Chicago White Sox

Acta would be the ideal candidate. If they can get him as bench coach, I'm less concerned about Robin as our manager. I never really understood the Parent signing and this would correct for that.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Oct 19, 2015 -> 08:03 AM) Or the Sox could move Eaton to left and Trayce to center and move Melky on his way. That would improve the D significantly. Avi, in his first full season, hit a whole .34 OPS less than Melky and had twice the number of assists. Even better, sell high on Eaton- rather trade him to plug holes than Quintana. What's the opposite of hero worshipping? Because trading one of the better young OFs in the game under control for multiple years at a below market rate to "plug holes" and open up everyday spots for both Trayce & Avi would be disastrous. Sign Justin Upton to a 6 year, $130M deal and make Trayce the 4th until he proves otherwise.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 07:00 PM) He would come cheaper than Zobrist or Murphy. I'm rather certain Murphy will get 4 years. I think Zobrist will as well because there is no draft pick compensation and every single team could use him. Victor Martinez got 4 years last year at 36 and he can play roughly zero positions. Wasn't Victor Martinez arguably the best hitter in baseball the year before he his free agency?

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 08:24 AM) Just as a side note for those who think Trayce and his impeccable defense is a fourth Of (I mean how could he possibly approach Melky value?) and the rest of the prospects who aren't mL starter quality by 24 should be dumped, Frazier was modest in AA and AAA at age 26. I'm not ready to rule out Trayce as a regular, but completely ignoring his minor league track record and citing one outlier isn't going to convince me he is. If we're serious about competing next year, he should begin the season as our 4th OF and force his way into the lineup. And that could very well happen if LaRoche is retained as our DH. RF should be an area of focus this offseason as a potential spot for an impact bat.

QUOTE (GREEDY @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 03:53 AM) Can the Sox get Frazier without giving up Quintana or Rodon? Both of those guys are worth significantly more than Frazier. If the Sox do go after Todd, it better for be minor leaguers. I'd actually be ok with a package like Montas, Micah (if the Sox seem Sanchez as our 2B), & Guerrero. I think we can afford to trade some minor league pitching as long as we hold onto Fulmer & Adams and as I mentioned Micah could be blocked. I don't think that deal would have gotten it done a few years ago, but it today's environment where prospects are coveted it just might work. Still risky given Frazier is only under control for 2 years and the upside of us guys involved on our end.

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 10:31 PM) Great post, but it's too bad this board ridicules people for supporting the Cubs for whatever reason. In reality, we're better off encouraging baseball discussion instead of calling people "f***ing idiots" for being happy for the Cubs. For example: Not only is the post complete garbage (There is enough support from both sides of town to support two successful teams), it's not a good look for the White Sox fanbase and it's not a good look for this board. A number of us love the game and love the White Sox and don't need to justify who we support and what we watch otherwise. I'm here to discuss the White Sox (no matter how abysmal they look) and the rest of baseball with people from similar upbringings and interests. We should not ever question the White Sox fandom of a person because we are not to judge. Lol...you actually suggested that the Cubs winning the World Series could bring out more Sox fans next year. That has to be one of the dumbest theories in Soxtalk history and proves how out of touch you are with the Chicago sports scene. I will stand by what I said, any Sox fan wanting the Cubs to win a World Series is a f***ing idiot. Our fanbase is incredibly small considering the size of the Chicago market and will continue to shrink if the Cubs win a World Series and/or go on an extended run of success. How many lifelong Blackhawks fans have been born during their recent mini-dynasty? Why would the Cubs, second only to the Bears in Chicago, be any different? There are thousands of young, impressionable fans looking for a team to invest in and an elite Cubs club is a pretty attractive option. A portion of these fans will go on to become season ticket holders and ultimately a critical source of revenue. Beyond these long-term implications, the Sox have a TV deal that expires in 2019. The new TV contract is of incredible importance to our organization's ability to compete in the mid-term, so it's absolutely critical that the front office build up interest/viewership in the team between now and then. If you actually think strong Cubs ratings don't have a direct impact on our own, then I don't know what to tell you. By the way, get off your high horse. I've seen you spew this "bad look" s*** in multiple threads involving a variety of subjects. My rant, if you want to call it that, has zero impact on the fanbase or board's image. The simple notion that it somehow does is beyond laughable. For someone who claims "we are not to judge", you sure do like to call people out on a regular basis.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 03:26 PM) They offered Samardzija ~90 million. Danks and LaRoche off the books after 2015 is almost 30 million off the books. Sox attendance went up over 1,000 per game from '14-'15. They were over 130 million in 2012 and 2014 and that's over 150 million in today's market. That's not including the profits they've mades since then. Sox operating costs are minuscule. The one thing that is worrisome about the Sox money situation is the lack of advertising interest with the team. The Sox have serious money coming to them in 2019 so if they have to back load a deal to make it happen it shouldn't be an issue. That's basically protocol for most teams anyways. The new signage might improve their advertising revenue. I also think the organization will be very motivated to build up interest in the team prior to their TV deal expiring, which could mean going into the red a bit for a few years. BTW, love the Upton idea. I'd rather have him than Heyward given I expect their costs to be.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 11, 2015 -> 11:32 AM) I did find this headline at the White Sox web site for their latest story interesting: "Sox to rely on improvement of core in 2016 Club unlikely to make drastic changes, believes pieces are in place to compete." Who knows if this means anything for sure, but I will say if they do very little and actually believe this, another bad April start and U.S. Cellular Field will be a ghost town by June 2016. Mark While I wouldn't take that article as anything more than a typical Merkin fluff piece, I will say that Hahn & company are clearly incompetent if they actually believe that minor changes are all that are needed to right this ship.

I'm going to come out and say it, but if you claim to be a true Sox fan and are cheering for the Cubs this postseason then you are a f***ing idiot. Our beloved franchise has always been the ugly step-child of the Chicago sports scene and a Cubs World Series victory would make us even more irreverent. Go ahead and come up with some lame excuse on why it's ok to cheer for them, but you are literally rooting against the well-being of your own franchise. There is no good that comes to the Sox from the Cubs winning the World Series, none whatsoever. It's absolutely disgusting how many "Sox fans" I know are jumping on this bandwagon and it's even worse how many members on this site, a forum that is home to some of the most die-hard Sox fans in the world, are pro-Cubs right now.

I'm going to throw it out there, but what about Chris Davis? He's the best hitter available in free agency, can technically play multiple positions (allows both him & Abreu in the lineup in NL parks), and his addition would allow us to go defense-oriented at a couple of spots. Sign Zobrist and trade for a catcher (will use Derek Norris here) and go with something like this: 1. Eaton, CF 2. Zobrist, 3B 3. Abreu, DH/1B 4. Davis, 1B/DH 5. Cabrera, LF 6. Thompson, RF 7. Ramirez, SS 8. Norris, C 9. Sanchez, 2B Huge question marks in the bottom half of the lineup, but at least they're all strong defenders. But that 1 - 5 would be very potent and could probably carry the load.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 09:44 PM) WAR is a counting stat Balta. In those three seasons Sale made 30, 26 and 31 starts, which brings him to a WAR total (counting stat) that is less than his peers that you mentioned. WAR/200 IP, starts/season Kershaw ---------7.02, 31 Sale ------------- 5.49, 29 Scherzer -------- 5.34, 32.67 Kluber -----------5.19, 30 Price ------------- 5.16, 31 Felix -------------4.49, 32 I have no problem with you saying Sale isn't a once in a generation pitcher and I agree with you but the argument that there is a several pitchers that have been better than him is silly. He's missed some starts over strains and the team being careful but should he really be punished for that? The several pitchers that you mentioned as better than him, over your preferred sample, have been more effective on a cumulative basis but on a rate basis, Kershaw is the only pitcher who has been better than Sale. Great post.

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 02:22 PM) Astros and Cubs for me. I don't hold grudges against teams that don't matter. Lol what? Cubs don't matter? Guess we aren't competing for the same fans.

I'm not sure why so many people seem think the only way to evaluate a manager is by wins & losses. Talent is always going to be the primary driver of on-field results, so using it as a basis of manager performance is pretty stupid. Instead, focus on the things the manager can control. First, Robin has shown time and time again he is a terrible in-game manager. Second, his teams have consistently played fundamentally poor baseball, which he deserves some (not all) blame for. If you actually watch the games, these issues become clear as day. Doesnt matter if the Sox were to win 100 or lose 100, the poor decision making and lack of preparation/accountability would still make Robin a bad manager.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 5, 2015 -> 09:59 AM) MLB teams use coaching firings as misdirections. They fire your manager to appease the mob, despite the fact that there's tons of evidence -- observational, anecdotal, sabermetric, and otherwise -- that suggests that the manager has very little, if anything, to do with how well the team performs. Why are you all playing into this? If you want to hold the White Sox accountable for losing, do it by asking why we have Avisail Garcia. Do it by pointing out that there were signs that Adam LaRoche or Alexei Ramirez would fall off a cliff. The players are the ones that are failing. Changing managers will do nothing to help your team, so stop letting the media and PR department "satisfy" you with manager-personnel decisions. Mind sharing this evidence? Would be interested in reading up on this.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Oct 4, 2015 -> 08:33 AM) We haven't. We need to lose today, and Seattle needs to win. QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 4, 2015 -> 08:33 AM) If we lose today and Seattle wins we can still get the 10th pick. Thank you. I hate cheering against the Sox, but today will be one of those rare days I do.

For the love of God, please tell me we haven't been eliminated from protected pick status!?

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 3, 2015 -> 11:14 AM) My way-too-early opening day starting lineup prediction for Sox: CF- Eaton 3B- Prado 1B- Abreu LF- Melky C- Wieters DH- LaRoche RF- Thompson SS- Ramirez 2B- Sanchez SP- Sale 3 main offseason acquisitions will be Wieters, Prado (trade) and Buehrle Don't see this team taking a step forward until they add legit impact bat to pair with Abreu. IMO, we have to sign one of the big four OFs or Chris Davis, unless they want to go the trade route for a guy like Puig. Once you land that guy, it becomes a matter of filling holes, but Wieters & Prado alone isn't moving the needle enough.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 05:50 PM) Seriously. Our three biggest contracts ever add up to a good over/under for Heyward. 194.5 what you guys got? Not targeted at you raBBit, but the Sox have gone after big fish in the past but simply couldn't land them. Tanaka is the most recent example, but there are few others like Hunter & Fukudome. Also, I'm almost positive the Sox were willing to go 10/$190M on A-Rod before he signed with the Rangers. Point is while the Sox haven't signed a lot of crazy contracts in the past, it doesn't mean they haven't been willing to. And with their TV deal expiring in a few years, they should be very motivated to build up interest in the team beforehand and that could very well mean being major players in free agency the next few off-seasons.

Interesting note about Parent likely being replaced with a Spanish speaking bench coach. Anyone got any ideas on who could fill that role? Would love to add a guy with previous manager experience to help Robin with the in-game stuff.

I'm sorry, but in what other industry does management come out and blame the fans for their inferior product? It's complete bulls*** to blame attendence for our lack of resources. Almost all successful organations had to invest in the quality of their product before building a strong customer base. Here we get the "I can't spend a dollar if I have 50 cents" crap. Any other company would have gone out of business a long time ago with that mindset, but since this is baseball us loyal fans have no choice but to accept management's shortcomings and support the team. However, those who simply view White Sox baseball as another form entertainment can weigh their alternatives and spend their limited disposal income elsewhere. And until our ownership group decides to commit their own resources (not just what the P&L allows) towards building a premier White Sox product, there is no reason to expect fan support from anything but the most hardcore of fans.

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Sep 28, 2015 -> 10:21 PM) Cutler isn't going anywhere. Pace has too many holes to fill. If he thinks he can get a franchise guy this year, I may be wrong, but I don't see it. Cutler isn't part of the future "good Bears" so you dump his ass if have the chance.

Good to here about Cruz's defense at SS, no reason to switch him to 3B just yet.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 27, 2015 -> 11:23 AM) Isn't fWAR considered better than bWAR? I think most sabes (as Greg calls them) feel fWAR is better because it values pitchers on what they specifically control (HRs, BBs, & Ks) and pulls out most of the impact defense has on their bottom line performance.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Sep 27, 2015 -> 11:20 AM) Okay - trade Quintana. No objection. But who takes Rodon's spot? Pass on rushing Fulmer (who needs to get his delivery straightened out) or Adams (who's a ways away). Of course teams have veterans. But winning teams aren't built with veterans. They plug a hole or two or provide depth. Building with vets is what the Sox tried to do and what the fans want them to do (I can't wait until Todd Frazier and Lucroy are put on the block this winter...the hero-worship will break records; and if someone mentions Longoria......). As for Eaton, I simply don't believe he plays to his offensive numbers. Thus, it would be a value trade. Thompson is a better CF than he is anyway. Okay, don't trade him for prospects. Trade him for an equivalent 3b. Can you elaborate on this "don't believe he plays to his offensive numbers"? Not sure what that really means. Also, as great as Thompson has looked so far, it would foolish IMO to hand him a starting job next year. Let him be your 4th OF and platoon partner for LaRoche (playing CF those days, with Eaton in LF & Melky at DH). If the need arises, then you give him a chance as an everyday starter. Given the question marks with this lineup, we're going to need a deep bench to hedge some of our risks and Trayce fills one of those roles perfectly.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Sep 26, 2015 -> 07:55 AM) Agree. The Sox improved 10 games making small trades of one young player for another. I still have no idea why they reversed course of the winter of 2014 and did moves for veterans that weakened the organization. Now they can move Eaton for probably two young promising players. Like a pinhooker- buy the Yearling and flipping for multiples of value at two. Dude, prospects flop all the time. You trade Eaton for two of them you'll be lucky to even get one that turns out as good as him in the long-run. Sure, there's a small chance you end up with a better player or both prospects work out, but the odds are incredibly low. If you're going to take that gamble, you might as well trade the rest of your assets (Sale, Quintana, & Abreu) and straight-up rebuild, because you're pushing your timeline back another year or two. As disappointing as this season has been, we still have a playoff caliber pitching staff in place. Putting together a legit offense will be challenge, but one that's not necessarily impossible if they're willing to commit some resources to fixing it (cash & minor league pitching). Again, if ownership & the front office aren't willing to do that, then blow this f***ing thing up, as you definitely don't want to get stuck in the middle.