GREEDY

QUOTE (Hawkfan @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 09:24 AM) abreu and figgins sounds great, but dye for figgins straight up sounds like absolute garbage. Are there any pitchers were possibly looking at? Post Script...Whether or not we get him, I hope this be the last time we talk about trading for chone figgins, amen. Just in case anyone cares: Abreu sucks in RF. I would have to think Quentin would move to RF if Abreu replaced JD.

QUOTE (jasonxctf @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 06:33 PM) boy i can't wait to read all of the "i knew Jerry Owens was good" comments on the board, when he hits .280 with a .345 OBP and 50SB next year if he wins the starting job. those numbers, by the way, are basically his 2nd half 2007 numbers factored out for an entire year. I think most people's problem with Owens is his defense. Jesse Owens also f***ing fast, BAD in CF.

DeWayne Wise sucks.

This leads me to believe that Josh is our starting third baseman barring any catastrophies. It really seemed like Ozzie's MO to have Betemit starting at 3B come opening day. I imagine "defensive ability" to the majority of baseball fans is what the announcer/managements "public" opinion. Ask 90% of the people at the Cell what they think of JD's RF defense and they will tell you he is awesome... because Hawk says so. C'MON JD! YES! So if Cora tells us Josh looks good at 3rd, obviously there is a chance he is progressing, but odds are Joey is just "breaking us in" for a season of Fields at the hot corner.

QUOTE (kwill @ Jan 24, 2009 -> 10:41 AM) http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index...%3dolney_buster In the article, he talks about the money given to the likes of Carlos Silva and Jarrod Washburn in the past couple of years. Ben Sheets this winter will be lucky to receive a two year,20 million dollar deal. This a little crazy? He has never posted an ERA over 4 and last year pitched 200 innings. I realize that he is an injury risk and does cost us a draft pick. But, if Cabrera signs with a team before June than it can almost be a wash. Plus, it is not like we have a high draft pick this year anyways. He would fit nicely into are rotation making it the best in the division with Buehrle, Sheets,Danks,Floyd and Colon. That would be a fantastic rotation turning a weakness into a strength. Also, this would allow other guys to get full development down in the minors especially Aaron Poreda. This would allow Clayton Richard to develop out of the bullpen last year where he was very effective. It would only cost the White Sox 3 years for 30 million dollars. Plus, Our rotation would be set for the next 3 years except for the fifth stater spot which would provide the Whitesox with some stability. I know you have to come up with the cash and it seems people are reluctant to do that these days, but I have a feeling next winter Ben Sheets could have gotten 13-15 million per season. Want to see Sheets sheet his pants? Bring him to the AL.

QUOTE (Swingandalongonetoleft @ Jan 20, 2009 -> 03:08 AM) but we may as well have traded Swisher for an upper deck seat for me in new Yankee Stadium. Or at least free parking... Why Betemit? Why not just nothing, or a cup of dirt from old Yankee stadium? I am a Swisher fan, but when you see what free agent corner outfielders signing for, it makes me wonder how Kenny got anything back for Nick. Swisher is owed around 27 million dollars.

QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Jan 19, 2009 -> 05:32 PM) Lol chicana, like him well its not like mexico was guna win anyways, go usa lol Sorry, just thought Melissa from Chicago was American... Who cares anyways

QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Jan 19, 2009 -> 05:14 PM) Quentin was supposed to play for mexico And this makes someone that lives in Chicago, sad because?

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jan 17, 2009 -> 03:13 PM) Good article on MLB.com about BA's outlook on the Owens/CF Situation http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...s&partnerId. He seems very resigned to playing second fiddle to Owens this Spring, and while he appears to be right it’s unfortunate to hear him talk like he knows he has very little to fight for. I hope that if Ozzie/KW do in fact decide to go with Jerry Owens as an everyday CF, it isn't just because he fits the role of a "typical leadoff hitter". Unless big changes are in the works, it seems silly to me to have one guy that can play small ball, followed by: AJ, TCQ, Dye, Thome, Konerko, Alexei and Fields. This really makes ZERO sense. We don't need Jerry Owens trying to steal second base when he is followed by seven "all or nothing" hitters. Ozzie is two years from being rid of Dye, PK and Thome. If he wants to try and play NL baseball at the Cell, let him committ suicide in 2011; Until then we need guys that can play defense, get on base and not clog the bases. Sorry, no jokes in this one.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Jan 16, 2009 -> 06:58 PM) Getz Lillibridge Viciedo Colon Marquez Fields Nix Poreda Richard Owens Betemit Contreras i suppose leave off the players you dont think will even make it 1. Betemit/Fields/Thome Platoon 2. Owens/Anderson Platoon 9. Poreda (bullpen second half) If the roster is left as-is, it will be the year of the Ozzie shuffle.

Jose's main took half of his money in '06; Old man gotta get paid one more time.

QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Jan 15, 2009 -> 08:44 PM) I don't get KW's obsession with Figgins but that's just me...also I dont get why a lot of posters here hate Owens,I agree that he is no Rickey Henderson but to say that he's one of the worst major leaguers ever is over the top,me thinks...let's give him a real shot at the big leagues to see what he can do. I can't speak for other people but I personally don't like Owens because he is a speed demon that plays s*** defense. He takes horrible routes on fly balls making him a poor center fielder; and he has a terrible arm, making him a below average corner outfielder. To answer you other question, I think KW likes Figgins because for his manager wants a tradiitional leadoff hitter. It is no fun being a manager of a team that just tries to get on base and mash, even if that is clearly the best blanket strategy when playing at the Cell. Figgins gets on base at a .370 clip, is very versatile, and is a switch hitter. I think the "obsesion" on the message boards with Figgins is because we supposedly need an infielder who is a traditional leadoff man, and he is the only one seemingly available.

QUOTE (WSoxMatt @ Jan 15, 2009 -> 01:13 PM) I completely agree...even if it bombs its no big deal, I am pretty sure any deal involving Fatolo is a BIG one.

-I am sitting here chuckling just at the possibility of Herb's fatass helping a hobbled Fatolo off the field. - Anyone with good seats between the bases better learn to keep an eye on their churros. - Special Announcement: Bartolo's Soxfest signing will be held at the end of of the Palmer House buffet. For an additional $5 Colon will sign your memorabilia with a barbecue rib. - Maybe Kenny was thinking he could fill both holes in the rotation by signing just Bartolo's fatass? - Whitesox.com press release: With the prospect of newly aquired Bartolo Colon seeing some action as a long reliever, renovations to widen the gate to the bullpen will begin immediately. Also, Bartolo will be forced to sit Indian style on the bullpen mound as the bench will not support both him and Jenks. - Nancy Foust is furiously working on an organ rendition of Sir Mixalot's classic: Bartolo Got Back. - When the city of Chicago asked the White Sox to "Beef Up Security" around the ballpark due to terrorist threats, this signing wasn't what they had in mind. - During contract negotiations Bartolo was able to gain a great deal of leverage against KW by threatening to forgo the '09 season to appear on "The Biggest Loser". This strategy worked because Rick Hahn was convinced Colon meant he had an offer from the Cubs. - Brooks Boyer is already planning: Bartolo Colon BobbleBelly Day! - Bartolo likes the idea of wearing all black to support the Sox fan's "Blackout", as he thinks black gives his hips a "slimming effect".

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 13, 2009 -> 04:19 PM) Because Dye is a different sort of player than Abreu. Dye is a big time power hitter from the right hand side. Abreu is a medium level power hitter from the left hand side who is more of an OBP machine than Dye. Dye get you 70 points more slugging (just last year) and probably 15+ more home runs in an equal number of at bats. Strictly in terms of numbers, some teams will fit better with one over another. If you have a left handed heavy lineup, i.e. Cincinnati, where Votto and Bruce both are 20+ home run guys from the left hand side, adding in a lefty like Abreu is setting you up to just be dead meat for left handed pitching. Alternatively, if I'm a team who has good hitters but is just lacking pop (The Dodgers come to mind if they lose Manny) then the extra 15-20 home runs is a major threat in the middle of my lineup that I'm missing out on. (Hell, with G*d, Thome, Fields, and hopefully Konerko putting serious power numbers in our lineup, I can make an argument that Abreu is actually a better fit for us in that the extra OBP will turn in to major run production). Plus, there are personality differences between the 2, where one type might be better on a team full of young guys than another. And since Dye's 2010 year is an option year, there are also contract differences...you can cut JD lose after a year if your team pulls a 2007-2008 Chicago Bulls and falls apart, while if you have to go to 2-3 years with Abreu, you can't. I agree but I didn't necessarily mean just Abreu, it was more of a "general" point. Trade rumors early in the offseason involving players that could easily be replaced in the FA market, don't make a whole lotta sense. These Dye rumors were around when there were several corner outfield choices available. And while you could make an argument that none were as good as Dye (I personally disagree but it could be a case of "you don't know what you got till its gone"), it near impossible to argue that Dye was enough better to warranty giving up good young pitching, when you could sign a FA and keep your talent.

QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ Jan 13, 2009 -> 03:38 PM) Defense plays almost zero part in judging a first basemans credentials. It should, it is 50% of the game.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Jan 13, 2009 -> 12:37 PM) I like Dye. The team would be better with Abreu plus whatever we get for Dye. On the flipside of that, wouldn't the team that would be receiving Dye in the trade, be better off keeping their own talent and signing Abreu? Why give up something of value for JD, when similar players are available for roughly the same money in the FA Market? Until all of the big name free agents have inked, these Dye rumors make zero sense to me unless they are in exchange for a player with a questionable contract.

What is with the White Sox fan's obsession with putting players barely good enough to play a corner outfield position in center? Oh wait, it is their GM and Manager's trademark.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 10, 2009 -> 11:31 PM) Thanks for posting that.... Defensive metrics? Good point about the grass in Texas, but I cannot find a Home/Away defensive breakdown. I have just felt very strongly about Young since Ozzie proclaimed his love for him. He hits in a hitters park, doesn't hit for power, and doesn't get on base. Putting the bat on the ball has some value, but overall I have a hard time swallowing that this guy is an everyday player, let alone an All Star. Defensively Young is not real good either. He has a decent arm but moves like he is in quicksand. I puked a little in my mouth when he got the gold glove this year. Young is a weird kind of player: he is the kind of guy that your average fan outside of Texas hasn't heard of; Your above average fan that has a decent knowledge of the game, loves him and would even go as far as calling him underrated; and the diehard stat head losers like myself, despise him more than any other All Star.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 11, 2009 -> 10:22 AM) According to Phil Rogers of the Trib, don't be surprised if Freddy signs a one year, non-guaranteed deal with the White Sox. Garcia's last hurrah was that gem he threw against us 9/29/08. Freddy needs to find a beach while his right arm can still lift the Frescolita to his lips.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 11, 2009 -> 10:04 AM) So explain Kyle Farnsworth to me then. Please? Pretty please? The ladies love his seashell necklace that he got at Disney World, and in turn buy season tickets in droves. C'mon, everybody knows that. 9 Million is a bargain. QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 11, 2009 -> 10:04 AM) What s*** hitting the fan? Consider me confused. If you are suggesting that the economy will take a turn for the worst, than I don't consider it posturing by the owners, I consider it good investing by the owners, though some will make short-term commitments on the cheap to bring in quality players. If you are suggesting that the free agent market in 2010 is going to be somewhat stronger, you also have me confused, because there really hasn't been a free agent class this strong in quite some time. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2637615 The labor agreement is up after 2011 and I read negotiations will begin next offseason. QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 11, 2009 -> 10:04 AM) Everything I said was pretty much true or a very strongly argued point, and you back it up with that. Congratulations. I tried to give you a pass but prepare to be torched. I am guessing this isn't the first time you have tried to defend Juan but you are going to lose. And honestly, this is a true story (delete this part if it isn't kosher):I went to a game in Tampa (not a WSox game) last year and I sat next to a middle aged white woman; and the b**** yakked the entire game. She was telling her friend about her and Juan Uribe's exploits the entire game. I couldn't believe it, of all players, Juan f***ing Uribe. Now the fact that baseball players cheat on their wives is common knowledge, but the fact that Juan's road beef was literally a forty or so year old lady, that looked like she worked as a Casheir at Caseys General Store (I imagine they have those in South Dakota) made this all the more interesting for me. The lady was maybe a four, MAYBE, on a good day. Ok on to the Juan Uribe junk that actually matters: Juan sucks. You like his offense? You say he is good situational hitter. You did slip situational in there, but I cannot let the words "Uribe" "Good" and "Hitter" stand in the same sentence. Juan has posted a sub .300 OBP in one of the best hitting parks in baseball. And it was not a fluke, his on base percentage has been as consistently bad as Keanu Reeves movies where he isn't on an adventure. In 2006 Juan Uribe was responsible for the absolute WORST offensive season by and everyday player IN WHITE SOX HISTORY. Don't you dare badmouth Ron Karkovice, he will arrest your ass. Uribe had an OBP of .257 in 463 AT-BATS. His power is spotty, existent only in the summer, and only at the Cell. Juan "in his best season" last year, hit a whopping two home runs on the road. Juan's versatility was valuable to the White Sox in '08, I will give you that (I don't just ignore points that do not help the cause), but I am not certain that this has anything to do with the $4,500,000 he received. The White Sox had two 3B ahead of him in Fields and Crede. A shortstop ahead of him in Cabrera and he was in a competition essentially with Anderson, Quentin and Alexei for the second base job. I think Kenny needed a backup infielder, Juan won a WS here and Juan got paid... because that is what happened in all of baseball, up until this offseason. Juan's defense did look good to my eye in '08. Too bad it didn't correlate to +/-, as it rated him -1 at 2B, -3 at 3B, and in his last full season at SS, a -7 which was good for second to last among everyday SS. If you double Juan's 2008 numbers at both 3B and 2B he rates in the bottom quarter at both positions. RZR doesn't like Juan's '08 defense either. It sets him as a tad below average at 2B and makes him the WORST third baseman outside of Melivn Mora. I wonder if Hawk got us a little too excited about Juan's defense, because the numbers absolutely, positively do not live up to the hype or my memory. Juan doesn't get cheated at the plate, neither home or dinner. Juan is lovable, that catch was the s***, I Juanna love Juan. Too bad he sucks.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 11, 2009 -> 09:53 AM) So you are arguing collusion, seriously? I didn't say that I wasn't crazy! It is easier to defend Blagojevich's matching track suits, than it is baseball conspiracy theories. I also forgot to to mention that it is good to hear the people of South Dakota haven't been effected as much by the economic crisis. In all honestly, I just was trying to make an amusing post reflecting the economic crisis baseball apparently has fallen into. I find it hard to believe that the owners are in worse shape than the auto industry (who it appears also overpaid its workers to a degree that will not longer lallow them be profitable). My thesis in college was a Walmart bashing, business ethics, ass whooping opus. Now a few years later I am kind of wondering if we should be happy that Wally World paid their employees what they could afford to give them, while still remaining an economic force? Maybe we need to stop wanting big business to play UNICEF, and let them keep the USA on top of the world. I'd bet we'd all be better for it. Before you think I am turning this into a political rant, let me say that I think this offseason might just be the MLB owners getting their employees in check so they make sure they are stil a growing, economic force.

Gas, lui andato!

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 11, 2009 -> 09:01 AM) Really? Erstad got $1 mill in 2007 and I thought the Sox were paying just about perfectly. What makes Mark Kotsay worth two and a half times as much as Darin Erstad of 2007? I wish I got 1.5 mill as a pitcher with a surgically repaired arm at the age of 39. Name me one starter that got $9 mill a year whose best year came 5 years prior to him signing that deal. The best you could probably think of is Marquis, and that's a flat out lie, as his came in 2004 (a year after Redding's), he signed his deal 3 years afterwards (2 years earlier than Redding), and he's been a durable and dependable major league pitcher (something Redding has never proven). Redding's lucky to get $2+ mill after finally pitching another full major league season. Full-time DH (because he costs you games with his glove), thus preventing him from signing with teams who already have a DH or use it differently, way old, way overpaid in his final season as a Yankee, and slightly overrated thanks to a short porch in RF at Yankee Stadium. not even 300 PAs, and they gave him $2 mill with nowhere to put him but LF or the bench. He's going to be 33. His career line is .260/.330/.370/.700. And he deserves more? I bet Ross Gload wishes he was a free agent after 2004. With a .236 average and a .767 OPS all the same. And that was a season ago. He was an underrated player, but he's getting the most and the best opportunity as a player he can. One of the best defensive shortstops in the game. Has the capability of playing any of the difficult infield positions at a gold glove caliber level. Always been a good situational hitter. Always had good power. The White Sox had no other options at the time period. $4.5 million is a bargain for a stopgap starting shortstop, and now he's going to struggle to get $2 million after coming off his best season since 2005. To put it politely Mr. Boras/Tellum/attempting-to-be-MLB-agent, the economy is in a poor position to give out lucrative deals at any level, unless to a true superstar (which the Yankees have done), and this type of fallout has been expected for a while. The economy and price level has been in a completely downturn...here in South Dakota, gas was $4.20+ a gallon less than 7 months ago, and now it is at $1.80. That's more than a 225% drop in the price of gasoline alone, and the Dakota territories have not been hit nearly as hard by the economic crisis as many of the bigger states have been. The reason these older and mediocre players are getting "mediocre" contracts is because they are exactly that or worse going forward, and they should be happy to get what they want. You do a fairly decent job of contradicting yourself. First, you say that all of the guys I listed were either overpaid or their contract was on par. Then your very next point states "the economy is in a poor position to give out lucrative deals". So which is it? I didn't pick the best deals for my argument, I choose the last five or so middle tier veterans that signed. I stick by my statement that these contracts are all down either half the mula, or they are half as long as they would have been just one offseason ago. And yes it is fairly easy to pick apart the value/ability of any aging "non superstar", good job. I know this is wild conspiracy theory talk and it is very hard to defend, but I really feel the lukewarm FA market is one part slumping economy, NINE PARTS the owners posturing before s*** hits the fan in 2010. I'll give you a pass on your Uribe Man-Love, but bring it up again and you are getting it Love, Mr. Boras/Tellum/attempting-to-be-MLB-agent

QUOTE (kapkomet @ Jan 10, 2009 -> 10:12 PM) I'm sort of torn about this one. Michael Young does get more power from being in Arlington, but he also puts the bat on the ball. Well. You don't get 200 hits for 6 seasons in a row just out of pure luck. And not to mention, US Cellular isn't exactly a spacious ballpark. His fielding is better then average, sorry to disagree with you, GREEDY. He's really a pretty damn good ball player and I think he'd do well in Chicago. With all of that said, I don't think I'd like the package - and I do also agree that's a pretty stiff contract to pick up. While defensive ability is a tad hard to measure effectively, Michael Young is definitely not average. +/- has Young ranked 28th, 32nd and 27th over the past three seasons, and that is against qualifying shortstops, making Young either the worst or second to worst for the past three years (that is as far back as James' site goes). RZR is kinder to Young, especially in '08, but in '05 it rated him last. His OOZ (out of zone) play totals are near the bottom despite playing everyday. Yes, "He Blows" might have been an exaggeration, but he isn't good, and Young is only getting older. "Putting the bat on the ball" is easy to measure, but hard to gauge it's importance. Obviously, anyone who watched the Sox daily last year saw how horrible Swisher was, while his OBP was still somewhat respectable. So, last season definitely took a little bit of steam out of OPS being the "end all" stat in my eyes. I will give you that. I have no problem with an aggressive hitter posting a high batting average and a low OBP if he hits for power. Young does not hit for power. Milton Bradley's OBP was literally 100 points higher than Young in '08 while hitting in the same conditions. That means Young, a non power hitter, was on base one time less than Bradley every 2.5 games. Bradley just signed a deal for less than half of the money that is owed to Michael Young. I don't want to upset you as I read the forum often and respect your opinions, but another thing I have noticed over the years is that when someone uses the words "Pretty" "Damn" "Good" and "BallPlayer" in the same sentence... it usually also includes the word "Grinder".