baggio202

"anti-Reinsdorf hatred"...umm wouldnt that mean we hated the people who were anti -riensdorf???

here are their stats from last year andy ashby 3-10 5.18 era 35 , too many injuries imo pedro astacio 3-2 7.36 , if healthy , maybe john burkett 12-9 5.15 ., this guy is always on a winner , no 1 choice scott erickson 5-12 5.55 , too many health issues orlando hernandez 8-5 , 3.64 , if he can get velocity back..why not randy keisler , dont know enough about him jose lima , 8-3 , 4.91 ,lima and ozzie , let the fire works begin , why not?? brian moehler , 0-0 , 7.90 , been injured 3 years in a row..nope darren oliver , 13-11 , 5.04 in colorado, should go after this guy , lefty too rueben quevedo , not even worth listing his stats garrett stephenson , 7-13 , 4.59 , give him a look andy van hekken , dont know enough about him ron villone , 6-6 , 4.13 , lefty , less hits than ip , 91 k's in 116 ip , go after him jamey wright , 1-2 , 4.26 , if he could ever stay healthy burkett , lima , oliver , stephenson , villone , wright , and hell id even invite van hekken and kiesler....sign them all to minor league contracts..gotta figure one of them could show us enough in ST to help the team... but if i had to pick on id go with burkett followed by villone..

Amen mike imrem..AMEN!!!

so what do you guys want to do...just keep going along with the status quo??...have a GM that makes 2 bad trades for every good one..poor scouting...underachieving...prospects not developing...one excuse after another from management.. twins fans are crying too because they cant keep players???...well that might be true but they went to the playoffs the last 2 years...had the sox accomplished that i wouldnt be asking for kenny's head...we are now heading into a rebuilding phase with nothing to show for it... not only in baseball , but in any walk of life , anytime you make an excuse its a reason to accept failure...yeah JR is a tight wad...but its been proven that the budget he does allow can win a world series..or atleast make you a perrenial playoff team... oakland A's payroll the last 4 years - 32m , 33m, 40m , 50m ... our payroll the last 4 years - 31m , 65m , 57m , 51m sure i wish JR would spend 90m..and there is no doubt in my mind that he could afford to..but he wont and he also wont sell so the sox have to win playing by his rules....everytime KW says i cant make change for a dollar if JR only gives 50 cents...or we cant add to this team because the fans wont support it , is just another excuse to lose.. if you look at those numbers...JR was pretty generous with the budget going into '01...more than doubling it...the last 2 years it went down..wondering what goes on behind close does when they set these budgets...the numbers say to me the JR doesnt trust kenny..but if thats the case why doesnt he fire him???

thanks rex...i just realized something else the payroll in '00 was 31 million in kenny's firsat year , '01 it jumped to 65 million.. it more than doubled...thats a 34 million dollar jump in payroll... it wasnt exactly like KW took over and was told to cut payroll...its possible hehad more freedom than almost any GM in '01.. compare that with danny evans..he took over a 100 million dollar payroll..but was toldto trim it by 20% his first year..now which man had the easier job..which eh cut from 109 million to 94 million

the day kenny grows a pair is the day ill start supporting him

i did get your point on the pitching situation..and its a legit point.. iforgot to credit you when i posted earlier..my fault there.. as for reinsdorf...we know he is cheap..any GM candidate knows it too...so taking the job and then saying i cant win cause the payroll is too low and the fans dont support the team is nonsense...he knew the limitations coming in..if he felt that way he shouldnt have taken the job... one team i forgot to mention..the florida marlins...they won 2 series in 10 years of existence..and they probably are the most financial strapped team in baseball...winning on a budget can happen...but it wont ever happen here in the GM keeps using it as an excuse.. i'll leave you with this...if we went rudderless the last 4 years after schu quit and didnt even have a GM..would we be worse off then we are now???...just resigning player we had on the '00 team and replacing free agents , retirees and injuries with the farm system??? our rotation would be buehrle , kipper , fogg , garland , wright or whoever in the 5 spot...basically , after 4 years of tinkering we are left with loiaza instead of kipper and fogg...both rotations are about the same... kieth foulke , chad bradford , kelly wunsch , sean lowe (am i missing anyone of our relievers from that team that are still on ML rosters???) for '00 vrs botch , marte , mr zero and wunsch..the rest are question marks (maybe zero is too come to think of it)..if kenny never pulled the botch trade id give him high marks..getting marte was his big highlight...but if we didnt touch the pen the last 3 years it wouldnt really be in that bad of shape compared to the pen today... the line up...the '00 needed a left handed power hitter or 2..4 years later the '04 team needs a left handed power hitter or 2...in 4 years he made no effort or failed in his efforts to get us left handed power..unacceptable imo.. frank , maggs , lee , konerko ,valentin remain...jonhson (cj and mj) , singleton , durham and perry were replaced by olivo , harris ,rowand , and crede...i dont think i have to say anything on this...id take the '00 group over the '04 group...i realize id have to work on a catcher and 3rd baseman but we are talking about not doing anything for 4 years....those 4 positions and KW didnt address them long term...again unaccusable.. 4 years now...the teams going downhill... hopefully im wrong..hopefully willie harris will hit 290 with a 400 OBp and steal 45 bases...crede goes on to eric chavez like status..olivo learns to hit and becomes the next i-rod...rowand learns how to turn and burn in CF and becomes a 300 hitter...zero is our hero out of the pen..botch saves 45..buehrle loiaza and garland all win 15 plus...danny wright rebounds with another 14 win season...person returns to the person of ald to go 15-7 again... i hoping for it...what else do we got???

hernandez worked out for seattle last week and topped out at 78 mph..seattle passed...looks like he is done

joe cowley of the southtown... he is pretty fair with his coverage of the sox.. other than that..i get all my news i need right here from you guys

wonder what gun laws are like in venezuela???...he could be locked up for a long time

i know i agrued against this guy earlier but with whats left..i think the best choice would be john burkett....ive talked to some red sox fans this week and one guy said burkett's era was bad because he had 4 starts where he just got blown out of the water...but he had actually had more quality starts (6 or more ip - 3 runs or less) then derek lowe did last year so with whats left ..maybe he is worth a shot..unless of course he signed with someone already

i blame him because he is the one running the show...i realize working for reinsdorf aint easy but we all know reinsdorf will die owning this team so argueing about whether he should sell the team doesnt matter because he will never sell...he turned 300 million or something like that last year if reports were right and forbes rates the sox net worth at about 250 million..but when those discussions come up..yes reinsdorf is ultimately to blame i would hope he sells to an owner thats committed to keeping the sox here and to winning... when williams first came here i was all for giving him a chance...i understand in '01 there were injuries but that team started playing good ball and when williams threw in the towel the sox were about as close to the indians as they were all season...i think they were somewhere around 8 games out when we traded baldwin...sounds like a lot..but st louis was 8 games at the trade deadline too...they made a move , got woody williams who went like 9-0 in august and sept and they made the playoffs ( as for last year - if you go back and read my post more than once i said i supported any move KW made to help improve that team - regaurdless of what prospects it cost us)...that could have been us.. everytime i hear him he is either lying, changing his tune or direction..whatever you want to call it... you talk about the '00 team being a fluke because we lost 4 starting pitchers..well thats what trades and the farm system is for..to replace those guys...you think other teams rotation have stayed the same the past 4 years??? here's oakland's staff from '00 heredia 15-11 hudson 20-6 appier 15-11 mulder 9-10 oliveras 4-8 zito 7-4 pitched a few games at the end of the season..from mid august on so they kept 2 starters and we kept one..they added zito and we added buehrle so thats a wash... plus they lost their best player in giambi , we didnt lose maggs or frank to match that loss...only 3 everyday starters remain...and they turned over the entire bullpen (unless mecir is still there but he had an era approching 6 last year).. compare losses to the twins...surely you dont think they possess more talent then the sox did both in '00 and now.. their rotation...radke ,mays , milton , redmond in '00 (no real 5th starter..no one got even 100 innings) in '03 - loshe , radke , rogers,mays ,reed radke and mays remained..and mays has been a liability to them 9except when he pitches against us) last year he had 8 wins and a 6.30 era..has been injured most of the time... bullpen..hawkins and gaurdado were on both teams..in this day of free agents that pretty good.. starting line up...4 guys remain koskie guzman jones and hunter.. my point..every team deals with injuries and roster turnover over a 4 year period...KW has proved, atleast to me he cant handle the job and how is being classless if i ask him to resign???...im not going up there yelling and screaming for him to quit...ill lay my case out calmly and then say its this sox fans opinion that the team has steadily declined over your tenure and i feel its best if this team again underachieves that at the end of the season you should consider resignation.. is that really being classless???

anyone got a list on who is left??

i really think DW should be looked at for the bullpen..being gromed into a future closer...he size and style remind me alot of eric gagne...gagne was alot like danny wright as a starter...maybe danny could be like gagne as a closer someday???

there is no doubt frank did his job last year..guess the media got tired of ragging on the bulls and hawks..and the bears not signing saban...the attention turned towards frank early this year

siro - wells...shouldnt kenny have taken into account wells disasterous 2nd of '00..especially considering his age???...i really feel kenny knew siro was hurt... baldwin had won his last 4 starts prior to that trade..so how did we know he was breaking down??...he threw the ball better in that stretch then any other time in the season...to me it looked like he was coming back...he pitched well in LA but didnt get run support...started out good the next year in seattle before faling off the table...if your right in what you say and KW did know baldwin was done he still shouldnt have called him "just a bridge"..he should have thanked him for years of service..said ill never forget the guts it took for him to pitch the playoff game last year on a bum shoulder and i hope he succeeds with LA...he didnt have to rip him like that agreed on the scouts...we ahve to have weakest scouting in baseball , or damn close..dont know where the blame lies on that i said earlier i applauded kenny when he made the clayton trade...but i just would have rectified that mistake a year or so earlier...every GM makes mistakes..KW cant seem to fix his... i was upset at losing johnson...at the time we had only olivo and mark as our catchers and had to go back and sign 13 time knee surgery recipient sandy alomar back...johnson is a functional catcher...he was solid defensively and could bunt and hit behind runners...he just hit like crap..but most catchers do...he's a solid back up and functional starter...if we had to make the koch -foulke trade it should have been koch and a major league position player (maybe their 2nd baseman) for foulke (and whatever you to do with prospects)... konerko and lee...im of the firm believe that on a budget you pay for up the middle players and not corner players..to be fair thats why i added lee...id have been right on konerko and wrong on lee....but you have to have some kind of strategy and eventhough i would have missed on lee and he would be hitting the ball hard for someone else i would have had an extra 13 or 14 million to rectify that mistake...kenny cant fix his mistake on konerko because he cant find a taker and he doesnt have payroll to buy a replacement... on schu..yeah he shoulder some blame if he pushed ritchie...did you know if schu was for trading 3 pitchers for ritchie???...that wasnt schu's style when he was iirc... if we had the scrubs payroll kenny could be sucessful..hell i could be sucessful if i was allowed to throw money at all my mistakes...but we dont have that luxary...and from where is sit kenny just doesnt learn from his mistakes... how much longer would you go with KW if we dont show improvement???

this is what i dont get...neither maggs nor frank reurned williams calls..but magglio is consered a consumate professional who will be ready in march..thomas gets scolded for not retuning a call and they hope frank will be ready.. thats way over the line...thomas always shows up ready to play...people might not like his demeanor or whatever but you cant question the man's desire to play..that was such a cheap shot by our fearless leader

perez is a solid pitcher but i dont see the logic in saying he is better than buehrle...he might have betterstuff than buehrle but practically every pitcher in baseball does...thats why buehrle was like a 38 rounder...but as mark has proved..there is more to pitching than just stuff... id love to have perez but that trade seems like it favors the dodgers too much

how does that one look???...weak..very weak...a leader makes those decisions then stands by them...you dont pass the buck

it didnt hurt us???.....you are talking about the ritchie trade , right???...not only did it hurt us it killed us???...each year this guy has made a move that sunk this team 2001 wells for sirotka...first ..the logic of the trade made no sense....we needed one more top pitcher to put us over the top...that was the thinking at the time..so trading your ace (siro) for another teams ace (wells) still leaves you needed one more top pitcher to put you over the top...if you look at the stats from '00, even though wells won 20 games , youll find wells fell of the table the 2nd half..winning onlyu 5 games with an era of 5 after the all star break....while siro pitched his ass off all year...not to mention the bad publicity that williams brought the club after he admitted he sent damaged to toronto in the form of the minor leaguers and then reversed that part of the trade...also makes me think he siro was hurt...siro said he told the sox his arm was hurting on that trip to japan...williams said siro said he told him he was fine..one of them was lieing...after watching williams for three years now who do you think was lying???... also in 2001..clayton for myette...this looks like no harm done...i like the trade at the time williams made it...i thought it would bring some versatility..although it came out after the trade that another GM (i believe it was walt jockety for st louis) told williams whatever you do dont take clayton..he's a horrible teammate...plus clayton was making 4.5 million...so we took on 4.5 million and texas took on nothing in myette...now like i said att i didnt think it was a bad move...changed my mind the day clayton , hitting 115 , came to bat with the sox trailing 2-0 against that all time great pitcher nolan ryan glynn from texas , with the bases loaded and one out...glynn , hit two guys and walked a third to load the bases , clayton , again hitting 115 , swings at the first pitch and grounds into an inning ending DP...after the game when questioned about that at bat , clayton gives the first of his it baseball not batball speeches...then we find out that clayton is also porking frank ex wife...and clayton remains with the team for another year and a half before he is released...and THAT was KW huge mistake in this trade...his ego wouldnt let him retify a mistake he made..and the team suffered.. the baldwin trade...and i dont even care about berry/barry i care about this...KW said when he made that trade at the end of july we no longer needed baldwin because he was "just a bridge" to the next wave of young pitchers and they have "arrived"....fast forward to the ritchie trade...in baseball time only 2 months past (august - sept) and then in the off season we trade 3 pitchers for ritchie and williams said we gave up alot but we had to have a veteran pitcher because we were void of leadership and the young pitchers wernt developing....i guess the next wave fell off the bridge in all of 2 months...it really shows kenny just goes on a wing and a prayer and cant even keep a plan together for 2 months.. foulke for koch..it was argued here numerous times that anyone who studied koch stats knew he might be the most overrated closer in baseball..his numbers compared to other top closers ,including foulke , were horrible...fans from both toronto and oakland were saying youre gonna need to stock up on tums and rolaids with this guy...art howe overused him in sept getting oakland to the playoffs and everyone but KW knew it....everyone in baseball also knew that manuel misused foulke and that foulke had a fantastic 2nd half last year and was primed for a comeback...things that a majority of fans on this and every other white sox board stated before the season started..fans could see it...kw couldnt..know we still have koch albatross around our neck..btw...why did KW feel the need to sign koch long term w/o him throwing one pitch for us???..he could have minimized damage buy just letting him go to arbitration...that compounded the mistake of the trade.. there are more moves he made that wernt smart (long term contracts to corner position players like konerko - lee)..not as bad as these 4 but im too tired to keep typing..but thats my case for not liking williams..i think its a good one and i think it shows that if you could go back in time and reverse his moves we probably would have gotten to the playoffs atleast once..so basically if we went rudderless the last three years w/o a GM the team would have been better off..

that was probably evans best move for the dodgers (outside of perez and jordan for that thug sheffield) the dodgers saved 5 million dollars in payroll..evans then used that 5 milion to bring in fred mcgriff...it was strickly a payroll move..he said so at the time and also said they had no plans for hundley to replace loduca...hundley was a multi million dollar back up because evans was trying to clean up the previous GM's screw ups... lok at it this way for the cubs...they took on an extra 5 million in payroll in that trade..if they didnt do that they have an extra 5 million to throw at maddux right now...you can analyze that trade to death but look at it for what it was for the dodgers..a salary dump

good job steff....opening day at the cell...we all need to give frank a standing O

your right..you can make a case against any GM if you want to..im sure i could find fault with billy beane..but the fact is his teams go to the playoffs almost every year..i cant argue that point and thats the standard that kenny williams should be judged by.. he took over a 95 win team , with the 2nd youngest roster , a 35 million dollar payroll and the number 1 rated farm system in baseball...it was the perfect job to walk into...dont you think he has underachieved??? as for danny evans he not the greatest GM alive but he walked into a situation where the first day on the job he was told to trim payroll by 20%...who had the better deal??? ive given him credit for damaso marte and estaban loiaza...you add olivo to that list so ill even do the same...again thats 3 good moves by your standards..now how many bad moves has he made???...i just dont see how us not improving on the '00 season is not his fault...

von joshua tore KW a new one.. sean lowe , kip wells , james baldwin , jim parque (though i dont know if he counts since he was kinda wacky himself) , now wally backman , kieth foulke , royce clayton (like anyone cares)..i'm sure im missing some whack job was just a generic use for players that shook their head leaving here because of how unprofessional this franchise is run..

whats so difficult about that??...go to any rehab center and youll find guys that drank that much each day for years...they are called alkies judging from that chick in the bikinis these boys are from the south???