Chicago White Sox

If you want to feel any worse about the Jacob Gonzalez pick, don’t look at Law’s rankings: 14: Teel - 54th overall 15: Gonzalez - Unranked 16: Eldridge - 85th overall 17: Bradfield - 64th overall 18: Wilken - 71st overall 19: Taylor - 56th overall 20: Nimmala - 59th overall 24: Waldrep - 80th overall 27: Miller - 89th overall

He’s definitely the lowest on Montgomery out of all the major outlets, but good to see Quero, Ramos, & Nastrini where they are.

I hope he does!

Baseball Prospectus write-up on Fletcher. They have him as the 9th ranked prospect in the Diamondbacks system.

We have multiple 45 FV pitching prospects…I’d say four of them. However, if you look at the bust rate on prospects like these, that’s really not all that much. It’s a numbers game and IMO we don’t have enough of them. And to be fully transparent, I wouldn’t disagree that our farm is even weaker in terms of OF talent. I just wouldn’t rob from our minor league pitching supply to get it. And if we felt it was key to trade Mena, I’d prefer moving him for a younger, higher ceiling OF prospect. Obviously not a popular take here, but it’s how I feel given where we are at in our rebuild.

Buddy, I don’t think I “baseball” better than anyone. I just disagree with your claim that we have a surplus of pitching. You seem to be taking this back & forth way too personal when it’s just standard message board debate. I have zero problem with you or anyone for that matter attacking my opinions…god knows I’ve had plenty of dumb ones in the past. I don’t like it when people try to misconstrue what others are saying though and you keep doing just that. As for Mena, sure I’ll call him a good prospect. I think me not liking the trade would already imply that, but if it needs to be written so be it (hopefully no one makes fun of me too much!). As for the “second tier” comment you seem to be anchored on, I would place him in a tier with guys like Eder, Pallette, & Cannon. That doesn’t make him a bad prospect, but simply puts him behind Schultz & Nastrini in terms of status. Also, Mena having flaws like a mediocre fastball doesn’t make him a bad prospect either….it just puts him in that second tier.

What in the f*** are you talking about? What assertion have I backed off of? I just don’t think that this group of pitching prospects represents some sort of surplus when our major league rotation has zero guys controllable beyond the 2025 season. Never once referred to them as “laughable”, but misconstruing statements appears to be par for the course with you. But for perspective, we kicked off our previous rebuild with basically eight 50 FV and above pitching prospects. Several of these kids peaked out at 60 FV type prospects. The talent gap between that group and this one is tremendous and that previous group didn’t exactly provide us with a surplus of pitching. That all may change after potential Cease & Robert trades, but the current group is not nearly deep enough IMO to be trading from and feeling good about it. Again, this is just my opinion. It’s weird that my opinion is so triggering for you, but I can assure you I don’t complain about trades for “engagement”…lol.

Let’s agree to disagree here. If you feel we have a surplus of starting pitching, then I don’t think fundamentally we see eye to eye on where things currently stand.

You keep saying he isn’t “slappy” but he’s probably a 10 to 15 HR guy max and that’s below average for a corner OF. I’m not worried he’s Nick Madrigal, I’m worried he’s another Benintendi type who provides sub-optimal power in one of our few corner spots. Is that really not a fair take?

That’s a fair call-out and if he’s above average in CF then I can dig the move a lot more. I guess I’m skeptical his CF defense would be that good given the lack of speed, but would love to be wrong on that because the bat would profile much better in CF.

No doubt the OF is a problem, but we also need a ton of pitching for the next six years is my point. And if I were trading a prospect like Mena, I’d prefer a younger, higher variance OF prospect who offers more ceiling and better fits the timeline. But your point on “just how little talent” Getz has to work is the key thing here. We have limited prospect currency and just traded one of our better ones to improve our major league OF depth when we’re still a few years out from winning. This is simply not how I would have utilized my resources and it’s the not player I personally would have targeted. But the good news is I’m not a major league GM or scout and don’t have the knowledge of the player that Barfield does, so hopefully my read here is wrong and this works out well.

Lol…we have a surplus of SP? I’m going to need you to walk me through that because by my count we don’t have a single SP who is controllable beyond the 2025 season and we have two pitching prospects who are generally considered to be 50 FV or above. I think there are quite a few 40 to 45 FV arms who could ascend upwards in the coming years, but I wouldn’t use the word “surplus” to describe of collection of pitching prospects. And Mena is a part of that second tier and certainly has question marks…I have never once said otherwise. I just think we need a mass of prospects with MOR ceilings or above to eventually fill out a rotation and he was part of that numbers game. And feeling like a 100 plate appearance sample size has any real predictive value is humorous to me, especially when the batted ball data suggests he got super lucky. Regardless, that’s besides the point. I don’t like the move because I think the upside of Fletcher is limited and I don’t see how it moves the needle enough to actually accelerate things. Never once did I say Fletcher was a bad player or should come free, so no idea why you’re making that jab. Ultimately, I want to win a championship and not just win a crappy AL Central and trading a 21 year arm with some upside for a lower ceiling, 26 year old, platoon RF when the rest of puzzle won’t be ready for a few years screams the latter.

But to be clear here, I’m not viewing this through a 2024 lens. I’m questioning the long-term logic of it. I’d be perfectly fine giving Piller & Phillips the role for a couple of months until Colas warrants a shot because next year doesn’t really matter. Yes, Fletcher is a lot more fun and exciting than those guys, but is that near-term upgrade worth giving up a top five pitching prospect and one who is already in AAA, who is young & athletic, and has already put up 135 innings in a season? We have zero long-term starters in the rotation at the moment. We will have to fill an entire rotation from scratch and with an owner who is completely against making big commitments to pitchers in free agency. I’m sure the front office is skeptical of Mena’s ceiling and feels it is selling high on him with this trade, but I think I’d rather take the gamble on him finding another tick with the fastball and give myself another potential rotation option in the near-term than solve RF with what I deem to be a low impact solution. In other words, if this was “selling high”, I don’t like it and struggle to see how it fits into the long term puzzle.

I don’t envision Robert being on this team two years from now, which is part of the reason I don’t like this move from a broader roster design standpoint.

You’re missing the point here. I am preaching patience. I’d rather see what we have in the barely 21 year old Mena because at the major league level I don’t see a quick path to contention and don’t feel a low ceiling, 26 year old platoon OF changes that trajectory. I was fine with a Pillar / Phillips combo for two months in a lost season before handing over the role to Colas for one final test run. If that didn’t work out, you hope that Cease and/or Robert trades help net a high ceiling OF prospect. The point is where things stand now, we didn’t need to solve RF immediately and we definitely didn’t another low power corner OF with Benintendi stuck in the fold. I’m sure that Fletcher will be a useful player, but I don’t see how this fits into some broader strategy when you also factor in the prospect cost. To me, this feels more like trying to build Rome in a day than the opposite. But again, I hope I’m wrong here and this little dude becomes the next Spanky and immediately solves RF.

How many HRs do you expect to get from him and Benintendi next year? If you put the baseline at 25, I’m probably taking the under and that’s pretty terrible output for a corner OF. For example, the average team got 43 HRs out of their corner OF spots and the 75th percentile was at 37.5 HRs. Only two teams got less than 25 HRs out of their corner OFs and that was us and the Guardians.

Baseball Prospectus had DeLoach ranked 11th & Berroa ranked 15th. Here are the write-ups for those interested:

It terrifies me because Getz doesn’t appear to value power all that much and we are probably going to get the least amount of HRs in the corner OF spots of any team in baseball. And if all goes well, this is our OF alignment for the next four years. Where is all the power coming from? So yes, I find the early signs of roster construction to be highly concerning.

Oh no doubt, but I wouldn’t call him a sure thing. He’s probably got a 4th OF floor but anything above that is a huge question mark IMO. Again, I hope I’m way off and Barfield feels he’s a guy who’s on the cusp of a breakout.

102 whole plate appearances of major league success and his wOBA exceeded his xwOBA by nearly 80 points during that time. I hope I’m wrong, but I’m not sure why so many people are excited by this.

He was basically a league average hitter through 2020 and parlayed that into an extension. He’s been a 70 wRC+ hitter since then.

Mena has been multiple years below league average his entire career and was the single youngest arm to pitch in AAA last year. His stats should be taken with a ton of context.

Let’s hope he doesn’t have an offensive collapse at age 27 like his brother.

Benintendi’s only purpose on this roster is to be the leadoff hitter and I highly doubt he gets moved off that spot.

It’s not huge dollars in the grand scheme of things, but it’s highly problematic for us. We got to hope that he rebounds this year and Getz proactively dumps before any further regression can take place.