Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 22, 2015 -> 11:49 AM) Adam Russell, Andy Sisco, Addison Reed, Horacio Ramirez, Gavin Floyd, Gio Gonzalez, etc. Kyle Schwarber, Jeimer Candelario, Pearce Johnson, Tommy La Stella, Javier Baez and Billy McKinney. Thoughts? While I agree with the above, I'll counter with Augie Ojeda.

Justin Upton please, he should come a lot cheaper than Heyward & Cespedes and fits our offensive needs better. What do you guys think it would take to land him? 6/$130M?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 21, 2015 -> 09:19 PM) Bartolo Colon in 2009 with the White Sox. Actually, a 4.19 ERA and 1.44 WHIP. Not quite as bad as I thought it was, but nothing like how he has pitched in 2012 and 13 with Oakland. It seems pitching in that stadium makes almost EVERY pitcher (see Shark as well) look a lot better than they really are... I'm referring to your comment about Garica & Contreras.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 21, 2015 -> 09:10 PM) Too bad we didn't have the 2003 version of Colon or the post medical enhancement version... We got the one in the middle who sucked, same with Garcia and Contreras at the tail end of their careers. What are you talking about?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 21, 2015 -> 01:00 PM) The White Sox and Cubs would be almost ideal trade partners. The problem is I don't see the Cubs trading for their needs. They are sitting on assloads of cash right now. They made $80 million last year, and absolutely are going to explode in their finances this year. Why trade when you can go out and pick up a David Price for something you have tons of, that being cash? They made $75M in EBIT, but have the biggest debt load in baseball. They aren't sitting on assloads of cash by any means.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 21, 2015 -> 01:55 PM) Robin's winning pct. has been mentioned numerous times as the proof he needs to be fired. It has also been posted that no team other than the White Sox would ever hire him. You called Acta an ideal candidate. What is that based on? Certainly not how the teams he managed played. 73-89 59-102 26-61 69-93 80-82 65-91 First, I said an ideal "bench coach" candidate, with the three primary reasons being he is a former manager, bilingual, & being pro-stats. Second, I've argued time and time again that using wins & losses is a horrible way to evaluate a manager. So if you're using me as your source of hypocrisy you're way off base.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 21, 2015 -> 09:06 AM) So let me get this straight, Robin Ventura's managerial winning pct. of .458 is ample proof he is a terrible manager, and no one but the White Sox would ever hire him again. And Manny Acta would make a decent bench coach hire and potential Ventura replacement despite his .385 winning pct. in 3 years in Washington and .446 winning pct. in 3 years in Cleveland. Can you name one poster who ripped Robin as manager due to his winning percentage that is in favor of hiring Acta as our manager? If not, you've once again combined a variety of Soxtalk opinions and then screamed "hypocrisy".

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Oct 20, 2015 -> 10:25 PM) Sorry, I don't respond well to being called "Chubbie". I fail to see how name calling isn't a violation of forum rules. Lol...a grown ass man crying about being called "Chubbie" on a Sox message board. Now I have seen everything!

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Oct 20, 2015 -> 10:07 PM) Tell me about all the murdered baseball fans in my old neighborhood. Go ahead, I'll wait. Also, for the record, I didn't watch a second of this game, because I really don't care. I was watching hockey, the sports Chicagoans pretend to care about when their baseball teams are irrelevant. The Stars look great. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1797122 How many baseball fans have been murdered outside the Cell? Since the Robert Taylor homes have been demolished, how many violent crimes have even occurred in the area after a ball game? While not a great area by any means, you're running with a stereotype that's years old. Once again, you show how out of touch you are with Chicago and its sports scene. But obviously I don't want to call you a "troll" or "Cubs" fan, or else we'll have to continue to hear you whine about it in every post, so continue to take as many cheap shots at the Sox as your little heart desires.

Acta would be the ideal candidate. If they can get him as bench coach, I'm less concerned about Robin as our manager. I never really understood the Parent signing and this would correct for that.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Oct 19, 2015 -> 08:03 AM) Or the Sox could move Eaton to left and Trayce to center and move Melky on his way. That would improve the D significantly. Avi, in his first full season, hit a whole .34 OPS less than Melky and had twice the number of assists. Even better, sell high on Eaton- rather trade him to plug holes than Quintana. What's the opposite of hero worshipping? Because trading one of the better young OFs in the game under control for multiple years at a below market rate to "plug holes" and open up everyday spots for both Trayce & Avi would be disastrous. Sign Justin Upton to a 6 year, $130M deal and make Trayce the 4th until he proves otherwise.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 07:00 PM) He would come cheaper than Zobrist or Murphy. I'm rather certain Murphy will get 4 years. I think Zobrist will as well because there is no draft pick compensation and every single team could use him. Victor Martinez got 4 years last year at 36 and he can play roughly zero positions. Wasn't Victor Martinez arguably the best hitter in baseball the year before he his free agency?

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 08:24 AM) Just as a side note for those who think Trayce and his impeccable defense is a fourth Of (I mean how could he possibly approach Melky value?) and the rest of the prospects who aren't mL starter quality by 24 should be dumped, Frazier was modest in AA and AAA at age 26. I'm not ready to rule out Trayce as a regular, but completely ignoring his minor league track record and citing one outlier isn't going to convince me he is. If we're serious about competing next year, he should begin the season as our 4th OF and force his way into the lineup. And that could very well happen if LaRoche is retained as our DH. RF should be an area of focus this offseason as a potential spot for an impact bat.

QUOTE (GREEDY @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 03:53 AM) Can the Sox get Frazier without giving up Quintana or Rodon? Both of those guys are worth significantly more than Frazier. If the Sox do go after Todd, it better for be minor leaguers. I'd actually be ok with a package like Montas, Micah (if the Sox seem Sanchez as our 2B), & Guerrero. I think we can afford to trade some minor league pitching as long as we hold onto Fulmer & Adams and as I mentioned Micah could be blocked. I don't think that deal would have gotten it done a few years ago, but it today's environment where prospects are coveted it just might work. Still risky given Frazier is only under control for 2 years and the upside of us guys involved on our end.

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 10:31 PM) Great post, but it's too bad this board ridicules people for supporting the Cubs for whatever reason. In reality, we're better off encouraging baseball discussion instead of calling people "f***ing idiots" for being happy for the Cubs. For example: Not only is the post complete garbage (There is enough support from both sides of town to support two successful teams), it's not a good look for the White Sox fanbase and it's not a good look for this board. A number of us love the game and love the White Sox and don't need to justify who we support and what we watch otherwise. I'm here to discuss the White Sox (no matter how abysmal they look) and the rest of baseball with people from similar upbringings and interests. We should not ever question the White Sox fandom of a person because we are not to judge. Lol...you actually suggested that the Cubs winning the World Series could bring out more Sox fans next year. That has to be one of the dumbest theories in Soxtalk history and proves how out of touch you are with the Chicago sports scene. I will stand by what I said, any Sox fan wanting the Cubs to win a World Series is a f***ing idiot. Our fanbase is incredibly small considering the size of the Chicago market and will continue to shrink if the Cubs win a World Series and/or go on an extended run of success. How many lifelong Blackhawks fans have been born during their recent mini-dynasty? Why would the Cubs, second only to the Bears in Chicago, be any different? There are thousands of young, impressionable fans looking for a team to invest in and an elite Cubs club is a pretty attractive option. A portion of these fans will go on to become season ticket holders and ultimately a critical source of revenue. Beyond these long-term implications, the Sox have a TV deal that expires in 2019. The new TV contract is of incredible importance to our organization's ability to compete in the mid-term, so it's absolutely critical that the front office build up interest/viewership in the team between now and then. If you actually think strong Cubs ratings don't have a direct impact on our own, then I don't know what to tell you. By the way, get off your high horse. I've seen you spew this "bad look" s*** in multiple threads involving a variety of subjects. My rant, if you want to call it that, has zero impact on the fanbase or board's image. The simple notion that it somehow does is beyond laughable. For someone who claims "we are not to judge", you sure do like to call people out on a regular basis.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 03:26 PM) They offered Samardzija ~90 million. Danks and LaRoche off the books after 2015 is almost 30 million off the books. Sox attendance went up over 1,000 per game from '14-'15. They were over 130 million in 2012 and 2014 and that's over 150 million in today's market. That's not including the profits they've mades since then. Sox operating costs are minuscule. The one thing that is worrisome about the Sox money situation is the lack of advertising interest with the team. The Sox have serious money coming to them in 2019 so if they have to back load a deal to make it happen it shouldn't be an issue. That's basically protocol for most teams anyways. The new signage might improve their advertising revenue. I also think the organization will be very motivated to build up interest in the team prior to their TV deal expiring, which could mean going into the red a bit for a few years. BTW, love the Upton idea. I'd rather have him than Heyward given I expect their costs to be.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 11, 2015 -> 11:32 AM) I did find this headline at the White Sox web site for their latest story interesting: "Sox to rely on improvement of core in 2016 Club unlikely to make drastic changes, believes pieces are in place to compete." Who knows if this means anything for sure, but I will say if they do very little and actually believe this, another bad April start and U.S. Cellular Field will be a ghost town by June 2016. Mark While I wouldn't take that article as anything more than a typical Merkin fluff piece, I will say that Hahn & company are clearly incompetent if they actually believe that minor changes are all that are needed to right this ship.

I'm going to come out and say it, but if you claim to be a true Sox fan and are cheering for the Cubs this postseason then you are a f***ing idiot. Our beloved franchise has always been the ugly step-child of the Chicago sports scene and a Cubs World Series victory would make us even more irreverent. Go ahead and come up with some lame excuse on why it's ok to cheer for them, but you are literally rooting against the well-being of your own franchise. There is no good that comes to the Sox from the Cubs winning the World Series, none whatsoever. It's absolutely disgusting how many "Sox fans" I know are jumping on this bandwagon and it's even worse how many members on this site, a forum that is home to some of the most die-hard Sox fans in the world, are pro-Cubs right now.

I'm going to throw it out there, but what about Chris Davis? He's the best hitter available in free agency, can technically play multiple positions (allows both him & Abreu in the lineup in NL parks), and his addition would allow us to go defense-oriented at a couple of spots. Sign Zobrist and trade for a catcher (will use Derek Norris here) and go with something like this: 1. Eaton, CF 2. Zobrist, 3B 3. Abreu, DH/1B 4. Davis, 1B/DH 5. Cabrera, LF 6. Thompson, RF 7. Ramirez, SS 8. Norris, C 9. Sanchez, 2B Huge question marks in the bottom half of the lineup, but at least they're all strong defenders. But that 1 - 5 would be very potent and could probably carry the load.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 09:44 PM) WAR is a counting stat Balta. In those three seasons Sale made 30, 26 and 31 starts, which brings him to a WAR total (counting stat) that is less than his peers that you mentioned. WAR/200 IP, starts/season Kershaw ---------7.02, 31 Sale ------------- 5.49, 29 Scherzer -------- 5.34, 32.67 Kluber -----------5.19, 30 Price ------------- 5.16, 31 Felix -------------4.49, 32 I have no problem with you saying Sale isn't a once in a generation pitcher and I agree with you but the argument that there is a several pitchers that have been better than him is silly. He's missed some starts over strains and the team being careful but should he really be punished for that? The several pitchers that you mentioned as better than him, over your preferred sample, have been more effective on a cumulative basis but on a rate basis, Kershaw is the only pitcher who has been better than Sale. Great post.

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 02:22 PM) Astros and Cubs for me. I don't hold grudges against teams that don't matter. Lol what? Cubs don't matter? Guess we aren't competing for the same fans.

I'm not sure why so many people seem think the only way to evaluate a manager is by wins & losses. Talent is always going to be the primary driver of on-field results, so using it as a basis of manager performance is pretty stupid. Instead, focus on the things the manager can control. First, Robin has shown time and time again he is a terrible in-game manager. Second, his teams have consistently played fundamentally poor baseball, which he deserves some (not all) blame for. If you actually watch the games, these issues become clear as day. Doesnt matter if the Sox were to win 100 or lose 100, the poor decision making and lack of preparation/accountability would still make Robin a bad manager.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 5, 2015 -> 09:59 AM) MLB teams use coaching firings as misdirections. They fire your manager to appease the mob, despite the fact that there's tons of evidence -- observational, anecdotal, sabermetric, and otherwise -- that suggests that the manager has very little, if anything, to do with how well the team performs. Why are you all playing into this? If you want to hold the White Sox accountable for losing, do it by asking why we have Avisail Garcia. Do it by pointing out that there were signs that Adam LaRoche or Alexei Ramirez would fall off a cliff. The players are the ones that are failing. Changing managers will do nothing to help your team, so stop letting the media and PR department "satisfy" you with manager-personnel decisions. Mind sharing this evidence? Would be interested in reading up on this.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Oct 4, 2015 -> 08:33 AM) We haven't. We need to lose today, and Seattle needs to win. QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 4, 2015 -> 08:33 AM) If we lose today and Seattle wins we can still get the 10th pick. Thank you. I hate cheering against the Sox, but today will be one of those rare days I do.

For the love of God, please tell me we haven't been eliminated from protected pick status!?