Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 8, 2017 -> 03:16 PM) I never mentioned Benitendi. I'm just mentioning Moncada. Yes, the cost is sunk but it's like they paid in advance. Most teams wouldn't trade Yoan Moncada away even for Chris Sale had they invested the money in him, he wasn't a big flop and is maybe a year, if that, from contrubting, and many evaluators see him as a future star. Who knows, maybe if Benitendi struggled in 30 ABs and Moncada looked really good during his September call up, Benitendi is a White Sox. It could be Moncada being questionable at best to be a contributor in 2017 was what DD was looking at. He's never met a prospect he couldn't trade, and this trade pretty much proved it. You never mentioned Benintendi, but by your logic he should be less valuable because he cost only $3.6M while Moncada cost $62M. You said the Red Sox were effectively paying $62M on top of Sale's salary. That's the way you said they should look at it. However, if they traded Benintendi, they would have only paid the 3.6M on top of Sale's salary. Given they're generally considered similar caliber prospects, your logic would suggest Benintendi was the far less valuable player for the Red Sox.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 8, 2017 -> 02:52 PM) I said this a few pages back, but how long would people have been willing to keep negotiating with Boston over this deal, and would they have been OK with it collapsing because of asking too much if that had been the case? Keep in mind, we had two other deals collapse over the winter at the ownership level. Look, I'm good with what Hahn landed for Sale. I just think it's fair to point out we may have left a little bit on the table. To your point, there are other factors at play with these types of discussions. I'm willing to give Hahn the benefit of the doubt here that he made the right decision on how much caving was acceptable from his original ask. And I think it's very probable the Sox were higher on Basabe & Diaz than many of the national publications. Having said that, I do think DD would have given up a bit more if we pushed it just a little bit harder.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 8, 2017 -> 02:42 PM) The value is they paid $62 million for the cheap years of service. If he turns into a star, they re-coup their investment easily. They get Sale for 3 years. To re-coup the $100 million can be done, but the overall surplus value is going to go down if Moncada is great. I really doubt other teams would have traded him had they made the same investment, but a lot of things lined up. Sale is cheap and great, and DD wasn't around when Moncada was added to their organization. They paid $62M for Moncada because that's what the going rate was at the time for a potential cost-controlled superstar in an unconstrained market. I'm still not understanding why you think that makes him more valuable Benintendi, who was a victim of a constrained marketplace like the vast majority of prospects. And below is a comment from DD on how they evaluated the potential trade. They completely ignored sunk costs and focused exclusively on future production vs. future costs. They actually felt that in a vacuum 12+ cost-controlled years of Moncada & Kopech was more valuable than three years of Chris Sale. However, they were willing to forgoe some projected surplus value because of how well he fit into their competitive window. That's the proper way of evaluating a decision like this. Worrying about your cost-basis in asset is not.

QUOTE (bmags @ Mar 8, 2017 -> 02:07 PM) Diaz continues to be an interesting part of this deal, if only because from what we know it was the sox identifying him and saying "DIAZ WE NEED DIAZ". now, he could have just been a part of a list of players as a 4th, we don't know that. But from all accounts he was chosen by us. Diaz was 100% a guy we targeted. There was an article about why the Sox targeted him, but this quote from the Boston Globe also confirms it. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglob...b8LLLP/amp.html

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 8, 2017 -> 01:23 PM) You can look at it another way. The 3 years on Sale's contract cost them an extra $62 million. So he is a $30+ million a year guy in reality now. The price for the bargain vanishes. Between what the paid Mocada and what the owe Sale, Boston shells out $100 million for 3 years of service. I do have a feeling he wouldn't have been available had Dombrowski been the one who signed him. You can look at it that way, but it would be a flawed way of evaluating things. The $62M was a sunk cost and should have no impact on Moncada's value. The only two factors that drive his valuation are projected future production vs. expected future costs. He's incredibly valuable because he has a chance of becoming a cost-controlled superstar. The same logic applies Bentendi and most other elite prospects. By your logic, Benintendi is less valuable because the Red Sox were able to acquire him in a market with significant financial contraints (i.e. the draft). The reality here is that Moncada is not more valuable than Benintendi simply because he was fortunate enough to exploit a loophole for Cuban free agents and get compensated for his actual worth. The example above should just scream out how flawed this way of thinking is.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Mar 8, 2017 -> 11:05 AM) This is the hidden excess value in Moncada that I think some tend to forget. Boston ate 62M between the contract, bonus and penalties to sign Moncada. You can bet DD pointed that out to Hahn during negotiations. Imo, Moncada's talent and 62M invested arguably give him the value of two top fifty prospects. He may have pointed it out, but it should have made no difference in terms of valuation. Moncada isn't more valuable than Benintendi simply because the Red Sox paid more money to acquire him in the first place. The original purchase price of an asset should have no impact on its future value.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Mar 8, 2017 -> 11:03 AM) You have to face it that Boston was not going to include another top 15 organizational prospect after Moncada, Kopech and Basabe I don't buy this at all. DD literally accepted Hahn's counter-offer of Basabe & Diaz instead of Devers on the spot. He didn't even feel the need to run this by the rest of his front office. That screams Hahn could have probably have gotten a better 4th piece than Diaz if he pushed a bit harder. Could he have gotten Devers or Groome? Hell no, but the Red Sox have plenty of prospects in their system that are better than Diaz. And let me be clear, I'm not complaining about the trade. Moncada & Kopech may be the highest upside positional & pitching prospects in the minors respectively. I think Hahn did very well with the trade, but I simply don't buy this was the most DD was willing give up based on comments DD himself has made.

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Mar 8, 2017 -> 10:14 AM) I don't think it makes sense to sign Glennon and then draft a QB at 3. Makes way more sense to me to grab the best player available at 3 and then grab a QB you like in the 2nd or the 3rd. But the signing of Glennon really should be paired with drafting a QB. Agree with all of this

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 8, 2017 -> 09:11 AM) What makes people think this was available? Secondly, how long would you have been willing to wait out the Red Sox to try to get this? It essentially took from the trading deadline to the GM meetings to arrive at this deal. Based on what Hahn & DD have revealed, they didn't spend much time negotiating the pieces after Moncada & Kopech. The conversation basically went from Devers to Basabe & Diaz. That's a huge drop-off in asking price. DD didn't even have to ask the rest of his front office if they were ok with giving up Basabe & Diaz. To me, that suggests the Sox could have done a little better on the back-end of the deal if they pushed a bit harder. My guess is they didn't want to risk the Red Sox backing out on including Moncada and were much higher than on Basabe & Diaz than most national publications (which Hahn's commentary suggests).

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Mar 8, 2017 -> 08:19 AM) That bench is missing whoever isn't starting behind the dish that day (Soto/Narvaez). Also gotta factor in who may be DHing (could be Davidson). See my other post. My guess is we'll be using a rotating DH with guys like Abreu & Avi getting some time there, but with Davidson the primary guy the rest of the time. That leaves three bench spots on top of Soto.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Mar 8, 2017 -> 08:07 AM) I'd love to see Liriano win a spot over any of those guys. He was a top 100 prospect not too long ago and is still quite young. I think he has more potential than the rest of the options. He probably has the most potential, but I'd rather try and sneak him through to AAA if he's not going to get enough playing time. And right now, it seems like Tilson & Avi will have CF & RF locked up for the first couple months (if healthy). Given he is having a tough spring and is coming off some concussion issues, he'd probably benfit from some regular playing time down in Charlotte and potentially be a call up closer to June or July depending on how the OF is shaping out.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Mar 8, 2017 -> 06:34 AM) Actually, I think they'll likely keep one of Garcia/Sanchez instead of both so I'll put him on. Hahn did specifially mention more playing time for him, Saladino and Sanchez after the Lawrie release. Honestly, I think there is room for all three. Right now, it seems like our bench will likely be Sanchez, Bourjos, L. Garcia, & Davidson. I just don't see who could beat out these guys. Liriano & Asche are the only real threats IMO and I think they'd need to have huge spring trainings to overtake them. Hayes is the only other possibility, but he can start 2017 in AAA, so why not give Davidson an extended look in the majors being discarding him.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Mar 8, 2017 -> 06:18 AM) Agreed. He can very easily be beaten out this Spring. Who do you think beats him out?

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Mar 8, 2017 -> 01:03 AM) Where does he play? QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Mar 8, 2017 -> 05:47 AM) I don't think that's true at all. He might have a decent shot of making the team but I don't think he's a lock by any means. DH, 3B, & 1B. Like it or not, he's probably making the team because he's out of options. The Sox will likely do whatever it takes to preserve depth, so guys like him, Sanchez, L. Garcia, Ynoa, etc. will get first cracks at spots, although I'd expect Davidson to get a very short leash. Delmonico is a similar player positionally (weaker at 3B though), but has a left-handed and projects as the better hitter in the the majors IMO. I'm not Davidson believer by any means, but I think we're better off giving him a two month addition and allowing Delmonico a bit more time in AAA. Of all the fringe, near major league ready prospects in the system, Delmonico is the one guy who I think has a real chance at developing into more than just a bench piece and I see no reason to rush him at the moment.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Mar 7, 2017 -> 11:08 AM) I'd rather have Moncada over Robles at this point. Moncada has shown he can handle AA pitching and solid power. Robles is further away in his development, but has yet to show much in the way of power I like both prospects, but given a choice I'll take Moncada There shouldn't even be a debate, Moncada is hands down the better prospect than Robles IMO. But Lopez & Dunning are significantly better prospects than Basabe & Diaz. I'd take the Red Sox deal simply because Moncada offers the best mix of ceiling and floor, but I definitely think an argument could be made for the Nationals package overall being better if you're really high on Robles.

QUOTE (bmags @ Mar 7, 2017 -> 11:02 AM) This is funny now. When a deal surrounding Robles/Giolito/Lopez was being discussed immediately preceding the trade, people were very against trading for a 19 year old who had not shown much power as the prime position player. What's funny now?

QUOTE (hi8is @ Mar 7, 2017 -> 11:01 AM) They may have also known Washington was willing to part with many of those prices for Eaton and didn't have anything better lined up for him. Definitely, they may have seen it as their way to maximize the overall return for Sale & Eaton.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Mar 7, 2017 -> 10:50 AM) Red Sox were not going to bid against themselves and include Devers for Sale fully knowing that a Moncada/Kopech headlined deal was not going to be beat Washington likely offered something along the lines of Robles + Giolito as a headlined deal plus Dunning. Sox preferred the Moncada/Kopech and then suggested Basabe and Diaz to round it out Sox then quickly flipped Eaton for Giolito + Lopez + Dunning for Eaton as the Nationals were only willing to part with Robles for Sale The Nationals supposedly offered all four of Robles, Giolito, Dunning, & Lopez for Sale. That's a huge package and one you could make an argument for being better overall the Red Sox's package. I think it's pretty obvious the Sox wanted Moncada and were willing to take lesser second & third pieces as long as they got a second stud in the deal.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Mar 7, 2017 -> 09:24 AM) Nick Delmonico is having himself a nice spring. I'd start him at third in Triple-A and prepare him in the event that Frazier is dealt. Younger than Davidson and also a left-handed bat. Huge Delmonico fan, although I'd probably give him a look in LF. Not sure he can stick at 3B from what I read.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Mar 6, 2017 -> 02:08 PM) just sitting here waiting while my Switch Zelda bundle sits in Gamestop online purchase purgatory :/ The Switch is awesome for what it's trying to be. If you're a gamer that needs PS4 Pro level graphics, you'll definitely be disappointed, but if you're looking for home console quality experiences on the go then you'll probably be thrilled. I highly recommend getting a Pro controller for at home play. As for Zelda, it really might be the best game in the series. I am absolutely shocked at just how good it really is. It's feels a lot more like the NES original than the LttP/Ocarina games though. And honestly, that's a good thing IMO. The series has always been great, but it was in desperation need of a re-image and damn did they deliver. Baring some major surprise (or Mario Oddessy just killing it), this should easily be 2017's GOTY.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Mar 5, 2017 -> 05:38 PM) He looked solid not blowing it by guys but worked ahead and not too much hard contact against a decent spring lineup for the diamond backs. Delmonico put s charge into one in the 9th, hit off the top of the wall in center for a triple. I still Delmonico is a major leaguer, just not sure where he fits on the field.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Mar 3, 2017 -> 02:14 PM) IMO depth is a bit overrated, I'd much rather have a top-heavy system than a deep one that is lacking at the top. This 100%.

#3 seems pretty fair to me.

And while it may be a small consideration, I'll add that this type of signing would create some positive PR for the rebuild. The Cubs signing Soler was a big deal to their fanbase and this type of move would be no different for us. Let me be clear here, Hahn should not be making moves simply to appease the fans, but if you're looking for reason why the Sox may not continue to operate in the same fashion it always has, this is just one small reason of many and ultimately all ties back to rebuilding. Operational norms must change during a rebuild because short-term goals are now radically different. We shouldn't expect the same old Sox anymore.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 2, 2017 -> 08:06 PM) Hey Donald Trump could become President too, but I am not holding my breath for that moment either. FIFY. Honestly though, it's pretty clear the Sox have historically allocated more resources to their major league team than their minor league system. That's going to change under a rebuild, so I'm not sure why you're completely ruling it out. I mean the biggest contract in franchise is a Cuban free agent signing. I don't see money being an issue here. If it's about the penalties they'll incure, I think you're overrating those. Robert is a stud and would instantly add an elite positional talent to a system desperate for one.