Jerksticks

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 15, 2010 -> 04:37 PM) Haha, sorry - I didn't mean a straight-up deal. I meant to say Quentin+. Can't we just sign Cliff Lee for 2-3 years? Man, that would sure solve every problem with these trade ideas.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Oct 15, 2010 -> 02:39 PM) No youre not reading correctly. You have parsed out very important points: Hudson was unproven, you had no idea what Hudson would bring for the rest of the season. Jackson was far more proven, furthermore Jackson had far more talent. Some times you have to trade a young unproven cheap talent for an expensive more proven more talented player. You are acing like Hudson has more talent than Jackson. Jackson is the more talented player, Jackson is the more proven player. Generally more talent + more proven = more expensive. The only thing Hudson had going for him was being cheap, and Im sorry but keeping Hudson just because he was cheap is not a good plan if you are trying to win this year. You never know what is going to happen in the future, so you try and give your team the best shot when they have one. JR said on The Club that this deal was "a no-brainer". Those are powerful words and your points seem to back up Jerry's line of thinking; mine as well. I'm so much happier having Jackson for 2011 than Hudson. He's got ace-stuff; he's probably our best pitcher, and I always thought Hudson would have at least a year of growing pains in our park, and in the AL. Do you people that hate the trade think Hudson would have put up those AZ numbers here? Color me curious. It's too bad for you guys that Peavy didn't get hurt earlier so we could have evaluated Huddy a bit more.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 15, 2010 -> 09:59 AM) Couple problems with that. First of all, Quentin hasn't gotten to 30/100 since 2008, and he's never gotten more than exactly 100 RBI in a season, so there's certainly no guarantee that he'll get there next year. Second...There are a lot of guys who have come up who might well argue with that number while still being pre-arb. Mike Stanton. Carlos Santana. Buster Posey. Jason Heyward. Then you can start adding names who if they have a really good year could get there. Jay Bruce (Super 2). Chris Carter. Pedro Alvarez. Justin Smoak. Hell, Gordon Beckham could go crazy and do it. I like your list except for Smoak but I get your point. So how can we make a list of all the guys likely to hit around 30 HRs and their projected salaries for 2011? Maybe there's 1-2 guys on each team. Would it be generous to say 60 guys in the league have that potential next year? I feel it may be far less thus increasing Quentin's value (especially for the price). I just fail to see how Quentin is just a replacement-level player when so many defensive butchers have high salaries. I think it might have something to do with power and RBI potential outweighing defense. Edit: I'm not saying I like Quentin's defense; I hate it.

Is it safe to say Quentin will be the cheapest 30 HR 100 RBI guy in the league next year? No longer Votto, he's gonna make a ton of cash.

I too dislike Juan overall for some unknown reason. He did do what Juan Pierre does, so kudos. On his behalf I will say that he wore out pitchers probably more than anybody. How did he rank in pitches/AB? Fouled off pitches? Seems like he might be near the top of the league there; haha or sadly, maybe just the top of the Sox.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Oct 13, 2010 -> 06:25 PM) He's one of the worst right fielders in baseball. That makes him replacement value. It doesn't matter. People want Dunn's horrible defense and high strikeout totals at one of the more important positions. Manny played left field forever. I'm not arguing that Carlos is HOF worthy but a guy who can hit 40 HRs and drive in 100 can find a place to play. Carlos has the potential to do that every year, you can't argue that. Whether he can do that or not is the gamble that GMs might want to take, defense aside. There are plenty of butchers at plenty of positions on every team. It's part of the game. We harp on AJs horrible defense but yet he's had a job here for 6 years because of "intangibles". Carlos has tangibles. We trotted Carlos Lee out there for years. Isn't Ryan Braun a butcher? Ethier...butcher.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 13, 2010 -> 06:13 PM) The Swisher trade to acquire him, I agree. The one to get rid of him, well, there wasn't a lot else that could be done. Allen for Pena, not so sure yet, let's see how Allen does. Javy trade we got Flowers, our probable catcher of the future, so I'm not nearly ready to see that as a loss just yet. He's made some bad moves, but a lot more good than bad. The problem with the front office of the Sox under KW, again, is the prospect development end. He's been far weaker there than with the major league moves. I agree with your post except the bolded part. I think we are starting to see the fruits of better development. The problem is that we are not afforded the patience that other clubs might have because our pitching is built to WIN NOW. I think out of Morel, Beckham, Viciedo, Sale and Flowers we may have some really good players. I wish we could sit back and watch them develop without the constant pressure of lofty expectations. A side opinion of mine is that Tank needs to be playing in the big leagues for good, I just don't know where.

QUOTE (sircaffey @ Oct 13, 2010 -> 05:09 PM) Beckham + a lot. We'd get outbid if Votto was on the market. I agree. Beckham is too much of a mystery for them to give up Votto. I still think Danks and a nice piece gets him. I suggested Quentin might be interesting to them because they don't have much next to Stubbs n Bruce. Quentin would be a huge upgrade over Nix's brother and Johnny Gomes. They'd be getting over 20 mil off the books with Harang and Votto going. Adding whatever Danks Quentin are going to get, I dunno 16 mil total or something? Stubbs n Bruce are cheap and that oufield might hit 90 HRs. If Alonso is good, how are the Reds losing here? I just think with Alonso behind Votto they might actually listen to offers if it helps their pitching.

Exactly. People are forgetting about the log-jam at 1B they have. I don't think Votto is as untradeable as ya'll are making him out to be. They need pitching. Despite all of Quentin's issues this year he did put up 26/87/.342. That .342 is pretty remarkable to me considering the season he had. Replacement level my ass. He's got horseloads of value based on results AND potential still. Ok, so say the Reds wanted to cash in on Votto's year, you think they'd rather want unproven Beckham over Danks/Quentin? They would want somebody to mash in Votto's place; that ain't Beckham. The Reds have to trade somebody to get pitching. Alonso doesn't get you near top flight pitching. Votto gets you anything. So does Danks/Quentin I feel. This won't happen, I realize this, but this is the type of player we should be targeting with a Danks-based package.

QUOTE (joeynach @ Oct 13, 2010 -> 02:48 PM) Plus why would u trade significant internal talent for a 1 year of Agon before he hits FA and signs a massive contract. I agree I think. Danks should be used to get a younger bat. How much is Danks really worth? I think it depends on if GMs think he can get even better. Right now I'd say he's at the top of the 2nd tier of pitching, just behind aces. For the teams that miss out on Cliff Lee, Danks is a real nice consolation prize. Every team would love a Danks. We can't screw this trade up if we make it.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Oct 13, 2010 -> 02:03 PM) If Cliff Lee isn't pitching for the Yankees next year I will be shocked. What if Cliff Lee beats the s*** outa the Yankees this week? Twice. Still?

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 13, 2010 -> 01:38 PM) You just made the playoffs for the first time in 15 years, and just your 2nd winning record since then. Your team is full of young talented players who are showing their potential. Do you really think trading your 26-year old MVP is the right move to make, not only for your team or for your fans?? Come on. That article discusses whether or not sign him to a long-term deal now or later, not whether or not to trade him. /thread Duh to the bold....obviously. I think people undervalue Danks and Quentin. Those two as a package can fetch us darn near anything, IMO. Or maybe I overvalue them- just don't think so. Oh no the thread's gonna fail. My pride...shattered. GMAFB

http://www.foxsportsohio.com/10/12/10/Reds...amp;feedID=3717 Fox Sports Ohio is suggesting the Reds might be in some kind of financial pickle with Votto heading to arbitration for the first time. I don't see it being an issue at all for them considering he's the MVP favorite. But for our sake we can hypothesize. They need to upgrade their SP, and with Harang likely going, they will have some cash and an open SP spot. Instead of spending money solely to lock up Votto, perhaps they'd like to spend that cash on Danks and Quentin. They upgrade their one deficient outfield spot and the other dominant starter they sorely needed this postseason. If you are the Reds GM, does this make them better? I think so. DH Tank? I like it if only because it shakes us up a bit in the middle. I love Paulie but maybe we need a new look. Makes us awesome...then we just go sign Cliff Lee for 2 expensive years, lose our pick and call it an offseason.

I guess it's all just emotional, fan-drivel. I actually got it in my head for a while that one of KW or OG had to go and I hated that. I'm embarrassed I let all this fan speculation actually hold weight in my mind for a bit. I can't believe I was immature enough to think Oz or KW had to go. Now I know why it was so hard to pick a side; it was a total BS thought from the beginning. For sure. I ask the front office for forgiveness for even reading such lunacy.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Oct 7, 2010 -> 05:08 PM) Again, I don't care what the Twins do in the playoffs. And I never said I wanted to emulate them. I've said repeatedly that the Phillies are the team I want to emulate because they're outstanding and I feel getting to their level is realistic, unlike the Yankees because they play by a totally different set of rules. Well we need some better hitters to come out of our system. Watching these playoff games, it seems like most of the hitters on these teams are tough outs. We don't have many tough outs. Juan Pierre should teach all our young guys how to foul off pitches instead of popping them up. He is able to wait for HIS pitch more than anybody. He's the only guy on our team that really sets up pitchers.

QUOTE (Swingandalongonetoleft @ Oct 6, 2010 -> 10:58 AM) So sad to learn that Jessica Alba has herpes. She's in my top 3. A few questions arise now...Would you still? Would you jump into that herpe patch anyway, consequences aside? And if so, would you treat your Jeter Herpes like a signed baseball? Would you show them off to everybody...."yea picked these up from Jessica Alba. They came from Jeter so yea they're pretty rare, collectible. Check these babies out."

I really think Danks is the one to trade. He's lefty, about to become expensive and we have Sale waiting behind him. I think he has way more value than Floyd simply by being lefty and good. Lefty starting pitching is our area of excess. If Kemp is the one you're after, I think Danks for Kemp straight up is pretty close.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 1, 2010 -> 03:00 PM) One article alone doesn't prove anything...but the talk has been out there for so long...you can google if you really want more. The Yankees are going to make him a big money offer. Whether he takes it or not is going to be up to him. Has Crawford ever said anything about loving Chicago or Ozzie or anything? That would be cool.

QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Sep 28, 2010 -> 03:45 PM) Konerko is going to get 3 years, and I sincerely hope it's NOT the Sox that give it to him, despite him being a great player for us. We will be moaning about that contract in 2012 and 2013. His defense is ridiculously good. Do you think he is going to break down suddenly? I don't see him as a much of a liability. He's one of the best.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Sep 23, 2010 -> 03:46 PM) I don't know why I'm even bothering since you clearly have no clue what you are talking about but what made Ozzie not a terrible hitter? He didn't hit for average. He didn't walk. He had no power whatsoever. He played shortstop. How many good shortstops were there in the AL then? I honestly don't know how his stats ranked among shortstops. What I do know is that people generally liked him. I remember growing up and people were super excited about Ozzie Guillen's Restaurant that was supposed to open in Orland Park. For years it was rumored to be opening but never did. On a somewhat similar note, did anybody ever eat at the Charley Horse (I think it's Sam McGuires now) in Orland Park? You could order the Carlton Fisk n Chips.

I caught CTL the other day and they were saying that about 15 teams are going to be looking for managers this offseason. We shouldn't throw our hat in that jungle. We have a really good team next year, for the most part, and I want the players focused on 1 thing only. I say let this managerial musical chair dust settle and reevaluate the situation after next season. We just need a few upgrades to the lineup. I too feel like there is a lot of emotion behind many opinions here; that's never the time to make decisions.

So if the pitching staff and next year's new offensive pieces lead us to a title in 2011, do you still want Ozzie gone? Would we have won despite Ozzie?

QUOTE (sin city sox fan @ Sep 22, 2010 -> 05:18 PM) Agreed. If we are to bounce back and contend in 2011, Bobby is going to have to be a force next season. I feel like we are approaching Kerry Wood status with Bobby now; we know the talent is there, but how many times do we want to get burned by his random injuries?

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Sep 22, 2010 -> 03:10 PM) You know, Paul Konerko - the Sox future DH and backup 1B to Albert Pujols - that Paul Konerko. Seriously, I never heard that Pujols said wherever Larussa goes he goes. And although I was never a big Tony Larussa fan, if that quote from Pujols is true I hope the Sox hire Larussa early next month. If this is true then I'd like to amend each of my stated opinions concerning the hiring of LaRussa. Drink n Drive, run over kids, I don't care. Pujols is my price to sell off integrity.

QUOTE (JPN366 @ Sep 22, 2010 -> 01:18 PM) I just want to see KW Jr. out of the organization. Haha, couldn't agree more. Clearly his roster spot has had a domino effect never seen in these waters.