Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Nov 3, 2015 -> 05:34 PM) An even better excuse is simply that he is a catcher. 21st in wRC+ amongst catchers with 300+ plate appearances. Dude is a bad hitter for the position too.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Nov 3, 2015 -> 08:17 AM) The issue with all of these fan made Cubs/Sox trade proposals is that Cubs fans are too set on not giving up any of the big prospects (Bryant/Schwarber/Russell) and instead make players like Starlin Castro and Javy Baez centerpieces, while Sox fans are too set on getting 1-2 of the big three prospects while also receiving a Javier Baez or an Albert Almora on the side. There has to be a middle ground. They're undervaluing our pitchers and we're overvaluing them. I've said it before, but Bryant & Russell are untouchable. Everyone else is fair game. I find the Starlin Castro proposals to be beyond ridiculous. He has almost no value no matter badly as the Cubs want to hype him as a stud middle infielder.

I'd rather have Adams than any of those Cubs pieces.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Nov 2, 2015 -> 07:57 PM) Yeah...... Javier Baez is not going to be involved as a centerpiece of any top starting pitcher on our team. Atleast I hope to hell not According to Dick Allen, Theo wouldn't trade Baez straight up for Quintana, but maybe if we're lucky they'd do a Baez for Sale swap?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 1, 2015 -> 10:42 AM) I think there is a pretty good chance of a bounceback from LaRoche between that, and being his second year in the AL. I agree, I don't expect a repeat of his 2014 numbers, but really believe he can be productive next year. At the very least, I think he deserves a 6 to 8 week look before moving on to other options. The best chance for this team contending is for guys like LaRoche, Melky, & Alexei to perform closer to their career averages than what they provided last year.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Nov 1, 2015 -> 09:43 AM) Is there data on guys who move to the DH spot without having prior experience there and then struggling? I'm not sure two data points is a sufficient sample size to make that kind of conclusion, especially since we acquired both guys well after their prime years anyway. Again, not saying all guys will struggle, it's just a risk that should be taken into consideration when giving annual salaries in the 8 figure range. Small sample sizes, but last year LaRoche put up a wRC+ of 103 when playing 1B and only a 59 while DHing. He even acknowledged he had struggles adjusting to the role. Going back and looking at the splits, it's looks like I was wrong about Dunn, as the DH role didn't seem to be a problem for him. But there have definitely been other guys who have had issues with DHing. Pretty sure Frank Thomas had some significant splits in the latter part of his career when he spent the majority of his time DHing.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 1, 2015 -> 09:23 AM) I understand you were agreeing with me, I just think "forced" is an incorrect way of describing it, that's all. DHs usually are players that are deficient in the field but can hit for power and drive in runs. Dunn fit that description to a T, Laroche is still good in the field but his godawful start really didn't make anyone want to play him anywhere, much less the field. We all want Edgar Martinez hitting DH, but unfortunately the Sox keep getting guys closer to Ray Martinez You're dwelling on a single word and missing the point of my argument. It is very dangerous to pay a guy $15M to DH when he's never done it on a regular basis before. Not once did I suggest we need a HoF like Edgar Martinez, there are plenty of 1B types in the AL that have some experience DHing that would be safer signings than getting career NL guys. I get that Dunn had no business playing in the field, doesn't mean we needed to be the team to give him $15M a year to find out if he could handle DHing. And trust me, I was 100% behind the Dunn signing. Just saying that with the benefit of hindsight, I think we need to more cautious when filling the DH spot going forward.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 1, 2015 -> 08:27 AM) Come on, forced? Both of these guys signed their contracts knowing what their job description was, it isn't like the Sox pulled a bait and switch on them Who is saying the Sox pulled a bait and switch? I think you've competed misinterpreted my post. I was agreeing with you that this NL players can't hit in the AL argument is stupid and unfounded. Like I said in my previous post, the larger issue is assuming all players can handle DHing. Sure, just because Dunn & LaRoche agreed to DH and probably thought they could handle the role, doesn't mean it was going to work out for us. Our front office has to be smarter about giving big contracts to guys with no track record of DHing if that's going to be their primary role. Right now, we're 0 for 2 in those situations.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 1, 2015 -> 07:55 AM) I just browsed the last 6 years, Pierre/Dunn/Laroche/Kotsay/De Aza And we are making proclamations based on this bunch and their sample size In regards to the OP, I don't fault the Sox front office for not making a run at Morales. He certainly did not look like he had anything left after his short stints with the twins and Mariners. Good for the Royals for getting what they got out of him, but I didn't see many people wringing their hands from Laroche over Morales. De Aza was a pretty solid hitter for us, all things considered. Pierre & Kotsay pretty much met expectations offensively, which should have been fairly low. All this goes back to Dunn & LaRoche, who are far less similar hitters than the the majority of this board realizes. The one constant, however, is both were forced to DH without having a track record at the position. Not suggesting that is the only reason for their struggles (age/health certainly played a role), but DHing is not for everyone and we shouldn't automatically assume every power bat can handle the transition.

QUOTE (Ballz-n-Strikes @ Oct 31, 2015 -> 11:42 PM) Quintana is untouchable. Where do you get that from? *Edit - I'm editing my OWN post. He is more valuable (arguably) than Sale. THAT is how good Q is. I love Quintana, but have to fully disagree here. Don't see an argument for how Quintana is more valuable than Sale.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 1, 2015 -> 02:04 AM) I don't see why I see this kind of post so often. We are not a snake bit team or have a curse of anything of that nature. It just was an ill advised signing of a player who was too old and could not contribute every day . These kind of "eeyore" posts are kind of silly. Instead of putting the blame where it belongs it gets put on some kind of Sox karma thing. It's just really lazy whining. And most of it is based on Adam Dunn & Adam LaRoche's struggles. If anything, the takeaway should be that not all players can handle DHing and we should require some experience when filling that spot.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Oct 31, 2015 -> 06:22 PM) Sure Frazier could happen if we really wanted to. Signing 1 Gordon, Upton, Heyward? Nope, I really don't give it much a percentage of happening. Maybe 5%, maybe. The chances of both happening? 0%. The payroll won't be 135, nor will any of the big 3 be interested in coming to the white sox with the other offers that will be available. If we are getting a big bat Hahn will have to be creative with a trade package, I truly believe that. And even then I don't see us getting much more than a Todd Frazier type of bat. We'll see what happens though. Trust me, I'll have no problem eating crow if Frazier and Gordon are wearing a sox uni next year Not saying it's likely, as there are a lot of it's in the equation. Just don't think it's an unrealistic proposal like "sign Heyward" or "trade for Arenado". This isn't directed at you, but some people here we're incapable of signing a major free agent simply because we really haven't done so in the past. However, we have attempted to sign some big name free agents, with the offer made to Tanaka likely over $100M. It's going to happen at some point and likely in the near future. This organization has a huge incentive to build interest in the team, as their TV deal expires in a few years. To maximize the value of that new deal, they'll need to acquire some stars and/or build a winning club. That might mean dipping into their reserves for a few years to support a higher payroll in the short-run. I don't think a $135M payroll is out of the realm of possibility next year.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Oct 31, 2015 -> 04:47 PM) I'm trying to list realistic options...you're shooting for the moon. Of course id love for us to get Gordon and Frazier too, but it's just not going to happen unfortunately. Why is Frazier unrealistic? You really don't think we have the chips to land him? I think his second half and limited control will bring down to his cost to a somewhat reasonable level (won't be cheap by any means though). I get the argument that Gordon is unrealistic, but not when you're saying you'd rather spend the money he'd get on multiple free agent targets for the same amount of money. The payroll may or may not be a problem, way too early to say with any certainty. Gordon and Frazier would make about $28M combined in my scenario, which we should be able to afford with a moderate payroll increase (to about $135M). If not, there are some guys we could move to clear some space. So again, I'll ask you what's so unrealistic about adding these guys. Go ahead and question if it's the best use of resources, but I don't see why it's a ridiculous proposal.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Oct 31, 2015 -> 03:39 PM) Howie Kendrick to start at 2B for 8 or 9 mil per + Garrardo Parra, Austin Jackson, Ah-Seop Son, Jon Jaso, David Freese.... And depending on which guys you go with you might be able to get a good 2nd lefty for the pen too. I honestly do not see Alex Gordon as the bat this offense needs to get over the hump. If we were to sign him and no other major additions I still don't see us as a playoff team I think Kendrick gets $10M+ easy and I'm not sure those other guys are really upgrades over what we have already (Trayce in RF, Saladino at 3B). IMO, signing B & C tier free agents is a dangerous game as they have much less room to regress and still be productive players. We saw this ourselves with Melky & LaRoche last year. Also, I'd rather have Upton over Gordon due to the age difference, but Alex is a tremendous all-around player with a great track record in the AL. He'd be a significant upgrade over Avi while taking some pressure off Abreu. Under no circumstance do I think Gordon alone makes us a playoff team, but add him or one of the other elite free agent OFs and trade for a good 3B (Frazier perhaps) and this team suddenly becomes very interesting, especially if you think some of the other position players can rebound/grow next year.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Oct 31, 2015 -> 02:01 PM) He's a nice piece to have on any team obviously but I'm not sure he's the big contract bat we need for this lineup. The $90+Mil he's likely to get is a break the budget move that may or may not even make us a playoff team in my opinion. I'd rather sign 2 starting position players for the $ Gordon will get Say Gordon gets $20M per year. Which two free agents would you rather sign for that money? Not sure that $20M goes as far as you think.

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Oct 31, 2015 -> 01:37 PM) I know our outfield kinda blows, but why would you bring in a high cost FA like Gordon? Because we desperately need an impact bat to pair with Jose. We'll either have to go out and sign a free agent or trade a f***ton of prospects to get one. There is no such player in the system that exists that's less than three years away unless Hawkins learns not to K at a 30% clip (not very likely).

I was proposing Morales as an offseason addition during the 2014 season, but I really can't blame Hahn for going with the guy coming off a very solid season vs. the guy coming off a not-so-good one. My only issue would be if they chose him because they over-valued his character, which I doubt was the case. Despite how bad LaRoche was last year, I'm not quite ready to give up on him. First and foremost, the entire organization must come to the conclusion that Adam is a platoon player. Don't really care what the expectations were when he signed his contract, the guy should not being facing LHP period. Second, Robin needs to give him more starts at 1B. He's clearly the strongest defender there, which allows him to provide some value regardless of how he hits. Additionally, it seems like he really struggled with DHing and Abreu has shown no major splits offensively regardless if he's playing the field or not. Throw in some improved health and I think we can got some decent production out of him next year. Having said that, we need to have some contingencies in place in case that doesn't happen.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Oct 31, 2015 -> 08:38 AM) It wouldn't be my preference. But then again, I don't want the Sox "going for it". I want them to continue to build by making savvy deals wherever they may lie, without pressing to "fill a hole" (because the Sox have about 6 holes by my count). So if that leaves us short a 3B again, so be it. We have Sale & Abreu under control for four more seasons each. IMO, you can have one more transition season, but need to be serious about competing by 2017. If not, then we have to seriously consider a rebuild, because we can't keep wasting away cost-controlled seasons of our two best assets.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Oct 31, 2015 -> 08:27 AM) You don't want to trade Micah but where are you going to play him???. He did "rake" when he was sent down but he went down because of his defense. His defense at Charlotte was not any better which is 2 seasons at AAA he has struggled defensively. You saw Micah play in Charlotte? Disappointing to hear his defense wasn't better in your eyes.

Save the money and go after Plawecki or Norris.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 28, 2015 -> 03:47 PM) I actually have offered many ideas of my own. The sad reality is that this is a relatively weak FA class and the best position available happens to be our strength, which is starting pitching. I'm not saying that the Sox shouldn't bring in anyone who has a bad history in the clubhouse, but come on, Papelbon is a cancer and A-Rod would bring so much negative publicity to the team. You want me to suggest an alternative, so I guess I will. That would be not trading for Papelbon (simply because we don't need to and LaRoche is nearly untradeable) and not trading for A-Rod and perhaps going after Martin Prado instead. Is this really that weak of a free agent class? Go check out next year's class. I really beleive people need to re-think what a quality free agent class looks like now that a higher percentage of players are being locked-up early in their careers.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Oct 28, 2015 -> 07:25 AM) I do see them trading Q because they need to acquire a couple of impact young players and I don't think trading Johnson and "some minor league pitching" gets that. If they trade Q they also have to get back a 4-5 type starter along w 2 MLB ready position players. If not, you don't trade him. As far as starting pitching goes, The Sox have to go into the spring with 6 starters ( last year Johnson was #6) . Too many pitching injuries occur these days. I see Sale-Rodon-Johnson Danks-FA veteran and Fulmer or Montas or trade acquistion as #6. I think a package built around Erik Johnson & Frankie Montas would be incredibly attractive to a lot of teams. Prospects are at an all-time high in terms of value, especially ones that are major league ready or close.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Oct 28, 2015 -> 07:18 AM) Latos? You want Latos? Gotta be kidding. What's your beef with Latos? The fact he had one bad year? That's exactly what makes him attractive, low acquisition cost but with big upside. He very well might suck again, but he's exactly the type of pitcher we should be targeting. There is no reason to sign a starter for more than one or two years given our pitching depth in the minors.

I don't see us trading Quintana, because that creates a hole in the rotation that will be difficult to fill. A 1-2-3 of Sale, Rodon, & Quintana is critical if we want to compete in 2016/2017. I could see us trading Erik Johnson in a package for a young position player and then going out and signing a veteran free agent like Latos or Fister to fill the #4 spot. Fulmer potentially being a mid-season call-up gives us the flexibility to go with a couple of veterans in the back of the rotation and trade some minor league pitching for offense.

Hopefully the Royals lose in four, lose Gordon in the offseason, and quickly because irrelevant once again. Never want to hear the words "successful" and "rebuild" in the same sentence again when discussing the Royals.