Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 7, 2015 -> 01:43 PM) http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mlb-free-agen...WQDBHNlYwNzYw-- Here's the real story of how Quintana came to the Sox. You have two scouts and then Dan Fabian before you even get to Hahn. Are you really tying to discredit Hahn because he effectively leveraged his talent evaluators?

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 7, 2015 -> 08:37 AM) I didn't think so. Yanks and other teams have done this before where they lose 1st, 2nd, 3rd and then still get a comp pick because their player left. I think the Sox lose their 2nd rounder regardless. I guess I could be sarong though. Yeah, I honestly thought the same thing. And quite frankly, the difference in value between a high-end comp pick (if it indeed goes by record) and the 10th or so selection in the 2nd round is pretty significant. I'm really hoping your right here.

QUOTE (daggins @ Nov 7, 2015 -> 06:57 AM) Or, if we have to lose a pick, lose it for like, Grienke or Hayward and not Howie Kendrick. Please no Howie Kendrick. I'm cool with giving up a pick for Upton, but definitely not for a guy like Kendrick. Still can't believe a few of these guys got QOs, someone will be accepting this year that's for sure.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 7, 2015 -> 06:55 AM) Yes. You lose your next selection after The one that was protected. Interesting, always thought comp picks were protected, but I guess this makes sense.

Dan Hayes is suggesting we'd lose our comp pick from Shark if we signed a free agent that received a QO. Anyone know if this is true?

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Nov 6, 2015 -> 06:03 PM) Ya but he is our best 3B prospect potentially. No doubt, and he could easily force himself into our plans with a strong AA season. But right now, we have to operate under the assumption we have a gaping hole at 3B and no obvious long-term solution to fill that spot in the near future. If Trey has a strong season at AA, you can always use him to fill other needs down the road.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Nov 6, 2015 -> 05:11 PM) For me he's a bridge to Trey at third. Trey is a nice prospect, but not a guy we can count on being the long-term answer at a position of need. He shouldn't prevent us from exploring other long-term alternatives and he's definitely not good enough for us to settle with a stopgap type like Freese for the next three years.

Wow, can't believe how many people here would actually want 34 year old, 2 WAR David Freese, let alone give him a 3 year deal. We need MASSIVE upgrades at multiple spots if we want to compete in the near future. Locking in at best average and quite possibly below average production at one of our best spots to improve is absolutely mind-boggling IMO. Quite frankly, I'd rather resign Alexei to play SS for like $6M and go all glove at 3B with Saladino than go more than one year with Freese.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 6, 2015 -> 04:35 PM) If they were to give him $30-35 million guaranteed for two years (and some in the WAR crowd would justify it, surely), there wouldn't be much joy in Mudville. I truly hope no one on this site would try to justify that contract, as it would be a horrible use of resources. Doesn't really matter though, because he's not getting an AAV of more than $10M and will only get that or close to it because of a lack of alternatives in the marketplace.

Holy f***, another thread ruined with nonsensical Royals commentary. I appreciate the mods effort to curb it, but it's really starting to get ridiculous. Caulfield, you seem like a very nice & intelligent person, but for the love of God stop derailing every thread with the Royals propaganda.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 5, 2015 -> 09:08 PM) How much of that is from his earlier outlier season/s as opposed to 2013-2015? 2012-2014, and that's not including his injury-riddled 2015, he's at a 726 OPS vs. righties. So the next question is do you want for Alex Avila with his recent history (including numerous physical problems) to be the primary catcher? He is only 28 now and would be 29 on Opening Day. I'd gamble with that over Flowers, honestly. Plus he has the added motivation of proving the Tigers and his father wrong in their head-to-head match-ups, so there's that. He had a wRC+ of 107 or better against RHP each year from 2012 to 2014. I'd call that a pretty solid track record. We all know he had a horrific 2015 and the health problems are a legit concern, but he could be an interesting buy low candidate to pair with Flowers. All depends on the cost and what else is out there at a somewhat reasonable price.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Nov 5, 2015 -> 08:37 PM) He's a LHH who hit .203 vs RHP last year. He's got a career wRC+ against RHP, that's pretty f***ing good.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 5, 2015 -> 05:07 PM) Why is Royals crap in this thread? Seriously, the endless Royals comments are already getting tiring and the offseason just started.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 5, 2015 -> 01:13 PM) Yeah. I think Royals can give QO to Gordon after he declines player option. Team cannot decline team option and then offer QO. According to this, rejecting an option (team or player) doesn't prevent a team from offering a QO. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/10/expl...fer-system.html

QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 5, 2015 -> 12:02 PM) I don't know about deferred money. Are we still paying Konerko? Buyouts happened in '15 not '16. As far as Turner and the other spots I made it pretty clear I was saying X amount of players costed Y amount of money. I know it wasn't perfect but more of where we are at with the most likely candidates on the roster. Apparently we still owe Peavy $1M, plus $1M buyouts for Emilio & Alexei. Wasn't disagreeing with anything you said, just had gone through the payroll exercise last night prior before seeing your post and figured I'd mention where we stood in case anyone was curious.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Nov 5, 2015 -> 07:36 AM) Per Dan Hayes, Renteria is getting a second interview this week. I'll be happy with Acta or Renteria, but would prefer Acta based on my limited information.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 4, 2015 -> 11:08 PM) Abreu. Robertson. Cabrera, Eaton, Quintana, Sale, Danks, LaRoche and Duke are 9 players for 87.71 million Flowers, Jones, Jennings, Garcia and Putnam are 5 players for 8.2 million using MLBTR estimates. That's 14 players for 95.91 million Assuming Petricka, Rodon, Sanchez, Johnson, Saladino and Thompson make the team that's 6 players at ~3.3 million. That's 20 players at 99.21 million. I understand the article did 40 man payroll but their numbers for reserve players are still wrong. You're missing about $3M in buyouts and deferred money, plus another $3M if you assume five more rookie contracts to fill out the 25 man roster & sightly more if Jacob Turner gets a spot. We should be sitting between $105M & $106M right now.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 4, 2015 -> 10:07 PM) http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/11/04/whi...oll-obligation/ Sox have about 105 million roster right now. Wonder how much they go up to We were at about $119M last year according to this: http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/chicago-white-sox/payroll/2015/ I think $130M seems like a reasonable projection, although I'm sure I'll be in the minority in guessing that.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 4, 2015 -> 06:18 PM) Because the guys people on here actually want to trade are guys who won't bring in anyone "significant." They can bring someone in but doubt it would make a difference. Todd Frazier would be a significant upgrade and I don't think his cost will be as much as people are expecting. Prospects are at an all-time high in terms of value. I actually think you could get him without having to give up Anderson or Fulmer, who are the only two untouchables in the system IMO.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 4, 2015 -> 06:09 PM) Then I guess we're dealing Quintana otherwise we aren't getting a significant upgrade. My idea of having Freese keeps our pitching staff intact which it won't be if we upgrade significantly at multiple spots. If we're relying on Freese to be a big upgrade, we're punting the season anyways. Hold onto your big three starters and give guys like Saladino, Sanchez, Micah, Avi, & Thompson a look on the position player side. Target 2017 to be the year we're serious about competing. Having said that, why can't we trade minor leaguers or sign better free agents than Freese to fill needs? Why does it have to Quintana or nothing?

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 4, 2015 -> 05:17 PM) Ok guys we're not getting Arenado. I think we end up signing Freese who wouldn't be a bad pickup. I agree about Arenado, but completely disagree on Freese. We need significant upgrades at several positions if we want to compete next year and 3B is perhaps our biggest opportunity spot. Having said that, Freese is a moderate upgrade at best. Might as well give Saladino a look if the alternative is a 34 year old free agent with 2 WAR upside.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Nov 3, 2015 -> 10:28 PM) Subpar starter with the bat. And the difference between him and the 6 or 8 guys ahead of him is not that much. Catchers suck at hitting across the league. He's considered a top 2 pitch framer in MLB this year. Because you don't have an easy way to quantify and contextualize that extremely important part of catching, you undervalue it. He helps the pitchers be better and more effective. He's an overall averagely valuable catcher. Huh? I never once mentioned anything about Tyler Flowers other than his bat, because that's the only thing that was being debated in this thread. Are we moving the goalposts now? And I've said time & time again on this board that there is no good way to quantity the true value of a catcher. Pitch framing is just one of many reasons why. Not sure where you get this idea I don't the importance of pitch framing. However, I would argue you're likely undervaluing the impact pitchers themselves have on pitch framing and therefore are overvaluing Flowers.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Nov 3, 2015 -> 09:37 AM) http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb...ny-joe-girardi/ I've posted this before but Robin is actually decent at managing the pen. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that stat is simply looking leverage and ignoring all other bullpen management aspects. Second, wouldn't having a high paid closer who pitched very well in high leverage situations completely skew that stat? Not to be a dick, but I'm not sure that stat really proves anything. Again, correct me if I'm wrong in my understanding of the metric.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Nov 3, 2015 -> 05:34 PM) An even better excuse is simply that he is a catcher. 21st in wRC+ amongst catchers with 300+ plate appearances. Dude is a bad hitter for the position too.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Nov 3, 2015 -> 08:17 AM) The issue with all of these fan made Cubs/Sox trade proposals is that Cubs fans are too set on not giving up any of the big prospects (Bryant/Schwarber/Russell) and instead make players like Starlin Castro and Javy Baez centerpieces, while Sox fans are too set on getting 1-2 of the big three prospects while also receiving a Javier Baez or an Albert Almora on the side. There has to be a middle ground. They're undervaluing our pitchers and we're overvaluing them. I've said it before, but Bryant & Russell are untouchable. Everyone else is fair game. I find the Starlin Castro proposals to be beyond ridiculous. He has almost no value no matter badly as the Cubs want to hype him as a stud middle infielder.