Chicago White Sox

Good to here about Cruz's defense at SS, no reason to switch him to 3B just yet.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 27, 2015 -> 11:23 AM) Isn't fWAR considered better than bWAR? I think most sabes (as Greg calls them) feel fWAR is better because it values pitchers on what they specifically control (HRs, BBs, & Ks) and pulls out most of the impact defense has on their bottom line performance.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Sep 27, 2015 -> 11:20 AM) Okay - trade Quintana. No objection. But who takes Rodon's spot? Pass on rushing Fulmer (who needs to get his delivery straightened out) or Adams (who's a ways away). Of course teams have veterans. But winning teams aren't built with veterans. They plug a hole or two or provide depth. Building with vets is what the Sox tried to do and what the fans want them to do (I can't wait until Todd Frazier and Lucroy are put on the block this winter...the hero-worship will break records; and if someone mentions Longoria......). As for Eaton, I simply don't believe he plays to his offensive numbers. Thus, it would be a value trade. Thompson is a better CF than he is anyway. Okay, don't trade him for prospects. Trade him for an equivalent 3b. Can you elaborate on this "don't believe he plays to his offensive numbers"? Not sure what that really means. Also, as great as Thompson has looked so far, it would foolish IMO to hand him a starting job next year. Let him be your 4th OF and platoon partner for LaRoche (playing CF those days, with Eaton in LF & Melky at DH). If the need arises, then you give him a chance as an everyday starter. Given the question marks with this lineup, we're going to need a deep bench to hedge some of our risks and Trayce fills one of those roles perfectly.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Sep 26, 2015 -> 07:55 AM) Agree. The Sox improved 10 games making small trades of one young player for another. I still have no idea why they reversed course of the winter of 2014 and did moves for veterans that weakened the organization. Now they can move Eaton for probably two young promising players. Like a pinhooker- buy the Yearling and flipping for multiples of value at two. Dude, prospects flop all the time. You trade Eaton for two of them you'll be lucky to even get one that turns out as good as him in the long-run. Sure, there's a small chance you end up with a better player or both prospects work out, but the odds are incredibly low. If you're going to take that gamble, you might as well trade the rest of your assets (Sale, Quintana, & Abreu) and straight-up rebuild, because you're pushing your timeline back another year or two. As disappointing as this season has been, we still have a playoff caliber pitching staff in place. Putting together a legit offense will be challenge, but one that's not necessarily impossible if they're willing to commit some resources to fixing it (cash & minor league pitching). Again, if ownership & the front office aren't willing to do that, then blow this f***ing thing up, as you definitely don't want to get stuck in the middle.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Sep 22, 2015 -> 12:25 PM) So Garcia is quickly reaching bust status but the guy who's older than him, put up inferior numbers than him in the minors and has had nothing more than a cup of coffee in the Majors isn't? How does that work? This love affair with Trayce Thompson is getting a little ridiculous. At the beginning of this year the consensus was pretty much he could be a 4th outfielder at best. Now all of the sudden some act like he's the next Mike Trout or something. Thompson may be over-hyped around here, but he also has skills (defense & BB %) that translate better to the pros than what Avi has to offer. Ultimately I see Trayce as a vey strong 4th OF who can platoon against LHP, while Avi will never hit enough to make up for his defensive short-comings. My recommendation is trade Avi for another young position player with question marks like Plawecki from the Mets.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 21, 2015 -> 10:47 PM) I guarantee you he gets more than 3/60. Four years minimum. Four years 80 would be the minimum offer or four years 76 million. Four years at 18 mill a year is probably what he'll get. maybe the full 80 million with a fifth year option. Wow, I 100% agree with you here Greg. I think 4/$75M is very doable for Shark.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Sep 20, 2015 -> 07:38 PM) You are a terrific poster on this site and I always enjoy your thoughts and opinions on all things White Sox. Just curious to pick your brain on your reaction to my Stone comment, why you don't think it would be a good idea. Stone's been around the game for a long, long time, and is well regarded in his knowledge of the game. Over the years I've always sensed that regard was for his understanding of the game both on and off the field, including his understanding of the business side of the game. I do think he exhibits the types of competencies and know-how of the game to be able to function highly in a front office position. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd love to hear you expound on your thoughts on this. Quite simply, I'm just sick of internal hires and/or guys with limited/no experience. That's obviously geared moreso to our recent manager hires, but I want our organization to start targeting experienced, external candidates for all our leadership positions. We aren't going to take a step forward until we bring in some fresh blood into the organization. And while I think Stone seems to be very baseball intelligent (a bit too old-school for my taste though), he's never been involved in a player acquisition role before. He's never dealt with negotiations, hiring scouting & developmental personnel, or even dealing with a budget. To assume he can handle all these responsibilities and more is simply too much of a gamble for my blood. And let me add that if we were to need a team president to replace KW, Dombrowski would have been the perfect target.

I like Steve Stone, but holy f*** do not make him the team president under any circumstance. That would be a bigger joke of a hire than Ventura was as manager.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 18, 2015 -> 07:13 PM) I don't think there's any chance that he gets "3 or 4 years" at anything close to that value with the number of pitchers on the market who have no QO. That's why I think that there's going to be a strong suggestion to "Take it if offered". Balta, I get you wouldn't give him a 3 or 4 year deal, but there will be at least one GM willing to do so. This is Major League Baseball, stupid contacts are given out every year. We'll offer him the QO, he'll reject, and then sign a multi-year below his expectations with some team. Probably the Yankees cause Jim Hendry is there. Guys rarely go from potential seven figure contracts to being limited to one year offers because of single bad year that had nothing to with injuries.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 18, 2015 -> 07:51 PM) He could have thrown a perfect game tonight and I would have said same thing. Looking at mookie's numbers just now on fangraphs just makes me want a mega-deal with Boston even more Fair enough then. I just don't think any of us should overreact to his putrid numbers as of late (whether due to a tired arm or simply losing focus in a lossed season), when we all saw how dominant he's capable of being earlier this year.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 18, 2015 -> 07:11 PM) Also forget trading Q, the real piece Hahn should be using is Sale to get some impact bats Fathom, you've officially hit an all-time low in terms of overreactions.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Sep 12, 2015 -> 08:43 AM) Outfield defense has to be resolved. Either Melky or Avi needs to be a DH more than an outfielder. The Sox need to acquire an outfielder who can hit and defend. For example, Boston now has 3 young outfielders hitting above .280 all of whom are above average defensively. Maybe Hahn could get one of them and one of their young catchers in exchange for pitching. At the trade deadline, I has proposed Q for Bradley and Swihart + prospects but my guess is Boston won't do that now that Dombrowski has taken over and Bradley has exploded. I agree we can't enter 2016 with Melky & Avi in the same OF. I'm fine with one of them in LF, but like you said we need a legit two-way player for RF. If you could find a taker for LaRoche (while eating half his salary), I'd be ok with rotating Melky & Avi between LF & DH next year. Unfortunately, I think we're stuck with him, which makes giving Avi another opportunity a tough proposition. If we're serious about competing next year, under no circumstance can we give LaRoche, Melky, & Avi the majority of the playing time in LF, RF, & DH. An upgrade is needed in addition to using Trayce off the bench against LHP.

Anyone got some guesses on the type of contracts the big four OFs get this offseason? Really think we got to snag one of these guys. I know we'd have to give up a draft pick to sign all of them but Cespedes, but this team isn't take a big step forward without adding some legit bats.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 10:21 PM) I think the Sox need to get multiple boppers. Longoria, CarGo/Puig. Hell, I'd check in on Detroit to see if they'd be willing to deal Miggy or the Angels with Pujols. Look at Beltre. I need at least 3 proven bats, I need LaRoche gone, I'm willing to deal Q. Definitely let Jeff S go. I think two legit bats (preferably RF & 3B) and improvement from some of our holdovers makes us contenders next year. The pitching staff should actually be better with Rodon's continued development, Johnson replacing a disappointing Shark, & a full season of Nate Jones. We don't need an elite offense, just can't be bottom five in OPS & ISO like we are this year.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 10, 2015 -> 02:02 PM) Why would you say you can win with Melky and not Avi? Melky has also been one of the worst OFs in baseball this year, his defense hasnt been quite Garciabad but his offense has been worse. If Melky goes on your list of guys you can win with then Avi does as well. Because 2015 2016 and Melky has an actual track record of being a good hitter. Unless you believe peds are the reason for his drop-off, I think there's reason to expect a decent amount of positive regression next year. As for Avi, his lack of plate discipline gives me little faith he'll turn the corner. Definitely could happen, but there is nothing available today that makes me feel confident that he'll be more than the next Viciedo.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Sep 9, 2015 -> 10:12 PM) Really the only value that the Sox have to trade is veteran starting pitching. Oh they can shuffle the Danishs and perhaps Micah but leave A ball alone - a lot of talent of which it's still to hard to judge real value. And some want to trade Avi - can't wait to get rid of him. This is his first full ML season and he's doing pretty well. Ridiculous. I listened to a Law chat and someone asked him about Trayce. He says that Trayce is a 70 defensive centerfielder. But he doesn't like the bat at all because the swing is long and somewhat loopy. He hasn't seen Trayce on the Sox, though. So my question, is his swing still long? Or has the pitching coach, perhaps, done something with him. Because if this is sustainable, or partially sustainable, the Sox have another trade chit: Eaton. The Sox aren't trading their second best hitter when they're desperate for offense, especially not when he is cost-controlled for multiple years.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Sep 9, 2015 -> 07:58 PM) The answer is simple: cut bait on the guppy. The expected 2.5 WAR from the draft pick over the course of his career simply is not worth the very good chance that Shark accepts the QO. You keep highlighting this "expected 2.5 career WAR" draft pick, which is a terrible way to look at draft picks. We get it, most draft picks amount to nothing. But occasionally, a guy drafted in the comp round ends up a 10 WAR player or even a 20 WAR player. This isn't a bell curve with 2.5 as the mean. It's a skewed distribution, but one with some big payoffs if you select the right player. And a significant part of that payoff is the surplus value a good pick provides, which is the lifeblood of successful organizations. By treating all WAR the same and ignoring the financial cost to acquire said production, your logic basically devalues draft picks of all rounds, with maybe the exception of the 1st overall pick. Also, there is almost no chance Shark accepts the QO. He won't get the seven figure deal he was hoping for, but some team will offer him a James Shields contract. Scouts have always loved the arm and there is always one GM willing to do something stupid in free agency.

Existing Sox Players -Make qualifying offer to Shark (he rejects). -Reject Alexei Ramirez's option -Resign Soto to 1/$5M deal. -Resign Albers to 1/$3M deal. -Trade for Flowers for A ball lottery ticket. Free Agents & Acquistions -Sign Justin Upton to 6/$130M deal -Sign Ben Zobrist to 2/$28M deal -Sign Billingsley to 1 year deal w/ incentives -Trade Avi Garcia to the Mets for Kevin Plawecki 1. Eaton, CF 2. Zobrist, 3B 3. Abreu, DH (1B against LHP) 4. Cabrera, LF (DH against LHP) 5. Upton, RF 6. LaRoche, 1B (bench against LHP) 7. Plawecki, C 8. Sanchez, SS (bench against LHP) 9. Johnson, 2B IF: Saladino (SS against LHP) OF: Thompson (LF against LHP) UT: L. Garcia BC: Soto #1: Sale #2: Quintana #3: Rodon #4: Johnson #5: Danks (Fulmer mid-season call-up) CL: Robertson SU: Jones SU: Duke MR: Putnam MR: Jennings MR: Petricka MR: Albers

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Sep 8, 2015 -> 08:49 PM) Your inability to accept reality does you no credit. Any other organization would fire all these parts. I believe the White Sox are a better organization than one playoff appearance in 9 years. It's a shame you accept that mediocrity. Clearly you wouldn't know good baseball if it hit you over the head. Lol...you know jack s*** about me bro. What I know about you is you recently came to this site with this "I'm smarter than everyone" attitude because you believe all us "Cubs haters" won't acknowledge how bad things have gotten. Outside of a select few posters, we're all aware how mediocre this organization has been since 2005. And quite frankly, I agree that a lot of the leadership needs to go, including KW, Ventura, & Buddy Bell. But when you say Chris Sale is the only guy on the roster who'd be part of a good Sox team, you sound like a whiny little b**** looking for attention. Just absolute garbage and if you continue to make comments like that, you'll continue to get flamed (which is maybe what you're looking for in the first place).

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Sep 8, 2015 -> 08:41 PM) Fire Kenny Williams Fire Rick Hahn Fire Robin Ventura Fire most scouting Begin the recovery process with a real general manager and baseball operations team. Our current players just don't matter. None of them outside of Sale could possibly part of the "good White Sox" One of most garbage posts I've seen on this website in quite some time.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 07:26 AM) Saladino is a rookie with one month of major league experience. He has had success in his career in the minors. Why are people writing him off as if he'll never improve? Whenever young players are on other teams and struggle people are more than willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. But when it comes to here, what players do in their first month equates to their career ceilings? Saladino has had his moments, both good and bad, and maybe utility player is his ceiling (which is fine), but I think it's a bit early to declare that his definitive future. x1,000...look at how much better Sanchez has been after a horrific start. Young players require patience.

Assuming we're stuck with LaRoche next year, we have to platoon him AND play him more at 1B. Not only is Adam clearly the better defender at 1B, but Abreu has not shown any issues with DHing. Given Thompson's splits against LHP, he should be in the lineup every game LaRoche is on the bench. Therefore, here's what I'd propose doing at 1B, DH, & LF next year: Against RHP 1B: LaRoche DH: Abreu LF: Melky Against LHP 1B: Abreu DH: Melky LF: Thompson

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 1, 2015 -> 04:39 PM) My overall summary is that if people are going to talk about whether we're going to trade a $10 million player at the waiver wire to clear salary and whether we're going to make an offer to corner OF's likely to get $20 million/season or more, its equally fair to ask where we're going to get the funds and whether it would be a good idea. I think the point is you don't have as good of a grasp on the Sox's financial situation as you think you do. None of us know what their financial forecasts are. You can't just look at last year's P&L and assume the same exact performance the following year. New revenue streams may become available, price increases or cost savings could impact the bottom line. There are numerous things that could impact payroll that you have no access to. And for love of God, please stop taking what Reinsdorf, KW, or Hahn say about our financial situation as gospel. These guys have no absolutely reason to be honest about this with fans. They are much better off keeping the competition in the dark.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Sep 1, 2015 -> 04:05 PM) That's because you put a hedge in everything you say. It's fine, I do the exact same thing. But I also pasted the entirety of the posts to avoid taking anything out of context, and like I said before, the tone is very evident. All those posts were around the same part of the season during which you're now doing it again. How about instead of analyzing ledgers we all just acknowledge that aside from the impossibility of the Sox spending $200+ million, we don't know what they're gonna do? Shyrocks, thanks for finding this. I argued with Balta all last season about our potential 2015 payroll and he was convinced $100M would be our cap, despite the additional national TV revenue. Glad to see him finally held accountable for those statements.

Regardless of their revenues today, at some point the organization is going to ramp up its spending and try to build some legitimate interest in the team prior to their TV deal expiring at the end of 2019. The potential payoffs from a long-term TV deal will far outweigh the incremental payroll in the short-term. May not happen this offseason, but it will happen in the near future if these guys have any idea what they're doing.