Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 10, 2016 -> 12:20 PM) Happy this trade didn't get completed. Why? Do you mind elaborating?

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 10, 2016 -> 12:04 PM) The problem for him is there is no other target. Atleast one not as openly available as Q. Which is why I think a deal still ultimately happens. As long as our ask is reasonable, which this rumored proposal suggests, I think Luhnow eventually caves.

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 10, 2016 -> 11:48 AM) Luhnow is a prospect hoarder. I dont see a trade going down with the Astros. He gave up a huge package for Giles, he'll eventually give up some prospects for a TOR starter. I think he's just playing hardball hoping the price drops a bit on Quintana or another target.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Dec 10, 2016 -> 11:00 AM) Peter Gammons ‏@pgammo now6 seconds ago When Astros askewd on Jose Quintana, Chisox asked 3 names:Francis Martes, Kyle Tucker, Joe Musgrove Replace Musgrove with Reed & a lottery ticket and I'll take that deal. The Astros would be crazy to say no unless they can get Archer for less.

The Sox will definitely make a bunch more moves between now and opening day. I'm confident that Quintana, Robertson, Frazier, & Jennings will all be dealt in the next month. I'm far less certain on Jones, Melky, & Gonzalez. I think the price for Jones will be sky high and they might feel that making him our closer in 2017 will help us realize that value. I don't see there being a huge market for Melky right now and he might be better served as a trade deadline chip. And assuming Quintana goes, I could see them less inclined to move Gonzalez right away. The one guy I don't think gets moved this offseason is Abreu. His value would increase significantly if he put up 2H 2016 numbers in 1H 2017. So overall, I see us making another four or five trades between now and opening day.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 11:24 PM) Been watching videos of Martes. So are we still thinking Martes/Tucker/Reed? How do you guys feel about Martes moving forward? #2-3 starter? I think that's the deal if a trade happens. They're also looking for a left-handed reliever, so I could Jennings being added to the deal with a lesser piece coming back our way. Their system is so deep that we get a really interesting prospect outside their top 10. As for Martes, he definitely has #2 upside. Obviously you never know pitching prospects, but adding him to a group that always includes Giolito, Kopech, Lopez, Fulmer, Adams, Hansen, & Stephens would be incredible.

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 11:08 PM) I'm with iamshack, f*** Houston. Sounds like they really don't want to get a TOR starter. Guarantee Tampa would require Tucker for Archer as well. Maybe it's posturing on guys teams are asking for in deal or maybe it's prospect hoarding. They could have the '27 Yankees lineup and still fall short late in the year with that pitching. Good luck selling that to your fanbase, Luhnow. Give it some time. Luhnow can't be this stupid. He is a TOR starter away from having a complete roster and I'm sure the Red Sox getting Sale puts pressure on him to fill this last major hole. While I'm certain he won't move Bregman at this point, I just can't see the logic of making Tucker an untouchable. He's too far out to be considered a key part of this young core that has a four year window. Quintana just makes too much sense for them IMO. Right now I think it's simply posturing on both sides and Hahn has much less pressure to budge first after making some incredible trades already.

The Sox aren't trading Quintana to Astros without getting Tucker back IMO. I personally think this is just posturing so Luhnow can eventually tell Hahn "fine, fine, I can't give you Bregman but I can do something with Tucker". At some point I see this trade getting done. Given their situation, a TOR starter is just too valuable to pass on over a prospect 2+ years out.

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 10:42 PM) Houston saying that Tucker is nearly untouchable. Who specifically is saying this?

QUOTE (daggins @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 08:30 PM) If i'm Rick Hahn and I have a legit shot at signing Machado or Harper I am on that 100 times out of 100. If I'm Jerry Reinsdorf and I'm negotiating a multi-hundred million TV deal and I can instantly buy interest in my team by signing a superstar free agent then I'm going to my best to land such a player.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 08:22 PM) No. Wrong franchise. I'm not even sure the Cubs will pay for 2018 free agents. They'll likely pay their own guys (Bryant, Rizzo, etc), but smart money is against paying mega-contracts. Why do you bring up the Cubs in literally every thread? Their free agency plans have no bearing on ours.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 05:30 PM) I think Jones is a very good set-up man. But for his career he has 3 saves and 18 blown saves. Now as some have noted, saves can be a misleading statistic. But saves versus blown saves may be telling. There are certain relief pictures who can be great set-up men but wilt when they come in w the game on the line. Jones may be in that category. I think you need revisit the definition of "blown save".

I'd definitely look into buying low on Kevin Plawecki. His bat has been horrific at the major league level, but he hit pretty well in an extended stint at AAA last year. More importantly, I think he can be an average defender and a very good framer. Not sure what they'd be looking for, but he'd make a lot of sense for us in a rebuilding season IMO.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 11:55 PM) Don't forget though, these top 100 rankings still have to be updated. Heard on the radio today that Giolito and Moncada probably drop somewhere to top 15-20. Kopech and Lopez probably move up to that same area. So the Sox could end up being more like the Yankees current rankings where they have 4 players ranked between #15-#22. No chance in hell Moncada drops that much because of 20 major league at-bats. That is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. He'll be top 5 no matter what. I do agree on Giolito though because of a loss of velocity in the 2nd half.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 06:43 AM) I guess it just makes me gag to have 2/5ths of our rotation and 40% of our budget be the great San Diego padres rotation. I feel ya, but if Ross regains form he can be an incredibly valuable trade chip. And honestly, if the Sox were smart, they'd sell players like this on their ability to keep pitchers healthy and productive. Whether it's Ross or someone else, we should be able to convince a guy or two that we can offer them an environment that other teams can't.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 06:36 AM) Ross was demanding 10 mill... if he goes to us he will need to come down. How about Chris colabello? Why can't we pay him $10M. We'll have plenty of financial flexibity to add a piece or two like him.

Out of the seven players we acquired, three of them will be ready at some point next year. Giolito & Lopez should be able to step into the rotation immediately, although it's very possible they aren't up until some point in May or whenever the date is to get that extra year of team control. Moncada needs more seasoning and will certainly not be up until that same date. I'm super excited to follow all three of these guys next year. I find it fascinating that in year 1 of our rebuild, we'll already have three young, high ceiling starters in our rotation. That alone makes 60% of games watchable to me. A dynamic middle infield of Anderson & Moncada should keep the rest of the games at least somewhat interesting. I fully acknowledge that I'm a diehard fan who is excited to watch young players develop, while most casual fans only care about winning. But you know what, who the f*** cares? Attendance & TV ratings don't matter in a rebuild, all we should care about is developing a young core that can lead to sustainable success. And that's exactly what these first two moves are setting us up for.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 11:34 PM) I guess people forget about Luis Basbae who has the potential to have 5 tools? He will have the speed, defense, and power for sure I think people also forgot how good this past draft class was and that we're finally bearing fruits from our Latin American operations. Our A-Ball outfields will likely consist of Basabe, Call, Fisher, Adolfo, Rodriguez, & Schnurbusch. While none of those guys are top 100 prospects, they collectively represent quite a bit of talent. And there are plenty of other interesting positional prospects in the low minors like Nunez, Cruz, Curbelo, & Zangari. Anyways, my point is simply that the cupboard isn't nearly as barren as some here are making it out to be. Obviously we still need to add some guys who are closer to the show if we want to accelerate this rebuild, but we're finally starting to see some real positional depth in the lower minors.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 10:46 PM) Don't get me wrong, I love Nate and I think he's awesome......but I don't think he has the trade value that we want to think he does. How is he different than Ken Giles?

Hahn is being smart about this. The Astros are desperate for a TOR starter and the only quality options are Quintana & Archer, who the Rays may be hesitant to trade coming off a poor season. Might as well hold on our ground for a day or two and see if they panic and offer up Bregman. If not, they still have more enough talent to get a deal done IMO. I still think the Astros end up getting him.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 07:29 PM) Just got out of work. Wow. SS2K5 sure s***ted up this thread huh? You absolutely take the best package of talent you can get when you are rebuilding. Worrying about not acquiring position prospects in the first freaking off-season of a multi-year rebuild is asinine. Anyhow, this is an amazing return. Huge overpay for Eaton. I might be more excited for Lopez than Giolito at this point. Speaking of Giolito, if there's anyone that straighten him out, it's the White Sox. Also was a big fan of Dunning in college. High floor on him. Could be a middle of the rotation arm in not too long. I think Hahn extracted more value in this trade than in the Sale deal. This post perfectly sums up my thoughts. I was mildly disappointed with the Sale trade, but this one is absolutely incredible. As for this apparent lack of positions players, we still have multiple assets that can be moved between now and the coming deadline. Quintana will likely be moved shortly and could land multiple high-end position playing prospects himself. Jones is an incredibly valuable trade that could land two guys in the top 100. Frazier should land at last one top 100 guy. On top of that, we have wild cards in Abreu & Robertson. All it takes is for one team to value these guys higher than mosf and we might get a solid return for them. If not, hold them until the deadline and let them rebuild their value. We should also be able to get some lower end prospects for Jennings, Cabrera, & Gonzalez. So after we trade the majority of guys I listed above, we'll be out of almost all our large payroll commitments. That means we can be major players for Cuban & Asian free agents who are exempt from signing pools. We'll also be terrible and secure high draft picks and bonus pools. That's not to mention we'll have some roster space available to take reclamation projects and hope to spin at the trade deadline for more talent. There are literally endless ways to add more position players between now and 2019, including what should be an incredible free agent class for bats. Honestly, I'm not sure how anyone could be upset right now. The front office is literally doing exactly what everyone asked for which is picking a direction and committing to it 100%. Right now, it should be all celebrations for White Sox fans.

QUOTE (shipps @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 01:07 PM) George Ofman ‏@georgeofman 4m4 minutes ago Sox and Nats talking Quintana/Eaton package. Let's we where this goes. Don't buy it unless they're willing to give up Turner in a package, which I find unlikely especially when Offman is the source.

He'll start in AA right? That should be a fun rotation to follow with him, Adams, Stephens, Guerrero, & potentially Hansen at some point.

Eaton to Nationals, Quintana to Astros, Frazier to Dodgers, & Robertson to Yankees. Would be the best way to get little taste from all the top farm systems.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 12:46 PM) Reed's value has taken a major hit in my opinion by striking out at a 34% rate (48 times in 141 plate appearances) and batting .164 in 45 games He was absolutely awful against lefties at the mlb level and is a below average defensive player Could he be a future DH? Possibly, but his mlb showing this year did significant damage to his prospect value. This season is make or break for him because if the bat does not play he has no defensive value or ability to play a position besides 1B or DH. Martes, Tucker and Reed would be a really interesting package, but I'm not sure if Houston would sell that low on a player like Reed who does have power if he can improve his contact Reed is a perfect buy low guy for us. He's unlikely to get a shot in Houston anytime soon and I'm not sure dominating the PCL again is really going to repair his value. He makes a lot of sense as the third piece in Quintana trade for both sides IMO.