chw42

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Jul 22, 2010 -> 12:12 PM) When the Sox made their move from June to all star break Jenks pitched 15 2/3 innings, had a 1.14 era, 18 K, 3 bb's, allowed only 9 hits,.765 whip, and 12 saves.Those are pretty good/great numbers. I guess my point is, when he's on and doing his job the Sox are at their best. There's no reason to think he can't bounce back unless there is some unknown issues with him that haven't come out. Plus, there's no guarantee Thornton or Putz will thrive in the closers role either. I suspect Ozzie will give Thornton a few morw save opps but Jenks will still be the main guy unless he continues to struggle. In the past Jenks has usually responded pretty well when OG has threatened to go by commitee. Putz almost has 100 career saves. He knows how to do this.

Either way, we just lost a trade chip.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 22, 2010 -> 11:45 AM) I know a lot of people consider Danks our ace but I think Gavin is our best pitcher. The disparity between his FIP and ERA are still pretty high, I think we'll continue to see him pitch this well for a while. It's just sad that he gets absolutely no run support.

Here's something for everybody to chew on. Last night, Bobby Jenks had a Win Percentage Added of -.82, mostly because the Sox had a 82% change of winning the game before Bobby laid an egg. In the game he blew against the Twins, he had a Win Percentage Added of -.625 (Santos got -.3 for having to mop it up). The White Sox had a 95.1% chance of winning that game. Bobby Jenks' WPA on the season: -.38. Those trying to say that it's only been a couple of bad outings need to look at that -.38 and figure it out that the bad he's done in certain outings have overshadowed any good that he has done this year.

The other thing that was lost in the midst of Bobby Jenks' meltdown: Gavin Floyd lowered his ERA to 3.87 and is now has the 6th best WAR among all AL pitchers due to a 3.19 FIP.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 22, 2010 -> 11:10 AM) I've heard quite a few Cooper interviews, and he's the most defensive person in the organization. The interviews are almost always the same. He gave me absolutely zero insight in that interview.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 22, 2010 -> 11:05 AM) I just don't see the point of trashing a guy and not praising him when he does (did) well. I don't call for the second string quarterback every time the starter throws 2 or more picks. Jenks had the closer job. He's blown 2 of 3 saves and Ozzie promptly called for a closer by committee which is the right thing to do. What good is it to get mad, call Jenks names, say we should just release him, he's not going to have a job anywhere next year, etc? In answer to your question ... what's the point of bashing him? It's a message board. Some bash him. Some (one or two) praise him. And why is his facial hair annoying? Should everybody be clean cut all all times? Why are you saying that? What's the point? A lot of people bash him, only a couple praise him and the reason they're praising him is because he used to be good. Sorry man, but this is baseball, where people get paid millions to perform. You can't start making excuses for a guy who's cost us at least 3 games this year out of the closer's role. Especially not in this division.

His facial hair is extremely annoying, even when he is good.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 22, 2010 -> 10:59 AM) If I am baiting, what is the person doing who hates his goatee and wants to pull it out hair by hair. I'm standing up for Jenks who is easy fodder for criticism. Again, what do you call the guy who wants to pull out his facial hair? Why are you standing up for him? What's the point? It's not like he's your son or a relative.

QUOTE (qwerty @ Jul 22, 2010 -> 10:56 AM) No he doesn't. This is greg's way of being sarcastic. Read this again good. Yup, so much sarcasm.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 22, 2010 -> 10:49 AM) I don't know what they'll pay him, but if he doesn't get hurt, he'll have a job and be making enough money to pad his already bloated bank account. He won't get more than $4 million out on the open market given his performance so far. Go look at what Matt Capps did and then look at the contract he got. That's what Jenks will be getting.

I looked at Bautista's hit and pitch f/x charts. 22 of his 26 home runs have come on fastball type pitches (four-seam, two-seam. cutter, sinker). 3 came off a slider, 1 came off a curve. It's obvious that if you throw him off-speed stuff, he's not going to hit you. According to the pitch values, he can't hit change-ups. But he's absolutely raking against fastballs and sliders (a combined +22 runs off those).

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 22, 2010 -> 10:31 AM) Wonder if anyone has stats that support my belief that when Jenks blows a save, not only does he blow the lead, but the opposition seems to go ahead as well. He's one of t hose guys that as soon as any real damage is done, you need to pull him immediately. I don't remember him blowing the save and the game still being tied, not this year at least.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 21, 2010 -> 09:10 PM) Jose Bautista over his past 502 plate appearances - .249/.355/.570/.925, 36 HR, 62 XBH, 64 BB, 98 K Not that I'm advocating acquiring him, but there are worse options out there. People are advocating acquiring Luke Scott (myself included), but he didn't reach the majors until he was 27, and didn't have a good, full season until he was 29, and is having the best year of his career at 32. Bautista doesn't turn 30 until October. I obviously haven't done enough research on Bautista to see if this is all a fluke or if he's figured it out or semi-figured it out, but I don't completely dismiss him just because he's having the best year of his career. He's going to cost too much.

Oh god, no. Francouer is the epitome of the guy we don't want on this team. He's like a slightly better right handed version of Joe Borchard.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 22, 2010 -> 09:26 AM) Blown saves happen. Even Andrew Bailey, who has an ERA in the mid 1's and a WHIP just under 1, has 3 of them. The problem is, people use this largely BS stat to defend Bobby Jenks. Bobby Jenks shouldn't be the closer because he has an ERA over 5 and a WHIP over 1.5 and that means he's a bad pitcher, particularly considering he's a reliever. And bad pitchers can't be closers, especially when you have better choices, and we have WAY better ones. And chw42, I thought Jenks was going to get non-tendered in the off-season no matter what. He's just making the decision that much easier though. A lot of those saves that the good closers blow are one run saves.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 22, 2010 -> 10:14 AM) I have my own theory, that this is Ozzie trying to motivate Bobby and tell him to stop dicking around and start slinging it. I expect Bobbyback in a save situation very quickly and he'll probably end up keeping the job. Quite frankly, that would be a best possible scenario (Ozzie getting through to Bobby and us getting results). The guy has pitches, he just needs to stop f***ing around and get back to the basics of having 1 to 2 really really good pitches. That is my hope at least as a fan of the Sox because they need to get production out of there highly paid reliever who will clearly be long gone at the end of the season. The best thing for this bullpen is to have Bobby back and pitching like he was in June. Cause let's face it, Bobby's going to be pretty bad at anything except closing. Hell, he's not even good at closing anymore.

Who invented the save? Whoever did should get a smack to the head for coming up with such a horrible concept.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 22, 2010 -> 09:27 AM) So he has 3 blown saves. He hasnt been good this year, but he's not the awful pitcher that everyone is saying because they are upset after a loss that most people already thought we would lose. There is no perfect stat for a closer, but saves and blown saves are about as close as you can get. A closer can have a high ERA but be 100% on saves and still be very effective. No, he is awful. When you're a closer and your ERA is in the 5s, you're doing something terribly wrong. I've been saying this since April. High ERA + high WHIP = bad future. Some people brushed it off like it was nothing, like those stats had no predictive value. Look where we are now.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 22, 2010 -> 09:20 AM) LOL, actually sounds like a good name for him with the way he is pitching Booby = good Bobby = bad

Jenks is going to get non-tendered this off-season. Nobody's paying his ass $10 million. I'd rather give that money to Putz.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 22, 2010 -> 09:08 AM) In 2005, Bobby blew 2 saves out of 8 in 39 IP. In 2010 Booby has blown 2 saves in 22 attempts in 35IP. He's actually been a better closer this year. The closer is designed to get saves correct? He's on pace to blow about 4 saves this year, which is his career avg just about. You know why Blown Saves are abbreviated BS? Cause they're bulls***. Jenks didn't even get a blown save for that horrible game he had in Minnesota. Shows how accurate blown saves are don't it?

QUOTE (robinventura23 @ Jul 22, 2010 -> 07:45 AM) Are "closers by committee" ever successful? This has bad news written all over it. Stick with one guy (Putz or Thornton) and ride with it. We had to do it with Jenks on the bereavement list and it went just fine.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 21, 2010 -> 06:19 PM) Colvin has come way back to earth after his start. He wont OPS over .800, and for a corner OF'er who doesnt get on base much, thats not very good. Soto is quietly having a ridiculous season, .400 OBP with some power to boot. That .400 OBP might be due to him batting 8th a lot. But yeah, he's having a pretty good year.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 21, 2010 -> 09:09 PM) I'm not talking about the COMPOSITE/ACCUMULATED seasonal stats. I'm talking about the actual White Sox defensive line-up on the field the last couple of nights. That means Omar Vizquel and not Teahen at 3B, the best version we've ever seen of Alexei Ramirez, a confident Gordon Beckham at 2B and Andruw Jones instead of Quentin in RF. That's a very different team than April/May of 2010. We've had two aberrational games (ones with Viciedo and even Vizquel struggling, although we did win the 5 error game) with a total of 9 errors combined, but I'm sure if you look at those other 35/37 games, you'll see a tremendous difference between the two defenses. Fine... LF Pierre > Then Podsednik CF Then Rowand > Rios (this is actually very true) RF Then Dye > Jones + Quentin 3B Then Crede > Vizquel SS Alexei > Then Uribe 2B Beckham > Then Iguchi 1B Then Konerko > Konerko C Then A.J. > A.J.