chisoxfan09

It looks like the Mets are looking seriously to bring Delgado back. http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/met...lgado-1.1683971

I am all for keeping the core 4 together but this is going to weigh in at the end of the season if Danks1 does not agree to an extension buying out his remaining Arb years and maybe 1-2 FA years. And since this core is perfectly balanced with righty-lefty-righty-lefty it makes opposing lineups more humble from a percentages point of view. I really see Hudson starting off in AAA then sharing some of the 5 spot load with Sweaty Freddie. As much as I think we have a good series of trade chips I think now at the July trade deadline we will know what we have and what we need. I don´t see Hudson becoming a fulltime starter until 2011 and that after a good look in ST, AAA and some spot starts this year and long bullpen relief.

J4L, just found this interesting piece on BA. Hudson is considered the 14th ranked prospect in their weekly piece "Prospect Hot Sheet" dated Sep 10 2009. Take it for what it is. I think it gives a good argument for Hudson being in the top 50 going into next season. Link : http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prosp...009/268861.html

J4L, I really do hear ya and that is why I backed off of this Agon talk. If he does pan out this year then it will certainly or most certainly mean going into 2011 he can lock down the 5 spot or even 4th (Hey crazier things have happened and we have not signed JDANKS1 yet to a long term extension). Time will tell. But as noted in previous post if he does very well in AAA (Maybe some time in MLB) that will for sure raise his value.

This is the part that is really hard to decide upon. Do we wait and let Huddie develop into a solid front line starter or do we go for broke since it is obvious that we are maybe one key and critical piece away from the ALCS/WS (KW is in "Win Now" mode)? I have backed off the Agon stuff now as I thought it was water under the bridge. But the fact the Huddie won the MILBy award gives me hope that it will increase his value to the point where he can become the key center piece in a run for Agon at the trading deadline. I know wrong thread but this is relevant to the Agon stuff and to Huddie. Or on the flip side you have him locked up cheap at least until the end of 2013 (3 arb years plus 1 pre-arb which should not be terribly expensive).

Agon anyone? I know enough already. Couldn´t resist.

Kalapse, most excellent work. Just one clarification for me if I could ask. The standard MLB contract (Standard because I see International Free Agents and people like Alexei getting 4 years) is 6 years (3 Pre-Arb/3 Arb)? To rephrase I think this only applies to amateur players who start in MILB or get picked up in the yearly June draft? Then once they play as you say 172 days of service that counts as 1 option gone? See I get the options and the ARB/Pre-Arb mixed up. Thanx for your time.

OK, I can see your point on Holmberg being a wildcard or longshot but how do you come to a probability of only 10-15% for Maya?

I am a little confused about this one and wanted to pose this topic on the FutureSox board as a general topic but with specific reference to our farm system. It has been generally concluded that all three of an Hudson, Tyler Flowers, and Jordan Danks our among our top 5 farm prospects. But my confusion lies as to how an external supposedly objective site like "Baseball America" or "Baseball Prospectus" come up with their farm system ranking and ratings. Is it a combination of the overall system and then each individual rating for each prospect? I mean I visit other forums as do the majority of us to occasionally make fantasy trade proposals but lately other posters or knowledgeable people rebut the Sox farm and say neither Hudson or Flowers are 5 star prospects. Hence my question. I used to think if either cracked the BA top 50 then they were automatically 5 star prospects but I guess not. Can someone help me understand, Kenny Hates Prospects maybe?

Think of this: Not factoring in your top 4 at the moment but looking at 2012-beyond it could be Huddie/Maya/Holmberg if he improves as 3/5ths of your starting rotation waiting in the wings. Has some good potential and upside if we sign Maya. I know Cubano is pretty high on him so we can have cheap 4/5 star prospects for the post Peavy/Buerhle period. Just sayin none of this is going to pan out but it does give us a solid foundation from AAA to the bigs.

If we sign Maya and he has a fantastic ST as does Huddie, then we literally have a couple of 4/5 star chips at our disposal come the Summer trade dealine (31 July). Pitching is always going to be the most precious commodity you can have. I think having both Hudson and Maya waiting in the wings (Provided we sign Maya cheap and for 3/4 years) will put us in even better shape. I still have hope we sign a decent left handed bat for either a split DH-1B role or exclusively DH. I have lost hope we will go after Agon. But if we sign Maya it lessens potentially the pain of losing Hudson.

To be honest KW is quite excited about the rotation this year. But Coop tempers that with realism that until they win the division or World Series nothing is accomplished: Link - http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/artic...sp&c_id=cws Content - By Scott Merkin / MLB.com 12/22/09 2:55 PM EST CHICAGO -- To listen to the White Sox glowing reviews concerning their starting rotation entering 2010, it sounds as if this bunch assembled might be as understatedly spectacular as the front five from 2005. And there's a parade through downtown Chicago -- in front of an adoring 2.5 million fans, along with a World Series trophy -- as a testament to that particular group of talented arms. "I've never had this feeling before going into an offseason," said general manager Ken Williams of the high-quality starting rotation he already had in place entering October. "You are as good as you can possibly be, one through five. Actually, one through six." "I don't know if I've ever been as excited as I am going into a season with the starting staff we have," White Sox left-handed ace Mark Buehrle said. "Jake Peavy and [Mark] Buehrle, [John] Danks, [Gavin] Floyd and [Freddy] Garcia?" said Gordon Beckham, listing off the rotation he will be supporting at his new second-base defensive position. "Come on. They all can pitch." The Red Sox starting trio of John Lackey, Jon Lester and Josh Beckett has a more powerful presence than the White Sox main three of Peavy, Buehrle and either Floyd or Danks. The Yankees' trio of CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett and Andy Pettitte is coming off an impressive World Series championship run during which they started all 15 postseason contests, and now adds Javier Vazquez to the mix. In terms of absolute rotation talent, though, adding "Big Game" Garcia and rookie Daniel Hudson to the opening four gives the White Sox one Cy Young winner, eight combined All-Star selections and the deepest rotation in all the American League. At least, it looks this way on paper. That mysterious paper doesn't seem to be as impressive to pitching coach Don Cooper as it is to others. He'll want to judge these early kudos in late October or early November, if things go as planned. "Are you asking me if I buy into this best staff stuff? Absolutely not," said Cooper during a recent phone interview. "It's for experts and magazine writers and columnists to voice their opinion. "Our best staff was in 2005, and why? Well, it's because we won a championship. Our second best was in 2008, when we won the division. If we don't get into the playoffs, none of it is worth [anything]." Plenty of reasons for ultimate optimism do exist. Peavy posted a 3-0 record with a 1.35 ERA in three starts after coming to the South Side of Chicago in 2009, exhibiting the impressive sort of movement on his pitches needed to survive at hitter-friendly U.S. Cellular Field. Remember, Peavy found this limited excellence with far less than 100 percent arm strength due to a strained tendon in his right ankle and taking a line drive off of his pitching elbow during a Minor League rehab effort limiting him to a career-low 16 starts. Buehrle explained how part of his excitement was derived from Peavy already planning at the end of last year the amount of starts and victories this rotation will need for 2010 success. Williams, in turn, likes the influence Peavy will have on the younger part of the rotation in Danks, Floyd and even Hudson. "For Danks and Floyd, he's a true No. 1 guy," said Williams of Peavy. "Buehrle is a No. 1 on any given day, but it's hard to emulate what Mark does. Jake pushes the limit of intensity and has a controlled aggression. "Listen, there's a reason why we went out and were as aggressive as we were and gave up good players. We believe in him." Chicago's left-handed ace, Buehrle, stands as the only pitcher in baseball to record at least 10 wins, 30 starts and 200 innings pitched in each of the last nine seasons. Buehrle has one losing record among those nine and one season checking in at .500, leading to a career mark situated 38 games above .500 for a hurler with a fastball in the high 80s on a fast gun. Danks reached 200 innings for the first time in his career in 2009, winning a career-best 13 and finishing with a sub-4.00 ERA for a second consecutive year. Floyd can take no-hit stuff to the mound on any given start, while Garcia as a fifth starter stacks up with the best of them in the most pressurized situations. A 20-game winner or a Cy Young winner might not exist in this group. But much like Buehrle, Garcia, Jon Garland, Jose Contreras, Orlando "El Duque" Hernandez and Brandon McCarthy in 2005, there will be tough, durable competitors giving the White Sox a chance to win more often than not. "Our starters will get you to the back of the bullpen with quite a bit of regularity," Williams said. "We like added pressure and expectations," Danks said. "All of us thrive off of each other and push each other as the team's backbone and solid foundation." Staying healthy will be the key for these pitchers, with injuries to the starting five having the ability to break down even the best of staffs. And by the way, this staff, from top to bottom, is even better with the addition of J.J. Putz to the back end of the bullpen. Just don't try to convince Cooper it's a group already at the top or one with the ability to win a title on its own. "Sure, this is a pretty good staff, but it's all on paper," Cooper said. "It takes defense and timely hitting, more than a good pitching staff, that total combination. If you want to read something that's not conjecture or opinion, then put that down on paper." "If guys do what is expected, don't go above and beyond but sit where you are normally in your career," White Sox reliever Matt Thornton said, "our starting rotation and our bullpen have a chance to be tops in the game."

What if by chance KW moves PK in a surprising trade? Stranger things have happened.

Here are his career stats. I know he will be out of KW´s price range but maybe a 2 year 16-18 million contract? He has also been solid defensively. Hitting Stats: Next Stats >> SEASON TEAM G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG 2004 Atlanta Braves 110 324 45 90 27 1 13 45 158 27 78 0 0 .333 .488 .278 2005 Atlanta Braves 141 451 53 117 28 0 20 78 205 39 87 0 2 .320 .455 .259 2006 Atlanta Braves 149 492 89 140 38 1 32 90 276 55 128 0 2 .354 .561 .285 2007 Pittsburgh Pirates 152 563 71 153 42 0 21 88 258 62 131 1 1 .345 .458 .272 2008 Pittsburgh Pirates 136 492 66 133 32 3 25 85 246 54 122 1 1 .341 .500 .270 2009 Atlanta Braves 57 212 30 69 11 1 12 40 118 28 59 0 0 .401 .557 .325 2009 Boston Red Sox 6 19 2 5 2 0 1 3 10 0 2 0 0 .263 .526 .263 2009 Pittsburgh Pirates 87 324 46 80 25 1 12 40 143 41 81 2 2 .329 .441 .247 Career Totals 838 2877 402 787 205 7 136 469 1414 306 688 4 8 .343 .491 .274 Fielding Stats: SEASON TEAM POS G GS INN TC PO A E DP PB SB CS RF FPCT 2004 Atlanta Braves 1B 98 82 720.0 786 740 41 5 87 9.76 .994 2005 Atlanta Braves 1B 125 117 1019.1 1154 1070 77 7 105 10.13 .994 2006 Atlanta Braves 1B 142 130 1154.1 1219 1117 97 5 109 9.47 .996 2007 Pittsburgh Pirates 1B 151 148 1301.1 1383 1296 81 6 154 9.52 .996 2008 Pittsburgh Pirates 1B 129 128 1135.2 1219 1130 81 8 121 9.60 .993 2009 Atlanta Braves 1B 57 57 515.2 564 520 43 1 61 9.83 .998 2009 Boston Red Sox 1B 4 4 36.0 35 29 6 0 1 8.75 1.000 2009 Pittsburgh Pirates 1B 87 86 756.2 836 776 59 1 86 9.93 .999 Career Totals 793 752 6639.0 7196 6678 485 33 724 9.71 .995 We would have to move PK to DH or platoon Laroche at first and DH. What thinks ye oh White Sox pundits? Am I drinkin koolaid?

Well, with a glaring power bat missing I would think Ozzie has learned for one that a line up is a balance of strengths and weaknesses. I was not advocating we dithc the swing for the fences lineup but a good left handed bat is a perfect balance to everything else we have.

Cubano, who gets Chapman in your opinion?

I am starting to change my opinion towards wondering if KW would in fact break up the solid core of 4 we have to try aone time aggresive attempt to get Agon. It has been mentioned that JDanks is in an interesting situation because he has not committed to an extension to buy out arb and 1 or 2 FA years. I have seen everything from JDanks and Floyd being mentioned mentioned. I still and will continue to believe Agon´s offense/defense is so contract friendly for 2 years. If you make the WS or win the WS the revenue from that experience really give Reinsdorf and KW the flexibility to start looking at 2011 and beyond FA´s. And with Morel now having a bit more upside after the AFL he is a WS top 10 chip or prospect. Dunno something like Hudson/Flowers/Morel a base is as good as any pacake I see out there, even Boston.

Greg, good comment. I am no fan whatsoever of Walker's success at reclamation projects off the scrap heap like Jones. Teahan won't excite me with that bat as long as Walker is mentoring him, that's for sure. Only time will tell as the season goes along.

Yeah, now that I think about it KW does not really need to tell Ozzie to STFU. He brought up Bacon against Ozzie's wishes and bingo look what happened. But for Ozzie to publicly say he like our offense is not good.

Hawks rolling in the 3rd, 3-0. GO HAWKS!!! Hawks rule this season!! :headbang

Mel, just look at the incredible success the Cubs are havin with Soriano's mega-deal!!

Me likey dis thinkin mucho!!! :headbang

Mods, a few references to this link and thread already. If you want to merge go ahead.

OK, this is not blasting Ozzie but he is happy with Jones/Kotsay et. al for the DH committee and thinks we don't need a middle of the order power lefty DH bat. WTF?? And KW may agree with him although he wants to get that bat. Man no way with this. We need that bat, hope KW over rules Ozzie as he did with the Peavy deal. We need more offense IMHO? Get er done Kenny!!! See link and paste below: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...sp&c_id=mlb CHICAGO -- Don't look for general manager Ken Williams to make one extra big splash by adding a full-time designated hitter to the White Sox attack during the next two months. Trading for Juan Pierre on Tuesday put the White Sox 40-man roster at 40, for starters. But even more important than this total is manager Ozzie Guillen believes he has viable in-house candidates to fill the DH spot in Andruw Jones, Mark Kotsay and Jayson Nix. "Ozzie and I have been speaking on that for quite a while, and we spoke on it again today," Williams said. "He would like to sit where we are right now. He likes the idea of having flexibility." That flexibility means not having a designated hitter who solely hits, as the White Sox have gone with for most of the past four years in the form of Jim Thome. Of course, Thome was highly successful on the field and a major clubhouse influence, but Guillen likes the idea of being able to rotate players and using the DH spot for a break without offering a full day off. Paul Konerko could slide into that position on occasion, with Kotsay playing first base. Omar Vizquel could even fill that role, giving the White Sox a little extra speed on a given day. "Absolutely, yes," said Guillen on Tuesday, when asked if he liked the rotating-DH possibility. "And I don't want to hear people say we don't have a power hitter, that we need a guy who hits 40 homers or that Kenny and myself need to find a real DH. I'm excited with what we have." What the White Sox have is enough power in the lineup to take advantage of hitter-friendly U.S. Cellular Field. What the White Sox have is one of the best pitching staffs in the American League. And what the White Sox have is enough versatility and talent to let Guillen's managerial creativity flow during the course of a 162-game season. All of this potential can lead to success without Williams making that one more move he frequently talks about. "I've given him some names, and this is a very critical last thing on our list," Williams said. "But I don't want to do anything that conflicts with what my manager wants. "Regardless if I think there might be a need for another left-handed bat in middle of the lineup, he's the one in there, and I fully support how he sees the situation fitting and piecing it together. We'll continue to think about it. We have time, but not a whole lot, before we set a course of action." Thoughts??

MLBTR has a link to an LA newspaper that the 2 prospects will be Players to be named later (PTBNL). I always wonder if this increases the value of the trade as you can see what you are getting for JP now but the Dodgres have to wait to get their return. Interesting. Twittr link (Not much really) - http://twitter.com/dylanohernandez/status/6700473998