sox wouldn't go with the more polished pitcher approach over taking guys with stuff like Garza or Baker out of OSU (Twins). It will haunt KW if he has to deal with Garza for the next six years while Broadway rots in AAA or with the Nationals/D-Rays as their fifth starter. Ring, McCullough and Broadway were certainly not considered "stuff" pitchers....although KW has had "hits" later in the draft with the likes of Buehrle, McCarthy, Malone, Rauch, etc. Also, we have a COLLECTION of first rounders on this team from other organizations....Aardsma (SFG), Thornton (SEA), Jenks (5th), Sisco (Cubs/Royals) and then MacDougal (KCR). I think DJ once said we had more first round draft picks on our major league roster than any organization.

QUOTE(max power @ Apr 29, 2007 -> 09:04 PM) Can't every competitive team save the marlins list just as many failures from the first round? I think this is good for brian. He needs at bats. He wasn't improving on the bench here. Just getting to the big leagues, it's only 2/3rd's or so (of the first rounders). Then you have the "high impact" All-Star caliber players, and the majority of them are usually packed in the Top 5-10 picks, of which we almost never have that opportunity to pick so high. If you want to see a record of disastrous first round picks, look at franchises like the Orioles or Royals. Our farm system isn't horrible, it isn't great either. We're somewhere, realistically, between 13th-17th and top loaded in AA and AAA with pitching. No legit catching prospects (I know, Lucy and Hernandez have SOME fans)...no middle infield prospects either, unless you count Getz and Shelby. QUOTE(fathom @ Apr 29, 2007 -> 09:08 PM) Is Contreras signed for another 2 full seasons? And obviously I meant a bidding war for a player not affiliated with our team. Yes, through 2009, same as Javier now.

QUOTE(fathom @ Apr 29, 2007 -> 09:01 PM) If Fields doesn't turn around his swing/attitude right now, his stock is going to plummet. People in the press box in Durham this weekend were shocked at how bad he looked. We don't spend big money on free agents. If you look at how things are setting up, we're going to have a lot of positions opening up in the next two years that if we want to compete at a division winning level, we're going to have to go outside the organization. If KW really doesn't want to re-sign Buehrle, Garland, or Contreras, then I don't see how we're going to have a lot of trade chips to acquire offensive help. When you can't call up a single player to DH from your system, it makes you worry about your offensive prospects. When's the last time we got into a bidding war for a player and won once it go over 6 million a year? For Konerko against the Angels and Orioles...and Garland/Contreras/Vazquez, essentially, as they decided to stay here instead of testing the market. Why would we re-sign Jose past 2009 and Konerko past 2010? Both of those contracts might end up being difficult to move...in fact, Konerko's deal is the only one I worried about in the previous five years (when he was really slumping, like he is now), along with the El Duque contract. KW has been very smart with most of his contracts. Fact is, McCarthy and Young are also struggling...so everyone's criticizing the farm system, although they would be b****ing even more if both were leading in the ROY race (I know, Brandon has too many IP).

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Apr 29, 2007 -> 08:57 PM) And since Williams has been here, the Sox have definitely shown they are not willing to spend money. Sorry Fathom, but I beleive you are way off here. ????? Ummm....don't we have the 4th and 7th highest MLB payrolls over the last two seasons? The White Sox have traditionally spent more money on payroll than their attendance justified, and the fact is we won the World Series with a $75 million dollar payroll only two seasons ago. In fact, the White Sox "valuation" by Forbes is 15th but we're spending like a first or second quartile franchise in terms of payroll. We probably had the most expensive rotation in baseball last year, except for the Red Sox or Yankees. Now if you think we should just go out and get an Abreu or Ichiro or Soriano, no, that's not likely to happen...it's only possible for about 5 clubs in baseball.

QUOTE(Wanne @ Apr 29, 2007 -> 08:18 PM) Not sure of all the facts regarding him leaving winter ball this past year. Didn't he have some intestinal virus or something? As for Anderson...you hit the nail on the head IMO. They traded Rowand with no real plausible options for CF. In all honesty...Anderson never should have even been up last year...so to completely criticize the guy and call him a worthless piece of crap...not a good baseball player at all, etc...is completely off base. If anything...another major league outfielder (Byrnes for one option) should have been added last year even if it meant putting Pods (gak) in center. Anderson shouldn't have even been considered until he showed he could put up good numbers in Charlotte on a consistant basis. Don't blame Anderson for Christ sakes....blame Kenny. Mid to high first round college outfielders SHOULD be ready in that time span...unless they're BA or Borchard. Sweeney is a better player right now and he had three years of missing college time and he also played in Iowa, not a warm weather state.

QUOTE(winninguglyin83 @ Apr 29, 2007 -> 05:31 PM) our system hasn't produced a hitter in the outfield since .... el caballo and Maggs. the scouting staff folks are the people who should be on the hot seat. McCullough, Broadway, Fields, BA, Borchard, Stumm, Sweeney, Honel, Royce Ring, Kip Wells, Jason Dellaero. Don't see much on that list to get excited about. Apparently Aaron Rowand doesn't count either. The jury's still out on Chris Young. As it is on Honel, to a lesser extent. And to say that McCullough and Broadway are busts. They were late first round draft picks, not many top-line starters come out of the 20-30 picks in the first. Borchard was the big miss, although Stumm and Honel have hurt a lot too. Heck, add in Danny Wright, Rauch, Barcelo, Corwin Malone, Brian West, Myette, Matt Ginter, Guerrier...lots of disasters on the pitching front.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Apr 29, 2007 -> 03:24 PM) Brandon Wood's first career hit. Man, I wish we could have gotten our hands on that guy. I don't know if they would take every pitcher at AA and AAA (except for Gio and Russell) for Brandon Wood.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Apr 29, 2007 -> 03:06 PM) It's sad that even with a one run deficit, this game feels out of reach. If not Escobar, we'll be facing Shields and Rodriguez. This offense is dreadful to watch, regardless of the opposing starter. The aforementioned pitchers just about closes the game. Please update the McCarthy watch...or cancel it, I think he's doing to AAA tomorrow.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Apr 29, 2007 -> 03:04 PM) Excuse 1 - Weather Excuse 2 - Injuries Excuse 3 - ??????? The Answer - Greg Walker sucks as a hitting coach Tough schedule...we've face 23 consecutive Cy Young contenders throwing from 6-10 pitches each that not even Al Kaline could do anything with.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Apr 29, 2007 -> 02:56 PM) It is true. Actually a guy I wouldn't mind having is Jacque Jones of the Cubs. I know he's not a star but he's a very good role player who can play all 3 outfield positions (albeit he's a lefty bat which I know doesn't help the Sox issues against LHP) but I've always been a fan. That said the Cubs aren't going to give up that soon. However, I think Jones is a guy who not only makes the team stronger while Thome is out, but would make them strong once he gets back as well. Plus it means Anderson can be down in AAA and Erstad/Pods would get more rest with Jones getting a ton of Ab's (as well as spelling Dye out there). So much for momentum.

QUOTE(fathom @ Apr 29, 2007 -> 02:52 PM) Tigers win on a walkoff by Inge. Every Sunday home game seems to be a walkoff. And he was hitting .145 going into that at-bat. At least someone can stop Santana, or at least neutralize him. On the bad side of the ledger, we're back to 4th place in the division if we don't come back and win.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Apr 29, 2007 -> 02:44 PM) And that pretty much sums things up. The pitching has been good enough to contend. But the problems with thin lineup are bigger than Thome being out. Crede, Konerko, AJ, Dye, Mack have all performed worse than what I would expect. The problem is that it may not be a slump for some of them -- it may just be who they are at this point (Crede, AJ in particular). The Sox need to make a trade. And what do they have to trade? It's a classic case of the desperation, shake things up move...getting someone like Willits from the Angels would probably cost us Haeger and-or Broadway. We're stuck. Maybe Anderson and Haeger/Broadway for Ryan Church. We need to do something. Otherwise, we'll just have to dangle Buehrle out there for the best possible return for 08 and beyond and cross our fingers identify the right player/s to acquire in return. WOW!!!

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Apr 29, 2007 -> 02:42 PM) ....and that would've scored a run. There went that game out the window. Thanks Sweeney, if you're not going to hit, at least hold the runner to first. That's the second time today. Guess they're going to Aardsma.

QUOTE(fathom @ Apr 29, 2007 -> 02:38 PM) More incredible contributions by our bench players. Ozzie really should try the hit-and-run more with Mackowiak at the plate. AJ's and now Rob's at-bats have not exactly been the highlights of the game in terms of "small ball." OUCH. Those Phoenix NBA jerseys are uglier than the 1983 Sox jerseys or even the Astros' JR Richard jerseys.

QUOTE(3E8 @ Apr 29, 2007 -> 02:31 PM) Bulls sweep We must be near league-lead in quality starts, no? No...around top third. Intentional walk to Erstad here? The way the Sox are hitting, it might be the best approach. Of course, it won't happen, but it would be hilarious. Meanwhile, Erstad is 14 for his last 41 or something like that. 15 for 42. .357

QUOTE(fathom @ Apr 29, 2007 -> 02:22 PM) I wish I could see something that would make me think we can win over 85 games this year. Well, at least we're not sending Brandon McCarthy to Charlotte...we would have been worse off with Brandon in the rotation, and Garcia's struggling too, as predicted.

QUOTE(fathom @ Apr 29, 2007 -> 02:19 PM) They really do act like Erstad's family members by trying to make excuses for why he would do something bad. He was safe...had a terrible slide though. He went on first move by Buehrle. Meanwhile, we're two innings away from a collision with the Angels' pen again. I was about to say this is one of the best innings I've ever seen Mark throw and then, poof, it's a run on the board.

QUOTE(fathom @ Apr 29, 2007 -> 01:24 PM) I wonder how many times this year Erstad has grounded out to the 2nd baseman and Konerko has struck out in the same inning? Every Sunday a hero? Thames just hit a blast off Santana to give the Tigers a 3-2 lead.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Apr 22, 2007 -> 08:17 AM) Aardsma is a very different beast than Anderson and McCarthy. Aardsma has heat and enthusiam on the mound, something that's clear from watching him. I don't think it's possible to dislike Aardsma for me even if he were going bad. With Anderson and McCarthy, the thing that bothers me most is that everybody's going crazy over Ozzie Guillen and I a. believe that neither of them resembles a good ballplayer and b. believe that McCarthy wasn't better than any of our starters last year, b2. Anderson probably deserves what's happening to him now. It isn't because Ozzie's racist or irrational or hates young players -- it's because Brian did something to disrespect Ozzie's country, or to disrespect the game, and he probably deserves it, IMO. I can second-guess Ozzie, sometimes, but I put this situation on BA, KW and then Ozzie. KW shouldn't have put him on the roster if he knew that Oz has got serious issues with him. I'm glad he did so well for us but I always knew he'd go back to normal. I'd have preferred trading him after 05. (Easy to say now.) (Besides, I don't have as much contempt for him, Podsednik or Garland as I do BA and McCarthy.) Yes, Erstad. I still prefer Erstad to BA. I think BA has a terrible swing. But that's not a discussion for this thread. I believe this thread is about Brandon McCarthy sucking, and I'm glad to see it. 3 runs in first two innings today 9.47 ERA Looks like he will be headed to AAA after they tried skipping his turn once and pitching him out of the bullpen this week. Already at 70+ pitches and only one out in 3rd. Three walks and HBP in first inning...he's struggling big-time with mechanics now...FB down to 87-88. 5 runs now, 10+ ERA, 32 hits in 19.6 IP

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Apr 28, 2007 -> 11:16 PM) More power, less injury prone, and he's having a much better 2007 season. I think the odds of Rowand getting hurt, playing the style he does in the OF, are arguably greater than Erstad getting hurt this year... Although there's a part of me who would like to bring back Thomas, Rowand, Everett and other Sox "leaders," see the team struggle just as mightily for a stretch, if only it would help many to realize we didn't win in 2005 or lose in 2006 due to Rowand's presence.

QUOTE(BobDylan @ Apr 29, 2007 -> 03:10 AM) A guy who's hit for s*** his whole life--do you think he's going to step right in, get minimal AB's and tear lefties apart like there's nothin' to it? Eduardo Perez offers nothing to this team. The guy sucked to begin with, and he's going to suck more now. He's 37 years old and hasn't seen a major league pitch since September of last year. Pablo Ozuna is a better option than Perez. And frankly, I think this guy should be batting lead off against lefties. Put Ozuna in at DH, bring up Josh Fields and platoon him with Mackowiak. That would be fine, if Fields had more than one or two weeks' of experience in his entire life in LF. His offense is a big enough issue at AAA, and then you want him to learn LF in the big leagues "on the job" while in the heat of a competitive division race? That type of pressure destroyed (at least temporarily) Anderson and Borchard, along with many other Sox prospects who couldn't be incubated in Pittsburgh, KC, Tampa Bay, Miami, etc.

QUOTE(Jeremy @ Apr 28, 2007 -> 07:54 PM) The problem is that he's still slugging a paltry .321 and hasn't topped .400 in any of the last six seasons. He can hit around 30 doubles and a few home runs but when you don't hit for average or take walks that's just not good enough. How is Rowand any different from Erstad, except Erstad is more fundamentally sound and a better all-around player?

QUOTE(South Side Fireworks Man @ Apr 28, 2007 -> 09:29 PM) I hope KW gets Rowand. Charles Haeger and Anderson for Ryan Church

QUOTE(fathom @ Apr 28, 2007 -> 09:13 PM) I think we have more blown saves already this year than we did throughout 2005. 19 blown saves, 73% conversion rate overall for the bullpen.... OTOH, we already have 6 in 22 games, which would put us on a pace for 44 blown saves and a coronary.