chisoxfan09

I gotta believe somewhere in all this mess KW made a qualified offer for Halladay (On his terms obviously) based on the same prospects we offered for Peavy and a little more maybe. But there has been no mention of the Sox making any substantial offers ad that is the confusing part. I tend to think our offer is on par or a little less than what the Angels or Hpillies will ultimately offer. Who knows though.

I think it would take one of either Danks or Floyd as the centerpiece to get the Dbacks to even listen. And then they would probably demand both Richard and Poreda.

Maggs, this is Ozzie's boneheaded view just like putting or sticking with Wise in Cf over BA. No sense or logic can be beat into his brick head when he thinks he is right even when all the evidence flatly supports the counter argument.

No TBH no. I really don't think the Dbacks are going to even listen to offers. It would cost more than Halladay as you say probably.

My spidey sense tells me Haren would be a great pickup but not to mortgage the farm. :-)

I am happy if KW is exploring other options. To be honest now I would rate Haren as a better pitcher to Halladay in terms of longevity and financial sense. As a pitcher as well. But there are many who would disagree.

I have bashed Harden a few times but he threw a gem for 6 innings today and could have gone 7 easily. He is a FA after this season. Any additional thoughts on top of all the No's I have received so far? If he rocks in Aug/Sep and goes say 8-2 or 7-3 with his good stuff he will be in demand.

Yup have to agree 100% here. IN fact with Haren and Buerhle pitching good years from now until 2011 you are almost guaranteed 35-40 wins a season which in the weal AL Central is about 40% of the wins you need to win the division. It is definitely an awesome 1-2 punch and the rest can be filled in by Danks and then whoever for 4-5. Having 2 Aces makes the backend argument more digestable. If Danks keeps strong he is gonna give you 15-17 wins a year so the count goes up to 50-55 that should be in the W column. Just babbling on my part but you have some interesting youngsters who will be ready IMO for a September callup next year. Poreda and Huddi should get a great look when they finish AA/AAA next year.

JPN, just read through his interview again and he says he induces a lot of ground balls. Have you seen a heavy sink on the fastball? I will look at the stats from AA and see whst the ratio of GB/fly balls is. Cya

It looks like he is not a power pitcher but decent enough life and movement on the fastball to be very effective. I am thinking if he does well he will be at Charloote for sure next year and maybe a mid year call up.

Guess what? Viciedo picked up another error (23 for the season). He is butchering 3rd base and is definitely not the answer there long term. Outfield, 1st base, or DH maybe?

Yeah the other funny part (reallly funny) is that Ricciardi or Retarded is sending his demands first to some of these clubs before they even offer him a list of prospects. I was just gonna post maybe KW will try one more time to send an offer but I would rather take my chances with what we have and look elsewhere for another starter. I am starting to look at 2009 as a wash and we need to build the team for next year.

JPN, how is Viciedo looking as far as a fitness stand point? Is he in shape, hustling, and overall working hard? There have been doubts about his work ethic.

If he is a type A they get 2 picks but that is all. Plus his arm is sure gonna have a ton more mileage on it. He doesn't Mark Buerhle's rubber arm that will last another 10 years.

Not much to this but there are a couple of links on MLBTR that the White Sox are minor players on the outside. Not aggresive. Seems Phili rejected an offer that Toronto had put on the table wanting both Happ and Drabek as the center pieces of a package. If he is not traded his value goes way down at the Winter meetings as Halliday is adamant on testing Free Agency. Still no thanks but I never underestimate KW.

JPN, do you think the friendly hitters park in Charlotte will benefit Viciedo more than BHam? I tend to think so but there is no graphical tool in MILB.COM that shows to what fields he is hitting the ball to. With Beckham I got a chart that showed he was spraying the ball all over the place once he got to the bigs and especially at the Cell which is a hitter's park but not so sure with Viciedo. Do you think AAA will be a good promotion for him next year?

HOw is he getting most of his whiffs? He gets ahead in the count and then puts them away with the slider/curve or brings heat on most of the K's?

It seems all of you guys are saying it is more a matter of the hitting and not the pitching? But the defense woes have also hurt us. I try to understand the errors at SS/3rd with both Slayer and Alexei playing out of position but the pitching is what concerns me most. Yeah the hitting is also very problematic. Just not consistent enough then to put a real finger on it?

I have read three scouting reports on his stuff and upside and am confused. One says his slider is definitely his number pitch with a nasty bite against right handers and the other two say his curve is better? He is definitely mowing down AA batters (5-0 with very low WHIP) so I think maybe AAA by the end of the year. Maybe not but an ST invite is possible for next year. What are your thoughts JPN?

Did not see your quote/post but AMEN brother. I jus repeated most of this in a new thread. The starting rotation seriously needs a number 1/2 right now. If not no way we compete this year.

Not on the ledge ready to jump but I can't for the life of me see us going into September relying on Contreras/Colon to be the 4/5 starter and win the division, just ain't gonna happen. If Richard gets back on track I agree he could be a suitable number 5. So unless KW pulls a rabbit out of the hat in the coming week before the deadline I think our upcoming schedule is gonna break us instead of make us. JR has gotta let KW spend some money and go after a proven number 1/2 after the season or at the winter meetings if we do not pick up another frontline starter. I don't see us at all in the Halladay sweepstakes anymore and agree we just don't have the prospects to do it. But I think everyone will agree the scrap heap experiment with Colon/Contreras has passed and it is time for manegement to really address this. If they don't then it will go down as a rebuilding year for me and one where they were not serious about contending. Buerhle/Danks/Floyd are a good 1-2-3 but they cannot do it alone (Just wish Ozzie/KW would come out and say it if it is true). The holes in center and potentially 3rd base are another thread all together. I won't mind getting flamed at all but I have been wanting KW to do something about this all year (I am even wondering if Sweaty Freddie could be an option). Let's just hope he listens to all of us and surprises us with an under the radar deal to strengthen at least the number 4 slot. Otherwise it ain't lookin good no matter how many brilliant perfect games Buerhle pitches. And there is no way we pick up the Wild Card this year. Teams are just too strong in the AL East and West. Thoughts??

Yeah, I am calm now. Like you said just frustrated when you see the promise of some of the young kids but you can't fit a round Becks 2nd base peg into a square 3rd base hole. Don't work. Also for as much as Ozzie wants to say Ramirez is destined to be a great SS or Becks can do the job at 3rd maybe after this year they will relize not to move people out of position. Dunno. I really like Becks/Ramirez/Getz hitting together because they can be good catalysts but defensively they are challenged. Let's hope they address this in the off season.

I gotta take a chill pill on these rants. But man that 6-8 week streak where they got shut out by nobodies was God awful. I was ready to throw the towel in. Much better since then but days like today rewind the clock back for me to that terrible streak.

Dude, it wouldn't be so bad if they just f'in tried. That is what makes this season so painful. Remember the 9-10 shutouts? Who the heck wants to go throgh that again. Man I swear sometimes I just can't figure them out offensively. And I have not even started on that terrible bonehead lapse they have on defense every other day.Whoa not worth gettig upset about but it can't be the same team that just taught the defending AL champs a lesson in fundamentals!!!!!!!!! Where the heck did they go? Becks is a rookie and you have to allow for that but the rest, dunno!!!

I dunno what to attribute this kind of season to, so typical after a huge awesome day the next is just terrible outright horrible play. I know I know I know this is a learning season but man this Jekyll and Hyde syndrome has got to stop. It is driving all of us insane. How can it literally be that the team played their hearts out for Buerhle yesterday and today as flat as an F'in pancake. Downright terrible. I really hate to bring on the doom and gloom but this has the makings of another tailspin again if they don't snap out of it. 3 errors at this stage of the season is simply inexcusable. Man this just has to stop!! And then no hitting again again again. I just go nuts when they don't seem motivated. This really worse than a 100 loss team. On these kind of days they don't even try. Failure ok but not willing to try is unacceptable. Sorry for the rant all I am just really tired of all the bad play!! Really sick of it.