chisoxfan09

Hell Hoyer may ask for both if AGon is raking for eample at the all star break.

I am thinking JR would not go higher than maybe 4/80 or 5/100. I can´t recall any long term monster deals other than Albert Belle and he got taken there.

This is the part of the whole discussion I am not sure on if it ever gets this far. Do the Pads want controllable MLB ready talent that can contribute this year or at the latest as August/Sep callups, or they want toolsy prospects like JM with a ton of upside but who are 2 years away at the least? I say the first argument because most posts I see and what Kevin Towers was saying as the direction they were headed in before he was fired. OK if push comes to shove and we have to include Mitchell instead of a Flowers or Hudson then it is worth the gamble, but AGon would have to be open to discussing an extension.

Matchoo I think at least some of the value in the prospects we have considered lies in the fact that they are all going to be controlled at MLB minimum salaries for at least their 3 Pre-Arbitration years. That is why I concentrate on listing those types of prospects in most of my posts. Since the Pads are obviously in rebuilding mode and won´t be able to bring their payroll up to a minimum where they can lure free agents then they have to concentrate on building via the farm, whether it is home grown or acquired via trade. I have some hope since I have posted efore that both their former GM Kevin Towers and now their new owner kinda both say (Towers more) that it is a question of time before they trade AGon. But time will tell.

BINGO!!!

Wouldn´t it stand to reason he would actually increase his HR production at the Cell even slightly, especially to Right Field?

Just because they have worked together and know each other too well does not mean an automatic guarantee Epstein will land AGon. A slight advantage maybe but I say you never know in MLB.

DA, I hear ya but the other main point to all of this is market size and income potential or past income. JR has been successful already and has a ring and the Pads cannot hope to break the 40 million dollar number in payroll for at least another year and maybe up to 50-55 at best. They cannot hope to lure free agents that way (Marquee ones) and hope to pay arbitration-eligible players who start to produce in the coming 2 years. So that is why the other method of compensation for them is to look at Pre-Arb players who have under control for peanuts for at least 2 if not 3 years. You get that with Hudson/Flowers/MOrel already (9 full pre-arb years) which in today´s market is nothing to laugh at. OK we all know that delivering on potential is a crap shoot but some of the that should be cleared up at least 2 months into the season of at the end of May. If we really look at this also objectively just as the Pads are not in any immediate pressure to unload AGon I would imagine KW is thinking he is not under any huge pressure to try and deliver AGon to the fans. Dunno just my view of it all.

DA, to be objective when I got laughed out of a couple of other boards for just (Just I say) proposing a base of Hudson/Flowers/Morel to fellow Pads fans, they are chimed in with that exact demand. Meaning the headliner going their way had to be our untouchable (Beckham of course). So it goes without saying that these posts always have two sides to them.

Isn´t that the fun of this whole thing?

If AGon is rakin in July as all indications point to, and the Sox as expected are in the thick of the race I would hope KW would have that trick up his sleeve to at least try to dangle a package of players in front of Hoyer. Who knows if the most mentioned prospects are raking in A/AA/AAA, then we have more leverage. But another thing I hope happens if (Huge IF) by some miracle we can pull this off would be for KW to convince JR the need of signing AGon to at least a 4-5 year extension. That is gonna be at least 20-22 million per year range. One has hopes.

Apart from everything that has been posted here I think another burning desire AGon has to have is to be somewhere where the priority will be winning. I can´t see that with the Pads until 2012 or beyond when hopefully their new owner will be able to afford an annual payroll of at least 60-70 million (Besides AGon will have been long gone as a FA). I don´t for a minute underestimate the value the fanbase sees in AGon in SD but loyalty aside the guy is a competitor and is going to want to be positioned where he has the highest chance of winning. I take Jake Peavy and Doc Holliday as two recent examples (Peavy maybe not so much because the money factored into ownership´s decision to dangle him and he had a full NTC so this argument could go either way) of professional athletes growing up in one org, being bred in fornt their respective franchises and being comfortale to the point where money was not the primary factor. Things can change and more often than not do.

The 3 names I have been hearing most often mentioned in any base package (I actually start most Agon threads with these three) are Huddie, Flowers, and Morel. At the moment what the Padres really need are quality MLB ready talent that are under control. All three of those have at least 3 Pre-Arb years left and I am not sure if they stack up well with what Boston will offer. One of the keys may be number of Pre-arb years the prospects traded (If it goes down) have and if the Pads are willing to accept a tliitle less quality for more years of control. I thought since they traded Kouz they would need a good 3rd base prospect but I could be mistaken. Anyway my 2 cents again.

More fodder on Agon. I know pipe down. Couldn't resist though. http://fantasybaseball.usatoday.com/conten...MLB&id=3593 There is a quote from Moored that they will have trade Agon sooner rather than later in the 3rd paragraph down. You never know. Full article with second link here. http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/feb/03/1s3sullivan/

For good, bad or indifferent there are still 2 plus untilthe season starts to sign Thome if he is still available. And then there is the trading deadline. Just sayin...

Post removed as it is a duplicate. Sorry Mods. But seriously Ozzie gets more stubborn every year. I really think KW has something up his sleave but maybe it will be at the trading deadline. Who knows.

I for one am optimistic that DV will have a good ST and benefit from playing in the hitting friendly park at Charlotte, but whether he would be MLB ready after a year in AAA is still to be seen. ANyone know how he is doing at Camp Cora?

Well he should get plenty of time with Coop as an ST invite. I hope he does well personally and turns his career around. Long relief would be perfect for him towards the end of the season in the bigs if he does well in ST and AAA, but that's a big IF.

Sorry if I mis-interpretted your words. Do you know by chance if the Charlotte pitching coach has good fundamentals or a track record of getting the most out of his pitchers. I would tend to not think so because they have had poor ERA over the past few years.

The thing is Balta, Floyd did not have much MLB experience prior to that IIRC, but Cabrera has had 5 years to get it right. Time will tell and with only an MILB contract it is worth the gamble.

Wouldn´t he have better potential at long relief if he did well in Charlotte? Then I could see making a case for Coop working with but only if he is productive in AAA. Not sayin he is a bust already but pretty close.

Scouting report (Recent) from SB Nation: Scouting Report Assets * Owns a huge frame with great reach that makes him seem to tower over hitters. Owns a nasty fastball and slider, both with good movement. Can be simply dominant when he gets rolling. Flaws * As wild and inconsistent as they come. Sometimes totally loses the strike zone. High walk totals hurt him. Can lose focus with both hitters and base-runners. Career Potential * An ace-level arm but a back-of-rotation producer. Not as promising as I had hoped because every reference to potential looks at that horrendous WHIP ratio. Must be a duplicate headcase like Zambrano but without the attitude. I mean when he loses it he really loses it. Oh well so much for some initial "Reclamation Project off the Scrap Heap" excitement. But who knows. For around 400K you can let him go as has everyone else. Late post- is anyone on the forum aware of any recent "Pitcher Reclamation Projects" who suffered extreme wildness but were tweaked by a new coach and wound up developing some level of control??

Link: http://www.fantasysp.com/player/mlb/Daniel_Cabrera/748510 If Cabrera can learn to harness his wildness and at least control his pitches to go 6+ innings per outing then he is capable (Can develop potential) to be a good backend starter. I don´t really know what can heppen because he seems to be a headcase but worth exploring. He has sure plunked his share of opposing batters for sure and he has a horrible K/BB ratio. He kinda reminds me of a poor man´s Zambrano but I have not seen him on film lose it emotionally (Please correct me if I am wrong). I have seen some MLB highlights where his fastball has really good movement (up to 96 MPH but on average 93) and his slider or change up is nasty at times. The slider seems to go down and in on lefties with good sink. Dunno but maybe a stealthy move and he can get it together in the right environment. With an MILB contract it can´t be costing us more than the minimum 400K. Thoughts??

DMB, you beat me to it. I was just going to post this with link. This narrows the list of available candidates down a bit more. I kinda think a Thome one year rental could be a possibility at a home town discount now. NOt much else left on the market with regards to high OBP and HR's from the left side.

KInd of interesting since not much is going on. I have not seen other clubs doing any Pre Spring Training stuff but KW it seems wanted to organize a mini-camp for pitchers and have CJ Retherford do the catching with Coop supervising. I think it is great they are giving a couple of the releivers and some MILB staff an extra workout. Link: http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/artic...sp&c_id=cws Article: By Scott Merkin / MLB.com 01/08/10 6:35 PM EST CHICAGO -- Mention the word minicamp, especially in connection to a professional sports team in Chicago, and images of football players working out at Halas Hall in Lake Forest, Ill., immediately come to mind. This weekend, though, the White Sox are slightly altering that image. Eleven White Sox pitchers and two or three catchers have made their way to Camelback Ranch in Glendale, Ariz., in order to take part in this voluntary get together. Select Minor League hurlers were invited, but ultimately, it was their choice to attend. White Sox pitching coach Don Cooper, bullpen coach Juan Nieves, Minor League pitching coordinator Kirk Champion and Minor League pitching coach Curt Hasler will be conducting this combination weekend workout/skull session, which took root back in September during the mini-organization meetings in Chicago. "[General manager] Kenny [Williams] brought it up in Chicago, and it's something him and Coop talked about at times over the years," said White Sox Minor League Director Buddy Bell, who also will be at the minicamp. "It just really hasn't gotten done. "It's great for us in player development. Whenever we can get the Major League staff involved with Minor League guys, it's great. It helps the connection. The guys in the minicamp, we consider them prospects. "We have quite a few other guys who could get to the big leagues as well," Bell said. "With the teaching part, it's only three or four days, so we can't have too many out there. It gives the Major League guys an opportunity to see them." Relievers Matt Thornton and J.J. Putz, who both reside in Arizona, were set to stop by the White Sox Spring Training facility during the weekend, and Jake Peavy's presence also was a possibility. One of the more interesting twists from this weekend involves C.J. Retherford, the solid-hitting Minor League infielder who launched the game-winning home run in the 2009 Arizona Fall League title game. Much like his work during instructional league action, Retherford will have a chance to catch at the minicamp. "He did a good job at the instructional league, although I don't know about his transfer and throws," said Bell of Retherford's catching. "He's seen as more of a super-utility guy. He can play anywhere on the field, and catching makes him even more valuable." Pitchers such as Daniel Hudson, Lucas Harrell, Sergio Santos and Freddy Dolsi, all of whom have their sights set on the seventh and final White Sox bullpen spot, are some of the individuals who will be taking part at Camelback. Not much throwing off the mound, if any, will take place since it's early in the throwing programs for most hurlers. But the program will be a good early focus on the 2010 season, especially in a specific discipline that will be key to the White Sox success. "I'm under no illusions, in that it always comes down to pitching," Cooper said. "If we want to get somewhere, we better be good [as a pitching staff]. If not, we are going home. This is normal stuff. Pitching is the backbone." "We'll get three good days in and get some baseball life in the blood for January," said Champion of the minicamp. "It's a good way to take advantage of this new facility."