Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 06:15 PM) I thought i read somewhere that he was the best defensive OF the Cardinals had. And they had some good ones. Everything I've read suggests he's average at best out there.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 06:04 PM) Bourjos, who I think makes the team as 4th OF. Is Bourjos even that good of an OF anymore? I really don't see a scenario where we have an elite defensive OF unless we go with Engel in CF & Tilson in LF, which would basically be giving up on having an offense.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 06:14 PM) An outfield of Engel/Tilson/Bourjos would be quite stout defensively No way in hell Tilson would start in CF over Engel, but regardless that might be the worst offensive OF in baseball history. You might not get 15 HRs out of that OF.

QUOTE (Sleepy Harold @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 04:54 PM) MLB Network @MLBNetwork Trade talks for Jose Quintana are reportedly heating up! @BNightengale joins #MLBTonight with the latest buzz at 6pE. For anyone interested to hear the same things we've been hearing for a couple months now. Did anyone see this interview?

QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 04:28 PM) I wouldn't think it would be that drastic of a change. Cabrera will be the same. They lose with Eaton gone but improve with Tilson in CF and I would think a better CF is more valuable than a decrease in RF. Going from Adam Eaton (2016 version) to Avi Garcia in RF is probably as big of a defensive drop as conceivably possible. Tilson may be an improvement in CF, but he's not really not that good out there. He will not come close to making up the difference in lost RF defense.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 04:26 PM) I think it is too soon to know what the Sox are going to be on defense. If Garcia is DFA'ed in ST and Cabrera becomes the everyday DH, they could have one of the better defensive OF's in baseball. Or they could with the all Garcia OF to try and tank. Too many permutations at this time to buy into what they are selling. Who is even left to play OF at that point to form "one of the better defensive OF's in baseball"?

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 07:20 AM) I feel like Martes/Tucker/Laureano/Pick is a fair deal. I think Hahn could get more if he waited but I understand why he wouldn't want to. I was going to propose that exact package or one with Reed instead of Laureano. Regardless, I think either package would be very solid from an overall talent perspective, falling somewhere between the Sale & Eaton returns. Sure, Tucker may not be the positional headliner we were dreaming of, but I honestly think there's a good chance he's a top 20 prospect by mid-season. Laureano seems to be criminally underrated and Reed would be a great buy-low candidate. And while that pick is effectively a low end #2 pick, Hostetler was able to land Hansen, Call, & Fisher after the first round in last year's draft. And I haven't even mentioned Martes who gives us another starting pitching prospect with TOR potential. There's a lot to like here, although I can see why some posters would be disappointed, especially if they don't believe Tucker's power will ever develop or if they think Martes is ultimately a reliever.

QUOTE (Soha @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 07:07 AM) I think something is going to happen too. If you follow the Pirates blogger Rum Bunter, he's been saying for a while he KNOWS the Sox want to move Quintana before the season. Bruce Levine has hinted this as well. This all makes sense and comes together. They can't come out and say it, but they clearly want to tank for Beer or one of the high school phenoms scheduled for the 2018 draft, and having Quintana on the team doesn't help that cause. And they should prioritize the future draft pick with everything they do. In other words, don't hold out on 3 deals for that little bit extra, when it can cost you a lotta bit extra come the 2018 draft if we end up picking 6th instead of 1st or 2nd. There's no other ways to get guys like this, unless you get lucky with a slightly later pick. Prospects the caliber of Seth Beer or Kris Bryant or Kyle Schwarber just don't get traded. The Sox are probably learning that a bit as they have been rebuffed in trying to get guys like Meadows, Bregman or Torres this winter. So to conclude, I think Quintana does get moved and probably for what many of us will consider a slightly disappointing return. It feels like the Sox backed themselves in to a corner here and all of MLB knows it. I agree with this. I don't think Hahn will necessarily settle, but I do think he'll take something near the bottom end of his acceptable range that some posters here may find dissapointing. Personally, I'd be ecstatic with a four player package from Houston that was headlined by Martes & Tucker. Given the depth of their system a newly available comp pick, the 3rd & 4th pieces could be incredibly valuable.

Things just might be heating up with the Astros. Phil Rogers says we have revisited traded talks with Houston. The Astros were just awarded two additional draft picks for the next draft. And finally, Bob Nightengale with the obvious Sox office front leak stating talks with divisional rival Texas are getting more serious. I'll continue to shout this, but a move prior to season start makes too much sense for both clubs. The AL West is going to be competitive and I'm not sure Houston can afford to wait to fill what appears to be a pretty big need. Meanwhile, moving Quintana before opening day greatly improves our tank efforts. I'm not sure what the holdup is here, but I'm getting more confident these teams will find a happy medium before opening day with Martes, Tucker, ++ coming back to the southside for Quintana.

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 1, 2017 -> 07:46 PM) To clarify, he was specifically asked about Beer, he didn't bring him up out of blue. What was Hostetler asked about Beer?

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 1, 2017 -> 06:37 PM) No Q puts them in top 3 pick territory. There are 2 HS guys that are very highly regarded as well. I think with Q gone this team is easily bottom three and legit threat for the #1 pick. The rotation for the first few months would be Rodon, Gonzalez, Shields, Holland, & a filler like Covey. That's an absolutely horrific rotation. And even if guys like Giolito, Lopez, & Fulmer were productive when called up, the offense & bullpen should see some important players traded away as the season progresses. This team will be bad no matter what, but I really think trading Quintana exponentially improves our chances of landing a potential future superstar like Beer in the draft.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Feb 1, 2017 -> 05:36 PM) Probably just tossed his name out since hes a college bat. Hostetler specifically mentioned Beer at SoxFest and said they've had scouting reports on him since he was 14. I wouldn't downplay their interest in him.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jan 31, 2017 -> 08:48 AM) Yeah three in the top 100, but no top 10-15 players like Moncada/Kopech. 3 guys in the 30-100 range is very different than 1 in the top 5, 1 in the top 15, etc You can't expect the Sale package for Quintana. Martes is ranked #20 & Tucker is ranked #35 by mlbpipeline. That's pretty close in value to Giolito (#12) & Lopez (#46), maybe even a little bit better. Reed was a highly regarded prospect just a year ago. If you believe in him, you're potentially getting middle of the lineup, left-handed hitter at a huge discount. The fact that he's major league ready is a huge plus, because we can actually give him a couple seasons to develop without putting undue pressure on him. The compensation pick is simply a bonus, but one that gives us more flexibility in the draft. And honestly, given how promising the early returns look from Nick Hostetler's first full draft, I'm willing to go ahead and invest in him with more picks whenever possible.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 31, 2017 -> 08:36 AM) That's why I fear that Hahn is asking for more than that which is kind of nuts if actually wants to move Q. That's been my assumption all season. My concern is that he's asking for a Sale level headliner and that's just never going to happen IMO. Something between the Sale & Eaton packages should be the goal. And I think Martes & Tucker is about even with Giolito & Lopez in terms of headliners. Reed (if the Sox believe in him) + a compensation pick is better than Dunning as the secondary pieces. I honestly think that's a pretty fair deal for both sides.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 31, 2017 -> 08:31 AM) From a surplus value standpoint, Quintana is worth roughly $133 million over the next 4 seasons Using fangraphs prospect surplus value as one way (not the only for sure) to evaluate prospect values Martes comes in at $39.00 million and Tucker comes in at $38.2 million for a total of $77 million. We are short easily 62 million in surplus value to make a deal happen I'd propose Martes + Tucker + Reed + Perez. Astros probably wouldn't do it, but it allows them to keep Paulino/Musgrove/Whitley/Fisher in their system How did you calculate that surplus value? And how much of that is coming in 2017 & 2018 when's Quintanta's production will be completely worthless for us? We don't have break even in projected surplus value to come out and ahead here. Also, I think Jimmy's deal makes a lot of sense if you get a quality 3rd piece like Paulino, Reed, Fisher, etc. plus that compensation pick. That's a lot of talent and I am very skeptical you will ever do significantly better than that. I have a strong feeling that the international free agency rule changes will result in big market teams hoarding prospects moreso than they do currently. Prospect values will likely only increase from this point forward IMO.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 31, 2017 -> 07:51 AM) There's no way Martes is off the table. That's a load of crap. He was offered for Archer. I talked to some Astros fans and they think that Archer thing was a leak and Astros prefer Quintana. Well I hope you're right and honestly thought Luhnow would be high on Quintana given his focus on analytics. Having said that, I really thought a Quintana trade to the Astros would ultimately happen if no one else jumped in with substantial offers and I'm pretty surprised it's January 31st and Q is still on our roster. You would think if Luhnow was willing to give up Martes & Tucker he would have offered them by now and a deal would already be done.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 31, 2017 -> 07:23 AM) I think something like Tucker, Martes, 3rd piece, 75th pick is fair. I'm not sure Rick Hahn agrees or this would probably be done. I agree that would be fair, but the newest rumor suggests Martes is off the table. Just not sure what to believe anymore with Luhnow, because he seems like the type of GM who would likely overvalue his prospects. But to your point, I would hope Hahn would have taken that deal already as long as the 3rd piece was pretty solid.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 31, 2017 -> 06:40 AM) Trading Musgrove doesn't hurt their pitching depth since yhey are receiving a pitcher to step in at the top of the rotation. The Astros willy likely have a rotation of Keuchel, McCullers, McHugh, Morton, & Musgrove or Fiers, with Martes & Paulion at AAA to start the season. Dealing one of Martes or Musgrove does not hurt their depth. I think everyone here can see the real problem for them and that's not having a reliable TOR starter. Quintana is exactly what they need right now and his contract aligns perfectly with their competive window. I honestly have no idea what Luhnow is thinking, but I have a feeling he's going to be desperate for a TOR starter as we get closer to the deadline.

Extending Q for two more years at $25M per while guaranteeing his two options years does not make him a more valuable trade asset. Teams are simply not going to pay us extra for a 5th & 6th year at market value, because god only knows what kind of pitcher Quintana will be at that time. As for us, why commit $25M for a 32 year old starting pitcher in 2021 when we should have younger pitchers we'd like to extend at that point including Rodon (unlikely I know), Giolito, Kopech, Lopez, etc? The strength of our system right now is pitching prospects and you got to have faith in enough of them panning out. Any significant financial resources should go towards addressing our offense.

The Cubs aren't trading for Quintana, at least not at this point in time. IMO, this thing comes down to three teams: Houston, Pittsburgh, & Atlanta. If Martes is really off limits, then I don't consider the Astros serious players. I believe the Braves are actually interested in Q, but I'm guessing any deal would need to be on their terms. That leaves the Pirates and I think they're the one team that might blink as we approach spring training. The team has a lot of talent, but desperately needs to add a TOR starter if they want even a solid chance of competing for a wild card spot. Quintana's contract is a perfect match for them and allows them to pivot in a year or two if things don't work out as well as they hope. A deal just makes too much sense for them and ultimately I think they cave. If Meadows & Bell are truly untouchables, then I could see a middle ground being Glasnow, Keller, Newman, & Craig. Hahn stated very clearly at SoxFest that it was too early to focus on specific needs when trading our assets and I think the package above would be way too much talent to pass up on.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 29, 2017 -> 11:40 PM) Even without Bregman, Martes, and Musgrove available, I think there could still be a deal that makes sense with the Astros... but it would require their 5-6 next best prospects, and I just cannot see the wisdom in completely burning the farm to the ground like that. I just can't see Lunhow doing it. You're right, something like Tucker, Paulino, Perez, Reed, & Fisher or Whitley would work, but like you said, I can't see the Astros giving up five top 120 prospects in one deal.

I'm probably one of the highest here regarding an Astros deal, but no way in hell am I making a deal without Martes + Tucker as the headliners (assuming Bregman is off limits). If Martes is truly off limits for Quintana, then I think that Archer rumor is complete BS. Seems like the Astros aren't serious about landing a TOR starter if they have this many untouchables.

MLBpipeline released their list of best tools. Some White Sox made the list: Fastest Baserunner Runner-up: Moncada Best Fastball Winner: Kopech Best Curveball Winner: Giolito Best Slider Runner-up: Kopech

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jan 29, 2017 -> 11:45 AM) Yep. Stupid thing to say, even in jest... just showed his immaturity. Are you actually being serious right now?

Two interest tweets from Dan Hayes: Also, some interesting nuggets from a SSS article: http://www.southsidesox.com/2017/1/29/1442...y-soxfest-recap