TLAK

QUOTE(whitesox91403 @ Feb 3, 2005 -> 05:22 AM) http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...cs-home-utility Last Paragraph I always liked Dave Wills and his description of the green latrine as the Shrine. He is a correct thinking individual. He has said on the air that doing play by play for a MLB team is his career ambition and the pre/post game job is part of 'paying his dues'. If he gets the job I'll miss him but God bless him and good luck!

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Feb 1, 2005 -> 06:30 PM) "your're?" It was a reference to Anthrax's 3rd grade level grammar skills. She taught me the usage but not how spell the damn word! I rarely read anything Anthrax writes so I missed the satire.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Feb 1, 2005 -> 06:10 PM) You're (or should I say "your" :rolly ) arguing with someone who thinks we traded Dave Wickman for Steve Sax, Francisco Cordero for Carl Everett, and thinks we needed Bartolo's 18 wins but high ERA last season, but not McDowell's 13 wins and high ERA when we blew the Wild Card lead back in September of 1996 . :rolly Your're. You're means you are. A nun at St. Rita taught me to remember it by saying your pants are on fire, not you are pants on fire. 40 years and I still remember it, cause she'll come back and rap me one it if forget!

QUOTE(AnthraxFan93 @ Feb 1, 2005 -> 06:02 PM) Sorry Typo.. Does it matter that we gave up nothing to get Sax yet its a bad deal? Bob Wickman has been a MLB pticher for 12 years and has 169 saves to date. That's considerably better than nothing, + Melido Perez. Sax hit .235 with 20 errors at 2b for us. -Its was a very, very bad deal for the White Sox.

QUOTE(SEALgep @ Feb 1, 2005 -> 08:08 AM) He looked fit at Sox Fest and ready to go. He was overweight last year, so he lost fat weight, not muscle. (agreeing with you) Actually, he told Ozzie it was water weight. Oz came back 'What did you do, drink a fukin swimming pool?' -From MLB radio winter meetings coverage.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jan 31, 2005 -> 11:44 PM) In reality it was much earlier.... The writing was on the wall for a long time... On June 26th, The Sox called up Felix Diaz for an emergency start vs. the Cubs, as Shoeneweis was sent to the DL. Frank and Maggs had already been knocked out and the sox were treading water without them. Over the next 5 games the Sox would notch wins vs. the following starting pitchers, Zambrano, Maddux, Silva, Radke, and Santana. The final victory illustrated how truly lucky they had it at the end of June. The sox managed only 2 hits off of Santana, 1 happened to be a 2 run shot, and Garland somehow held the twinks to just one run... But those series of 5 games, and the next 5 to follow, put our bats into deep slumber in the absense of Frank and Maggs. Over the next 5 games, the sox scored a total of 7 runs and batted well under .200 as a team. You didn't realize it yet, but your girlfriend had left you. The baseball Gods are fickle, you list games they had no business winning, I list games they had no business losing, at least in the manner they lost them. Part of the fun of baseball is you have to watch the games to see how they will come out. We spend hours calculating averages and probabilities and it comes down to some ump missing a strike or a surprise steal that doesn't work. Seasons are combinations of hot streaks and cold streaks -all by the same guys. Yea, verily, he giveth and he taketh away.

A lot of folks like to point to the Torii Hunter play as the moment last season went on the skids. But it was only one episode in a week where the team found bizarre and varied ways to lose baseball games. I really can't remember another week like it. It was not long after Frank Thomas went down and Magg's come back failed. They had just won 4 in a row and were 10 games over .500. The team was in 2nd place, 1/2 game behind the Twins. The pitching was all lined up for the big Twins series and things were looking pretty good. Then it became one of the longest weeks in my life. Sunday July 25. Sox V Tigers at US Cellular. This was the game where Jeremy Bonderman was ejected in the 2nd inning for hitting Aaron Rowand. Neal Cotts relieved Jon Garland down 4-2 in the 7th. He got the first two guys, gave up a walk, a single, a walk and then hit Carlos Pena to force in a run -this would become a recurring theme. Ozzie goes to Mike Jackson. Marcus Thames (THE Marcus Thames) hits a Slam to put the game out of reach. Final 9-3 Det. Monday July 26. Sox V Twins at US Cellular. This was the Torii Hunter running over Burke game. The Sox offense against Brad Radke consisted of a Paul Kornerko home run in the 2nd; Borchard later homered in the 8th. The Hunter play developed when he led off the inning with a walk off Cliff Politte. He stole second as Cuddyer struck out. Politte intentionally walked Koskie, then threw a wild pitch with Henry Blanco at bat, both runners advancing. Blanco hit a fly ball to Perez, the throw was going to be late but Hunter ran over Burke anyway. Final 6-2 Minny. Tuesday July 27. Sox V Twins at US Cellular. Johan Santana throws a 2 hitter through 6. Garcia gives up 4 over 7.1 and Marte melts down in the 9th, he goes walk, single, single, wild pitch and single before Ozzie mercifully goes out and gets him. Sox score on 2 HRs from Carlos Lee and 1 from Carl Everett, long after the horse has left the barn. Final 7-3 Minny. Wednesday July 28. Sox V Twins at US Cellular. Loaiza battles Carlos Silva to a 4-4 tie before the game goes to the bullpens. Going into the 9th Takatsu starts his second inning and struggles. He walks Guzman, Ford bunts him to second. Shingo intentional walks Morneau. Hunter bunts out (trying for a hit) and the runners move up. 2 outs. Shingo gets Jacque Jones to pop up behind 3rd. Fantastic. NO-O-O-O-O-O! Jose Valentin drops the pop up and Jones promptly singles in a run. Joe Nathan yawns while retiring the Sox in the bottom of the inning. Final 5-4 Minnie. Thursday July 29. Sox V Tigers at Comerica. Schoeneweis pitched pretty well giving up 2 earned in 5.1. Detroit scores the lead run in the 6th after a throwing error by Jose Valentin. Gload pinch singles in the 8th. With Willie Harris at bat he gets thrown out trying to steal. Harris, of course, then doubles. Timo grounds out and Lee flies out. Final 3-2 Det. Friday July 30. Sox V Tigers at Comerica. This was a see saw game where the Sox battle back from 2 down twice behind Jon Garland. Marte was on in the 8th and Alex Sanchez leads off with a single. Marte pops Infante, gives a single to Guillen and strikes out Dmitri Young, Gritty performance. Then he walks Rondell White to load the bases and walks Bobby Higginson to force in the winning run. The Sox go pop, fly, K against Urbina. Final 5-4 Det. Saturday July 31. Sox V Tigers at Comerica. Buehrle is great giving up 2 runs over 9 innings. Mike Maroth matches him and the teams take a pair of 5 hitters into the 10th. Urbina comes in and the Sox go down meekly once again. Cliff Politte opens the Tigers half by striking out Inge. Sanchez singles and Infante singles so its 2nd and 3rd. Irod is intentionally walked. Then Politte walks Carlos Guillen to force the winning run on the second consecutive night. This one was even a walk off. Final 3-2 Det. The Sox were now 3 over .500, 5 full games behind the Twinks. The streak ended the next day with a win over the same Tigers but neither the team, nor I, ever recovered completely.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jan 31, 2005 -> 05:37 AM) Ozzie had to move guys around last yr because of the injuries/ ineffectiveness of the players. If guys are producing and helping the team score runs, there will be less moving guys in and around the lineup. The bench guys would get spot starts to rest guys and pinch hit rather than replace the regulars. With the possible exception of Aaron Rowand, there is not a guy in the line up who won't have to be pinch hit or pinch run for in certain situations. In a tie game if Paul, Frank or AJ is on base you have to run for them. All the other guys are poor match ups for certain pitchers, such as Posdednik against a LH fireballer or Uribe against junk righties. Carl (like Timo) might sit on his butt all night and end up being the key to victory. There are no Beltrans on this team, to win it will take all 25 guys so I can't agree with you that the team is so strong it can afford weaken it's bench for a couple prospects from a minor league team.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jan 31, 2005 -> 06:58 AM) Well maybe you should go back. I really don't believe I used words like Idiot or moron. I agreed with someone other than yourself. Doesn't make me a moron, just a point of view. There is always Whitesoxinteractive. That AstralSox guy has to be a cub fan, he's using Todd Hollingsworth for his avitar.

The only way Everett becomes a 'problem' is if they get 5 guys (outfielders + Frank) playing so much better than him that he's stuck on the bench. I think that would be a very good problem to have. The Oz'r showed last year that he likes to use the whole roster. I expect all these guys to be in the mix. The mix will change from day to day and inning to inning.

Absolutely not! The White Sox have no need for any slimy, stinking, obnoxious, fetid, venomous piece of fecal matter off their roster. The whole team, including the manager, are a bunch of lying, cheating, steroid crazed club house cancers. Keep them away from our guys. Reports are Everett looked fine at Soxfest, and the way this team is shaking out all 25 guys are going to see lots of action, even if they don't start. I anticipate Oz will go 11-12 position guys deep in close games and I'd much rather have Carl Everett coming off the bench than Joe Borchard. I respectfully dissagree with your suggestion.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jan 29, 2005 -> 01:16 AM) jeckle a minor leaguer, hell anyone has bad years. B4 his surgery Grilli was a higher prospect i think he was a pretty high up draft pick. So if he could get his arm back in shape he still has the ability to be a decent ball player. I like diaz too but when he started he didnt show much either. Jason Grilli was the No. 1 draft choice (4th overall) of the San Francisco Giants in 1997. KW shows inordinate love for failed No 1's, see Davis, Borchard.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jan 29, 2005 -> 12:56 PM) he was released once he reached his goal. The goal of tieing the Grand Slam mark? I'm sure you meant 1,000 games. I'm not saying he was as good as the other guys on this list, but it put him in pretty good company. Its like the adage about starters, you have to be a pretty good pitcher to lose 20 games. Player Games Wins Loses Saves HOF Jesse Orosco 1252 87 80 144 John Franco 1088 90 86 424 Dennis Eckersley 1071 197 171 390 2004 Hoyt Wilhelm 1070 143 122 227 1985 Dan Plesac 1064 65 71 158 Kent Tekulve 1050 94 90 184 Lee Smith 1022 71 92 478 Mike Jackson 1005 62 67 142 Rich Gossage 1002 124 107 310

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jan 29, 2005 -> 12:15 PM) Yup, that's a lot of money for a guy with huge question marks to his health. Eleven million for a healthy maggs might even be a bit of a stretch but that's probably around what he's worth when healthy. I imagine there is an out clause for the Tigers. Last year they signed IRod despite his back problems. The deal includes a clause where "The team can terminate his contract after two seasons if a spinal injury in his lower back causes him to go on the disabled list for 35 consecutive days or longer in 2004 or 2005. If he misses 35 or more days on the DL with a lumbar spine injury the following year, the Tigers can terminate his contract after 2006." That deal was also made with Scott Boras. The Tigers seem to be developing a method for signing torn up star players while limiting the risk. No other players seem to want to go there.

QUOTE(winninguglyin83 @ Jan 29, 2005 -> 07:58 AM) Workers? If Kris Benson is a worker then his wife is a nun. A worker is a guy who gets up at 6 a.m. and reports to the steel mill. give me a break. as bad as the Sox have it, the Royals, Reds, Pirates, D-Rays and others have it worse. They're not players for any top-shelf guys. None. The system ain't working. How many years in a row do you want to watch the REd Sox vs. the Yankees in the ALCS? There needs to be a cap of SOME kind to level the playing field so Boston and New York can't spend more on their infields or pitching staffs than other teams spend on their 25-man roster. Preach on, Papa Pirate, preach on. 1. If 7 million for Benson is too high, (and it is certainly debatable), so is Adam Sandler's 20 million per movie. Benson has much better command and a plus fast ball. 2. Two of the last 3 WS champions were mid to low budget teams, Angels and Marlins. The Angels have since gone wild but the Marlins are still pretty conservative. You can beat the Yankees and Rsox without going broke. 3. If furthering competitive balance means capping players salaries then you may indeed get a lock out - strike, and this could kill the 4 BILLION-dollar golden goose. After the '94 strike I didn't set foot in Comisky again until 2000. If these guys can't figure out how to live on $4 Billion, I'll spend more time at Hawkinson Field. 4. There have always been revenue imbalances in baseball -look at the St. Louis Browns or our own White Sox in the '30s- but the game seems to have survived. I used to feel as you do about this issue until I realized that it just wasn't my problem. Now I just watch the games and join occasional debates with friends like you, but I don't take it to heart. Its just baseball.

QUOTE(sox-r-us @ Jan 29, 2005 -> 01:09 AM) I agree with him. I hope there is a hard cap in 2006. I hope there is a long lock out to get it, but it needs to be there. Screw George and his $. I hope the NHL gets it too. Why? so the owners can just stuff all the profits in their own pockets? In '04 Forbes shows team revenues of $3,870,000,000. USA today salaries total $2,071,265,943. That's 54% of the gross. Doesn't sound outrageous to me. Its an entertainment industry, the players ARE the product, after all we don't pay our money to watch Jerry Reinsdorf play do we? Compare the big salaries you were quoting to the movie business. According to a British article Hanks, Cruise, Gibson, Carrey and Julia Roberts are able to start negotiations at $25m per picture. Around the $20 million mark are reputed to be stars like Adam Sandler, Cameron Diaz, Will Smith, Brad Pitt, Denzel Washington and Jackie Chan. At $15m are the likes of Kidman, Costner, Halle Berry, George Clooney, Jennifer Lopez and valley girl Catherine Zeta Jones. Delgado's 5/52 is a lot of money, but I'm sure the Marlins wouldn't have agreed unless they were confident he would bring in plenty of revenue to justify it. Baseball is nearly a 4 BILLION-dollar business. I don't buy a word of the whining, it's just a cover up for greedy men to take an even larger share of our money. Arise ye workers from your slumbers!

Key quote:

All Sox Rookies or Sophs > .300 Rookie teamID Rookie Year Season Avg AB Jack Fournier CHA 1913 2nd .311 379 Happy Felsch CHA 1915 2nd .300 546 Earl Sheely CHA 1921 Rookie .304 563 Johnny Mostil CHA 1921 Rookie .301 326 Earl Sheely CHA 1921 2nd .317 526 Johnny Mostil CHA 1921 2nd .303 458 Alex Metzler CHA 1927 Rookie .319 543 Alex Metzler CHA 1927 2nd .304 464 Carl Reynolds CHA 1928 2nd .317 517 Art Shires CHA 1929 Rookie .312 353 Johnny Watwood CHA 1929 2nd .302 427 Smead Jolley CHA 1930 Rookie .313 616 Billy Sullivan CHA 1931 2nd .316 307 Zeke Bonura CHA 1934 Rookie .302 510 Rip Radcliff CHA 1935 2nd .335 618 Mike Kreevich CHA 1936 Rookie .307 550 Mike Kreevich CHA 1936 2nd .302 583 Hank Steinbacher CHA 1938 Rookie .331 399 Ralph Hodgin CHA 1943 Rookie .314 407 Minnie Minoso CHA 1951 Rookie .324 516 Floyd Robinson CHA 1961 Rookie .310 432 Floyd Robinson CHA 1961 2nd .312 600 Jorge Orta CHA 1973 2nd .316 525 Lamar Johnson CHA 1976 2nd .302 374 Dave Gallagher CHA 1988 Rookie .303 347 Carlos Martinez CHA 1989 Rookie .300 350 Frank Thomas CHA 1990 2nd .318 559 Mike Caruso CHA 1998 Rookie .306 523 Magglio Ordonez CHA 1998 2nd .301 624 Chris Singleton CHA 1999 Rookie .300 496 Carlos Lee CHA 1999 2nd .301 572 <

QUOTE(Mr. Zero @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 07:25 PM) You hear that all you Reinsdorf savages??? KW asked for a couple extra million, JR said ok. I wonder if KW had JR's defibrillator in his hand, waving it around the room 'Now Mr. Riensdorf, I could drop this or we could pay Iguchi ...'

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 08:15 PM) Delgado>Pauly>Sexson/Glaus Lets give Delgado a year under the Roid testing program and see.

CWSGuy406 asked about this in the closed Harris thread. I don't want to reopen the old arguement but this question is intriguing on its own merit. It is a much rarer accomplishment than I thought. This shows players who broke in since 2000 and hit .300 with 300 or more AB in their 1st or 2nd year. Rookie year = first time they had 130 AB. It's a mighty short list, if you get a rookie who hits .300 it is truely something special. We should appreciate the job Burke and Gload did, they hit .333 and .321 but didn't have enough ABs: 120 and 234. Rookie teamID Rookie Year Season Avg AB Juan Pierre COL 2000 2nd .327 617 Lance Berkman HOU 2000 2nd .331 577 Albert Pujols SLN 2001 Rookie .329 590 Ichiro Suzuki SEA 2001 Rookie .350 692 Paul Lo Duca LAN 2001 Rookie .320 460 A.J. Pierzynski MIN 2001 2nd .300 440 Albert Pujols SLN 2001 2nd .314 590 Alfonso Soriano NYA 2001 2nd .300 696 Aubrey Huff TBA 2001 2nd .313 454 Ichiro Suzuki SEA 2001 2nd .321 647 Junior Spivey ARI 2001 2nd .301 538 Austin Kearns CIN 2002 Rookie .315 372 Vernon Wells TOR 2002 2nd .317 678 Alex Cintron ARI 2003 Rookie .317 448 Marlon Byrd PHI 2003 Rookie .303 495 Scott Podsednik MIL 2003 Rookie .314 558 Juan Rivera MON 2003 2nd .307 391 Lyle Overbay MIL 2003 2nd .301 579 Travis Hafner CLE 2003 2nd .311 482 David Newhan BAL 2004 Rookie .311 373

Is this a parallel to Aaron Rowand? They didn't think he was ready either, and brought in Lofton and Everett to do his job. Willie shouldn't whine, play well when you're in there and if you're as good as you think you are the opportunity will come. Ozzie plays players who play good. Earn your playing time.

You could also open up a spot by trading some one from the 40 for a prospect.

QUOTE(WSFAN35 @ Jan 24, 2005 -> 07:59 PM) Link? SF 40 Man

QUOTE(Cubs Suck23 @ Jan 24, 2005 -> 07:17 PM) Now that we got Iguchi who does the Sox knock off the 40 man roster This is such a good question, I felt it deserved it's own thread. Rogowski? Reynoso? Davis? Who can they get through waivers?