Chicago White Sox

Entering the offseason, I thought the Pirates could be the team most interested in Quintana (and actually prefer him to Sale) due to his salary and years of control. They also make a ton of sense as a trade partner because they have a near major league ready OF in Meadows who can headline a deal plus a ton of prospect depth to offer a quality package. If they plan to keep McCutchen, this rumor might actually make some sense and would be great news for us.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 12:15 PM) Yes. In my opinion: |-------1-----2----3---4-------5----6----7--8---| 1.) What Yankees fans think Q's worth 2.) What the Yankees think Q's worth 3.) Eaton return 4.) What Q is actually worth 5.) What the Sox think Q's worth 6.) Sale return 7.) What the numbers think Q's worth 8.) What Sox fans think Q's worth Lol, this is spot on. I'd happily take something frameworked like the Eaton deal, but with a better 3rd piece and maybe a lottery ticket. Not sure the Yankees would be willing to do that, but it would be a nice return IMO.

We need to stop using regular season WAR & surplus value as the be all end all. Sale is definitely worth more than Quintana regardless of those factors. If you're expecting a Sale type package for Q, prepared to be dissapointed. That's not to say he's not incredibly valuable, but when I see theoretical packages like "Torres, Frazier, ++" I can't help but think some posters have completely unrealistic expectations.

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 08:41 PM) I agree. I think the Astros will budge. The rumor they were interested in Duffy.. the leak that the Yankees are interested in Q.. it makes sense someone is trying to gain some leverage. Yup, the Duffy leak also fills the bill. Hahn & Luhnow are playing poker right and seeing who budges first. I find it almost impossible to believe that in this market Quintana will still be on the Sox's roster come opening day, and at the same time, I find it equally improbable that the Astros enter the 2017 season without adding a legit TOR starter. The pairing just makes too much sense and I think we'll some compromise as we get closer to the new year.

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 08:29 PM) I would much rather him traded this offseason so that we can close this damn tease of a thread. Hahn isn't stupid, this market is about as good as it gets for selling starting pitching. I honestly think the Sox & Astros are both holding their ground right now, but one or both of these teams will budge at some point. The reality is there are only so many teams that are desperate for a TOR starter and even fewer that have the assets to get a deal done. At much as we like to believe that Hahn has all the leverage, Luhnow is not going to bid against himself and pay some ridiculous price. The Sox & Astros really need each other IMO and I think both sides will eventually reach a compromise.

Robles for Robertson is not happening. Honestly, I'm going to trust raBBit on this and believe his market is weak. In that case, move Jones now assuming his market is there and let Robertson rebuild his value.

This is exactly what we needed, a second team to serve as a perceived threat to the Astros. I still don't buy the Yankees giving up what it would take to get Quintana, but perhaps they feel like they have enough positional prospect depth to move a couple guys for a legit TOR starter and then use their financial means to plug any remaining holes in their everyday lineup. Regardless, anything that puts pressure on the Astros is a good thing.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 18, 2016 -> 08:15 AM) Would you take Bregman, Tucker, Reed, one of their highly ranked pitching prospects and one more prospect for both Quintana and Frazier? If you couldn't get Bregman for Sale, you're not getting him for Quintana. And adding Frazier doesn't change that.

Realistically, what teams have both the need for a TOR starter and the currency to pull a trade off? Houston Dodgers Yankees Rockies Pirates Braves Rangers That's seven potential teams and I'm not sure the Rangers could pull off such a trade without hurting their major league roster. I don't buy the Braves being interested in Quintana at the likely cost. The Pirates could easily pull off a trade, but it would be an all-in type move for them which seems unlikely. The Yankees & Dodgers both seem hesitant to move any of their top end prospects. We're really stuck with Houston and potentially the Rockies, although there have been no rumors about them targeting TOR starters. I can see why we're currently in a standstill. It will be hard to get the Astros to budge without a second serious team in the mix. Hopefully one of the teams I listed above is just playing things cool and waiting for their moment to strike, because otherwise it could be a while before Quintana is moved IMO.

We're coming off a 78 win team and just traded Chris Sale & Adam Eaton. Those guys combined for 11.2 WAR last year and will be replaced by Derek Holland & Charlie Tilson or Rymer Liriano. We will also get the benefit of starting the season with Big Game James Shields and his 6.01 FIP. I won't rule out anything because only a sith deals in absolutes, but the odds of us starting 20-10 next year is about as good as Deadpool making a post without mentioning the Cubs.

QUOTE (Bighurt52235 @ Dec 17, 2016 -> 11:28 AM) I guess I missed what happened to his 6/68 contract. He opted out of his original contract and into arbitration. He then proceeded to agree to a measly amount more money.

QUOTE (Moncada @ Dec 17, 2016 -> 10:05 AM) If nothing gets moving today then I have a really strong feeling that nothing happens until January Why?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 16, 2016 -> 10:58 PM) But Hahn is the master of negotiation...and what more education can he have? Law degree, MBA and ? Do you really dislike Hahn this much because of some friend who "knew" him at Harvard?

If I had to do a top 30 today: 1. Moncada 2. Giolito 3. Kopech 4. Lopez 5. Collins 6. Fulmer 7. Burdi 8. Hansen 9. Basabe 10. Dunning 11. Adams 12. Call 13. Fisher 14. Stephens 15. Nunez 16. Michalczewski 17. Adolfo 19. Martinez 20. Engel 21. Curbelo 22. Flores 23. Tilson 24. Guerrero 25. Clark 26. Alfaro 27. Peter 28. Danish 29. Solorzano 30. Schnurbusch What's interesting is I couldn't find room for about a dozen prospects that would have made top 30 lists in recent years. And there are still so few Latin American signings cracking these lists...hopefully that should change in the near future.

Robertson for Stevenson and a lottery ticket works for me.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 16, 2016 -> 07:19 PM) For some reason Danks was a huge scapegoat on this board, kind of the reason for Sox rotten-ness according to the fans. Fans on this board despised him I guess cause he made a lot of money and didn't earn it cause of injury. It's always amazed me how fans get mad at guys who make the money and suck. If it wasn't Danks it's somebody else getting the money and not earning it. I don't care if Jerry loses some money here and there. He's still going to charge exorbitant prices for parking and hot dogs and everything else. Danks was despised more than Robin and I don't get that at all. Like I said, year before last he was good the second half. I mean there was no outcry to get rid of Shields and he was miserable. We've also had so many bad relievers and spot starters the last few years. You need to step up your troll game son.

We are 100% a top 5 system right now, not even a debate IMO. A Quintana trade should push us to #1 or #2 overall.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Dec 16, 2016 -> 05:02 PM) Because of his high K-rates and tools over results. I did hear one scout/analyst who said Moncada has a similar swing to Bryant, and Bryant was a high strikeout rate guy in the minors (28.6% in AAA) and even his rookie season in the majors (30.6%), but lowered it to a ton for his MVP season (22%). Said if Moncada can do that, then he's pretty much a 5 plus-tool guy. Moncada put up wRC+ in the 150s range at both A+ & AA. That is the definition of results. If people want to overreact to a handful of major league at-bats (when he had no business being up in the first place) more power to them.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Dec 16, 2016 -> 04:50 PM) I think a lot of this is based on the fact that MLB Pipeline thinks Moncada and Gio are top 3 prospects. I would bet Fangraphs, BA, BP would all have Moncada somewhere closer to 10, and Gio closer to 20-25. Why in the world would Moncada drop to #10?

I've probably said this a half dozen over the past month, but I still think he ends up with the Astros. Dick Allen mentioned it, but Luhnow is incredibly stats-oriented and would have think Quintana is one of the more valuable starters in baseball. I can't imagine a prospect like Martes or Tucker would hold up a deal. Now, I could see Musgrove being an issue because he could very well have an impact on 2017. Regardless, I think the Astros have too deep of a system for us not to find a happy medium with them. That being said, Martes & Tucker are musts in any deal.

QUOTE (FT35 @ Dec 16, 2016 -> 01:38 PM) Exactly! No one is saying anything other than...hmmm. It's almost just pointing out the irony that the only 2 players traded (so far) were the ones who were most outspoken against management. Not just Drakegate, but they seemed to clash many times and publically. No one is dumb here, the quality of the site has not dropped--nothing is sad. Just a group of people discussing their team--pointing out a thought. Certain threads aren't for everyone--there are many that I pass on and some that draw me into that particular thought. I apologize to those who thought ill will of those of us who responded to the thought. Intentions were pure. The two players traded so far were also arguably our two most valuable assets. There is no conspiracy here and the idea that our front office would fake a rebuild in order to trade two guys they didn't like is beyond f***ing stupid.

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Dec 15, 2016 -> 09:41 PM) Texas talking to EE. Hopefully an incentive for the Astros to pony up for Q. I'm all for Texas getting him.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Dec 15, 2016 -> 05:42 PM) Im not a GM so I couldnt possibly have first hand knowledge of any offer or non offer. Everything is entirely speculation. Which is why the entire post (which people keep somehow misinterpreting) was based on "Well see how this all goes, but there is definitely a chance that the "rebuild" was being used to distract from the real agenda." Notice the word "chance". No GM is going to pretend he's rebuilding in order to move players he has personal issues with. The whole notion is ridiculous.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 12:55 AM) The only problem is that the only one of those outfielders who can be projected to (if they hit their ceiling) be a 3-4+ WAR player would be Basabe. It seems all of those other outfielders have limitations in one area or another...to the point where they need to get back at least one more Robles-esque player to make many feel extremely confident about the future of the outfield. It's way too early to assign a ceiling to guys like Call & Fisher. They may not have flashy tools, but other organizations have had great success drafting pure baseball guys like them and ending up with 3-4 WAR type players. We also have some very toolsy OF prospects in Adolfo, Rodriguez, & Schnurbusch. While they each have huge bust potential, all those guys have big ceilings. Right now, Basabe probably has the best mix of floor & ceiling of our OF prospects in the low minors, but let's not undersell the talent level of these guys. Having said that, none of these guys prevent us from adding more OF prospects, especially elite ones like Justin Tucker.

Any Astros deal has to include Martes & Tucker as the headliners. After that, we'd need one more top 100 type, preferably a bat like Reed or Fisher. I'd also try to get Stubbs included by adding Jennings. IMO, that's a very fair deal for both sides and one that doesn't really compromise Houston's ability to compete in any way next year.