Boogua

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 5, 2013 -> 04:24 PM) Tournament games have about 0% to do with conference play. Ah, you're saying the B1G would be too physical for him in conference. That's a better point, but the B1G is always pretty physical and he put up 43 on MSU that year. This argument is trivial though. At least the Thomas debate will play itself out.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 5, 2013 -> 04:10 PM) I dont think he ends up as a top 3 scorer in the Big Ten this season. He obviously couldnt get much going against athletes in the NBA. Athletes in the NBA>>>>>>>> athletes in this year's B1G. Also no team in the B1G this year had more NBA players than that team Morrison went 10-17 against in an NCAA tournament game when he was every team's focal point on defense. We can just agree to disagree.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 5, 2013 -> 03:39 PM) Sullinger averaged 7 and 7 in 23 min in Jan before his back went out. Funny enough his back hurt him enough in his last few games to have surgery. And no, I dont think Morrison would be a dominant force in this years Big Ten. I dont think Olynk would either FWIW. Your opinions are great, I hope to see more of them, however I dont think you've watched enough of Thomas this season. He will be a good bench player in the NBA, thats about it. If he goes undrafted I will be the first to say I am wrong, however thats pretty far fetched as of today. Also I dont look at Chad Ford's lists. They are usually far fetched at this point. I believe he has guys like GR3 as lottery picks. I dont think thats very accurate at this point. We can agree to disagree on Morrison. He showed what he could do against high level athletes at the collegiate level. That UCLA team had current NBA players on it and it's not as though Morrison had a ton of help. Would he have averaged 27 per game or whatever in the current B1G? Probably not, but I think 20 PPG would have been easy for him. If you're looking for 15 game sample sizes where Sullinger averaged 7 and 7 I think it's safe to say he didn't transition all that well. I've watched an okay amount of Ohio State games. Two of my better friends are Ohio State fans. He seems to have a decent amount of trouble defending the pick and roll. That's not going to help him at the next level. And I think he gets drafted. Pretty much the whole draft after the first 10 or so picks are pretty meh usually. I mean, Ronaldo Balkman was taken #20 one year. I just disagree with the whole being a good bench player part. I think he has a better chance at being in the NBDL (or Europe) in 5 years than being a regular rotation guy. He'll probably stick around for a while as the 11th guy off the bench that has an occasional scoring outburst of 10 points though. This is obviously all speculation though and I know you're sticking up so hard for him because you're a big Ohio State guy. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out though.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 5, 2013 -> 03:09 PM) Yes, clearly, especially your horrible "will he even be drafted" comment. The guy is projected late 1st early second and yet you dont think he'll even be selected. The Adam Morrison example is incredibly spot on though, I mean Gonzaga basically plays in the Big Ten but slight further west. I guess you havent watch much of him this year, but he's developed into a better defender yet still below average. He will be guarding a 3 or a 4 from off the bench. He played the 3, 4 and 5 at OSU through conference play this year. Unless he plays for the Bulls (not likely) he will be fine defending in the NBA. I guess we'll see with all the expert opinions. Sullinger wasnt going to translate and he ended up coming on and starting for the Celtics before he got hurt. Chad Ford has him projected as a mid to late second round pick/undrafted. So it's not that far-fetched. So no, not clearly. Yeah, because Morrison wouldn't have done well in any other conference. He played a B1G team in Maui that year I think. He put up what, 43? If you don't think Morrison would have played well in any conference that year I don't know what to tell you. That is just absurd. His last game he played a UCLA team chock full of NBA players and still went 10-17 with 24 points. I can't believe that's what you got out of the Morrison comparison. Fair enough though. He is a very below average defender. I'm sure he's gotten better, but he's still way below average. Sometimes he doesn't even try. Sullinger would have been drafted higher if he didn't have injury concerns. He also averaged 3.8 PPG and 4 RPG in the 5 games when he started. Yes, he clearly transitioned well to the NBA.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 5, 2013 -> 02:35 PM) Right now he's projected late first early second Indiana hs 3rd highest all time leading scorer 2nd highest leading scorer for 3 years at osu Top scorer in top conference in college I'd say he'll be perfectly fine. He's scored on everyone that guarded him so clearly your red flags are overstated. He won't be an allstar but he'll post up 3's and stretch 4's from the bench. Very valuable in the NBA. Clearly they're overstated? I'm sure people said the same thing about Michael Beasley, except he was much more dominant, a better shooter, and is taller than Thomas. Just because you're a good scorer in high school and college doesn't mean you're going to be a good scorer in the pros. Adam Morrison anyone? There are numerous examples of this. Deshaun Thomas is a terrible defender. Is he going to guard 3s or 4s in the pros? Maybe they have to shift to zone? There's also no way of knowing how effectively he'll be able to post up NBA guys. I think my red flags are clearly *not* overstated considering the man who is the Indiana hs 3rd highest all time leading scorer, was the 2nd highest leading scorer for 3 years at osu, and was the top scorer in the top conference in college is projected as a second round pick (Chad Ford couldn't find one scout or GM that had Thomas in their top 30)

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 5, 2013 -> 01:55 PM) Shooter/rebounder/scorer. He has 1 kid and another on the way. Think Wayman Tisdale I would say that would be his absolute peak. I honestly don't think he'll ever even have a season where he gets to Tisdale's career averages of 15 and 6, let alone some of his peak years. What position is he going to play? He's too small to play the four and he isn't quick or athletic enough to play the three. He shot 44.5% from the field and 34.5% from 3, so I wouldn't exactly call him a shooter either. He's a scorer, but his size and athleticism are pretty huge red flags. Will he even be drafted?

Deshaun Thomas announces that he's going pro. Not sure how his game translates to the NBA game. It should be interesting.

QUOTE (gatnom @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 02:11 PM) The problem is that we're really one dimensional. Abrams drives. Rice drives. Bertrand drives. None of them have shown a propensity to shoot at a consistently high level. Maybe some of them add a jump shot; it's not impossible. I'm just not holding my breath. Hill is supposed to be a pretty good shooter. Bertrand showed some improvement on his 3 last year before he lost all confidence too. The Illini are losing Paul and DJ. They both shot, what, like 33% from 3 last year? Griffey was insanely inconsistent from 3 last year too. The three point shooters that the Illini are losing weren't actually great three point shooters. You might not even call them good three point shooters.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 01:50 PM) At this rate we're going to prove that NBA basketball is and always has been terrible! Yes, but with the 90s being slightly less terrible.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 01:26 PM) Proof that the league as a whole is better today than in the 90's. I present to you the 1994 all-stars. Behold. http://www.basketball-reference.com/allstar/NBA_1994.html I can't even believe my eyes. B.J. armstrong? Mookie Blaylock? Kenny Anderson? Cliff Robinson? Horace Grant? John Starks? Yes, because in 20 years a lot of people aren't going to say that about David Lee, Zach Randolph, Brook Lopez, Luol Deng, Joakim Noah, or Rajon Rondo. Hell, guys like Larmarcus Aldridge, Jrue Holiday, Paul George, and Blake Griffin might be on that list of meh all stars. Lets also not forget that Al Horford and his career 13.7 and 9.6 averages have made all star games in this era. Looking at a random all star team probably isn't the best way to gauge an era. Edit: Didn't see lostfan's post before I posted this.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 01:07 PM) Booqua started it. I saw right through that ruse. I had to reply. Hey, I just thought it was interesting because it is the first time in HISTORY. I mean, the league has been in existence for a while, so that's pretty crazy. And yes, I do think the 90s was better and everyone who has seen me post in here obviously knows that. I wasn't trying to sneak one by you.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 01:03 PM) Mutombo would not average 4.5/5 blocks or whatever it was a game if he were in his prime today. Defensive 3 seconds alone wouldn't allow it. He averaged 4.5 blocks per game once in his prime and 4.1 another year. Most years were around 3-3.5 and there is absolutely no reason to think he couldn't do that in today's game. Larry freaking Sanders is getting close to 3 blocks per game.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 12:25 PM) Sorry, it's a different game now. Centers aren't allowed to just camp out in the paint and block shots (Mutombo/Eaton). A big now has to be almost agile/athletic as a wing to get by today. .... You do realize that Mutombo averaged more blocks per game in 16 minutes per game at the age of 42 than Omer Asik is averaging at the age of 26 in 30 minutes per game, right? This was after the rule changes too. Maybe he was just a good shot blocker?!? Just a guess.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 12:51 PM) You didn't need it back then. There's this one guy, I won't mention his name, but it rhymes with Jill Tussell, that is considered to be one of the 10 best players of all time even though he's really not. Bill Russell averaged 15 PPG for his career and played before KAJ.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 10:37 AM) Well that's just it - there's a ton of "we don't know," I think much much more than last year. At the start of last season, you knew exactly what you had, and 4 seniors contributing, 3 from the year before. You are still sitting here right now with 1 senior and losing 4 of 7 contributors, with a bunch of freshman replacing them. It's easy to predict/expect a step down. If he somehow turns this mess into a tournament appearance, he should be in consideration for BT coach of the year. I really feel like you're underestimating the "we don't know" of last year. The Illini had what, two returning proven players in Paul and Richardson, and then guys that were extremely inconsistent or looked like below average players. Egwu was at the 5 (he averaged less than 10 minutes per game his freshman season) and it looked like he had no backup (thank god for Mclaurin). Griffey/Henry were at the 4 and neither of those guys showed that they could play the 4 in the B1G. I'm more confident in Henry going into this season than I was in Griffey going into last season. Then you have Paul and DJ (Rice averaged 17 PPG his last year at Drake, so there's no reason to believe he can't make up for a decent portion of Paul's offense). Then there was Abrams at the 1 with no backup in sight and really no clue if he could even handle the 1. Each team had a returning Bertrand, but this year's team will be a 5th year senior. Last year's team had no new faces. There is no reason to think that a guy like Hill or Nunn can't contribute this year. And again, if the Illini pick up a 5th year senior (like is somewhat expected) that could help with overall depth too. I think there was just as much "we don't know" regarding last year's team, if not more. New coach, new system, only two returning solid contributors, no backup C, no backup PG, etc.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 12:08 PM) Kevin Love -injured Dwight Howard - injured/disinterested Andrew Bynum - bigger vagina than Rose That's three guys right there that would easily be 20-10 if healthy. It's still the first time in HISTORY. I guess there weren't injury problems to big men in previous years. I don't know how Dwight Howard being disinterested is a valid excuse, btw. Also, show me when Andrew Bynum has been healthy for a full season (so he shouldn't even be listed here like the injury is rare) and has averaged 20-10. Please and thank you.

QUOTE (gatnom @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 10:18 AM) Illinois just graduated 4 out of its 7 players who got significant regular minutes including its best 2 players and the only player capable of backing up center. Barring any amazing 5th year transfers, it would be one heck of a coaching job for Illinois to make it to the tournament next year. It's way too early to predict how next years team is going to do. Last year at this time it looked like Meyers was leaving, mclaurin wasn't in the fold yet, there was really no point guard, and the team won 16 games the previous season. We don't know what 5th year transfer might come in, we don't know how rice is going to play (he could be the best player), we don't know how players will continue to develop, and we don't know if the freshmen can contribute. I think the illini actually have a decent shot at the tournament.

For the first time in NBA history the league will have zero 20 point 10 rebound players. Tim Duncan is the only player averaging 20 and 10 per 36 apparently (and he's 36). Kind of crazy.

So nobody really talked about the Heat beating the Spurs on the road without James, Wade, and Chalmers. Look at that starting 5 around Bosh. Rashard Lewis, Mike Miller, Norris Cole, and Udonis Haslem? Gross. I remember a few pages back some people were completely underselling Bosh's value and basically said that Lebron would still win even if he was still with the Cavs. I think Sunday is a pretty good indicator of how valuable Bosh still is (he's just the third option now) and how good the Heat play defense as a team. 86 points to the Spurs in San Antonio is pretty damn impressive.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 30, 2013 -> 10:45 AM) let's also remember...if Slausson is going in at LG, he's a huge upgrade over Rachal right out of the gap. The question then winds up being whether Carimi is a real downgrade from Louis. If he is, then they'll need to think about moving someone like Scott there or drafting a RG. The comparison isn't Slausson vs. Louis, its Carimi vs. Louis and Slausson vs. Rachal. A very good point. How amazing would it be if someone like Warmack fell to the Bears (think how decastro fell last year) and we took him? Our OL would be upgraded at every spot outside of center.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Mar 29, 2013 -> 06:03 PM) What makes you say that? They're the same age and Slausson was drafted higher than Louis. Yes, but Louis is coming off of injury and has never played better (you can argue, if you really wanted, that maybe they were close to equal) than Slauson has over the past three years, so obviously Louis is the choice here....

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Mar 29, 2013 -> 03:48 PM) True, but from what I am hearing Slauson more than held his own last season. Yes, he has had a positive score on PFF the last three years at guard (not by much, but it's still positive) and has played in every game the last three years. For someone to think he isn't an upgrade is just absurd.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Mar 29, 2013 -> 02:07 PM) Bears got their OG they so desperately needed.... This badass... Matt Slausson. The draft is going to be really interesting, I'm excited. I'm really, really liking this new GM. He has already majorly upgraded the OL and TE positions.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Mar 28, 2013 -> 10:50 PM) What did Cream do all week? Was he aware Syracuse runs a zone? Well it's not like he used to coach against Boeheim in the big east or anything. Oh wait....

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Mar 28, 2013 -> 10:42 PM) Does a loss keep zeller and oladipo another season? They might come back, but it would be a really bad choice.