flavum

Another cautionary tale. Every minor and major league camp should have an talk about money, speed, alcohol, and pictures of crash sites of Jose Fernandez's boat, and Yordano Ventura's vehicle. Nodody is immortal, and if you do dumb things impaired and going fast, you can die.

QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Jan 21, 2017 -> 11:29 AM) How did you find it, and does it say how many pitches he threw? http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...p&year=1959 They didn't keep pitch counts back then, but I'm sure he was pushing 200 for a game that ended in a tie.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jan 20, 2017 -> 02:59 PM) Billy had a hip injury that season which forced him to miss about a month if I remember correctly. Mark Just for fun, I looked this up... He pitched 16 (yes, 16!) innings on August 6th. Of course five days later, he gives up 5 runs in 4 innings. Then his next start, it looks like he left injured in the 3rd inning, then missed a few starts after that. Now THAT'S abuse.

Two bad things about the 1959 White Sox: Billy Pierce had a down year by his standard. Minnie Minoso was on the Indians.

Minoso is more deserving than Pierce, and it's not even close. I also think Kaat should get in, and Tommy John would have 300 wins without crappy Sox teams.

Buehrle has a shot if the context of what a Hall of Fame starting pitcher changes within his own era. Obviously some guys were more talented than him, like Santana. But the consistency was rare among his peers. To be honest, he's a lot like Jack Morris, and we know how people feel about him.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 12:27 PM) They can take their chances and hold on to him, but I think he gets traded a week from today. Wednesday, January 25.

25 instagrams, 2000 protein shakes, 6 new tattoos, 3 months on the DL.

Minoso is one of the best players not in the Hall. It's a shame he's not in. Blocked by segregation, and the second best AL player from 1951-1961. Too bad he didn't get in while alive. He'll get in someday, but too late, like Santo.

Miguel Ferrer, 61, cancer Had a part on Twin Peaks. Not sure if he was on the reboot. Also first cousin of George Clooney. Son of Rosemary Clooney and Jose Ferrer.

QUOTE (turnin' two @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 02:53 PM) If Paulie had played his whole career in Yankee pinstripes, he may have had a chance. Like Bernie Williams?

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 02:16 PM) Even if four guys get in every year Konerko still wouldn't make it. He isn't anywhere close to a hall of famer. I was exaggerating to make the point. I would have to compile a list of former and current players that will be retiring in the next 10 years that would have to go in before PK, or even Buehrle for that matter. Both guys are top 2% guys, but not top 1%- and that's what the Hall should be.

If you believe 4 guys should get in every year for the next 15-20 years, then Konerko has a shot. If you believe only 2 or 3 should get in, then no. You put in Konerko, then Andres Gallarraga, Carlos Delgado, John Olerud, Al Oliver, Dave Parker? And don't forget about McGriff, who should be in, but won't through the writers. It's tough to get in.

QUOTE (daggins @ Jan 19, 2017 -> 10:28 AM) With all votes now being public, I think guys like Mussina and Edgar Martinez will see significant bumps as well. Edgar Martinez will be next year's Hoffman. He'll be real close. Voter group think is a real thing. People who never thought Hoffman deserved it, will vote for him because he's close, and no other reason. I'm not a Hoffman or Edgar guy, but it's going to happen.

I could see Thome coming up short in his first year, like Vlad did. There's no reason not to vote for him, but voters still act like 1st Ballot means something, which is stupid. Either you think the guy belongs in, or you don't.

If you have MLB Network, watch the last two minutes of MLB Tonight the next airing.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 06:55 PM) Andruw Jones and Omar Vizquel have to have legit shots. Andruw doesn't pass the smell test. I know the numbers look great for 10 years and the defense, but, ya know... Vizquel looks like a glove-first Hall of Fame SS. I wouldn't complain if he got in, but the stat nerds are going to be anti-Omar.

2018 ballot- Chipper Jones, Jim Thome are locks. Also on- Rolen, Andruw Jones, Johan Santana, Johnny Damon, Omar Vizquel Vizquel is going to be the new Jack Morris. My 2018 ballot- Guerrero, Clemens, Bonds, Mussina, Schilling, Manny, McGriff, Chipper, Thome Only 9, but Hoffman is getting in next year along with Vlad, Chipper, and probably Thome.

If you didn't know, Ivan Rodriguez made his debut at new Comiskey Park in 1991. He got married that morning. The first player he threw out was Joey Cora, then Warren Newson. Also, Piazza getting in was very good for him on his first ballot.

Bagwell - 86.2 Raines - 86.0 Rodriguez - 76.0 Hoffman - 74.0 Guerrero - 71.7 Clemens and Bonds around 54%

I don't care about Beer right now. My hope is the Sox make quality trades to the point where they have the worst AL record in 2017 with a losing interleague record. If that means they draft 2-5 in 2018, so be it.

The country of Colombia is spelled without a U. Back to the discussion...

By the way, just want to say before it becomes a topic...Raines was a good player for the Sox, but he's not ours. He doesn't deserve to get his number retired or a statue. If the Sox want to have a Tim Raines Day where they give away something, and give him a gift, great. But don't get crazy.

I was there. Congrats, Tim Raines, in advance.

They can take their chances and hold on to him, but I think he gets traded a week from today. Wednesday, January 25.