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Wait, if they want a SP, C, 2B, and CF, then we have that package in our own system. I hate giving up D2, but I'd much rather keep Paulie.

QUOTE (JorgeFabregas @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 04:39 PM) He's indicated that he doesn't want to come off the bench. Is there a team that he could start for? The Springfield Armor

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 04:16 PM) Meh. It's 83 innings. Andrew Bailey pitched 83 innings as the closer on a last f***ing place team. Talk about pressure! Porcello pitched 170 innings for a team that made it to a one-game playoff. Beckham played 927 innings out of position and was the most-respected among players. I think Beckham was the most deserving, since he did the most in the least amount of time. I figured Andrus would get it, and I really didn't think he was deserving (don't know why, just did)

I guess I'm the one person in Soxdom that despises giving up Paulie. Seriously, is there anything that the Angels can toss in that we can't match from our own system? Plus, Paulie would be a darn good DH, since he'd stay healthy, I could see him hitting .280, 30 HR, 100 RBI's easy as a full time DH. If theres anyway to cut out the Angels, do it Kenny. Keep Paulie. (Note: Bias coming from fact I'm wearing my Paulie shirt)

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 03:06 PM) Screw the ROY. Beckham has bigger awards ahead of him. Pretty much. At least a pretty deserving guy got it.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 15, 2009 -> 12:49 PM) LOL. That's probably how Kenny marketed him. Kenny: "We've got his guy named Adam Russell, and he's tall..." Towers: "Sold!" Seriously, when the trade happened someone said "How'd we convince them to take Adam Russell" My response: "Because, they win the NL West Pickup Basketball crown every year"

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 15, 2009 -> 06:40 PM) Keith Law had Beckham at #5. I'm fairly certain if Albert Pujols was traded to the Sox, Law would come to the conclusion he was terrible. KW must have pissed him off somehow. You could take the all the players from the All-Star teams and give them Sox hates, and Law would declare they suck.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 15, 2009 -> 12:02 PM) Winning is important to the longterm success of most organizations in baseball, and it's also fun for the fans. Some deals make more sense than others, you have to weigh risk vs. potential reward. How is this being ignored? Unproven prospects have more value now IMO than they had in the past. Look at some of the outrageous bonuses that foreign players are receiving in international free agency. I have no idea how much MLB in general spends on scouting, signing, and developing prospects, but it's a lot. If you're specifically talking about the Sox, look at all Kenny's trades, and how many good players did we end up giving away? Very few. It's easier to produce some very good players when you put that money into the farm and those teams have done that quite a bit. The Red Sox, Yankees, and Dodgers have all traded prospects who have become stars in recent history, and they've all been burned by prospects not turning out as well. MacDougal was a smart move at the time. He had a terrific arm, was healthy at the moment, and we needed help in the bullpen. We were coming off a World Championship and wanted to get back to the postseason. His contract wasn't really bad at all by comparison. It sucked that we wasted money, but MacDougal was nowhere near the Linebrink stratosphere in terms of dollars. So far the prospects we gave up haven't done anything either. Linebrink was the result of the 2007 bullpen (and season as a whole) plus the relief market at the time. There are tons of other examples of overpaid relievers who got contracts between the 2004-2007 or so period. The Sox happened to be one of those teams, and unfortunately they gave Linebrink 4 years. But I wouldn't say they overpaid by much if at all because he was one of the top setup guys on that year's market, maybe even the top guy. There is an enormous difference beween Crawford and Gonzalez. Crawford makes $10M in 2010 and then hits FA. Plus he's a LF who we'd only want for defense and lead-off capabilities, which IMO is way too much of our flexibility. I would argue Crawford as a very nice additional player, but he's not a franchise bat like Gonzalez. Gonzalez makes $10.25M over 2 years, not one, and then hits FA. He OTOH fills our biggest offensive need (bit lefty bat, OPS, big power) while being cost-effective. IMO Gonzalez would be an acquisition with a 2010-2011 World Series Championship in mind, Crawford an acquisition with the 2010 Division Championship in mind. Major difference. I'd do Gonzalez, but not Crawford. We didn't pay anything to get Rios, and Rios in CF at his career numbers is at least a market-level deal, and a much better contract than Rowand, Hunter, Fukudome, GMJ, etc. We underpaid for Peavy also. The only reason he came so cheap was because of his salary, the Padres desperation to move him, and his NTC. I can't think of another player in recent history who was that good and acquired that cheaply. In terms of prospects, the Sox gave up quite a bit more to get Freddy Garcia for half of a year than they gave up for like 3.5 years or whatever of Peavy. Also, the bullpen comment... we have talent in the pen. Bullpens are hard to predict, but with a better rotation eating innings they should see a lot less work, and they'll have a chance to be better. I didn't like the Pena deal, and I still don't, but Pena does have some serious talent. Same with Linebrink. And we've got quite a few in-house candidates with MLB arms in there as well, plus Thornton is a beast and Jenks, prior to 2009, had been the same. Our bullpen in 2010 could be a strength for all we know. Um, not really. Quentin, Alexei, Floyd, and Danks were all developed outside of the organization. Beckham didn't even spend a full year in the minors, and in fact, for a while there he looked like he was going to make the team out of Spring Training as a 2B last year. The key is having the pieces in farm to make moves with, then doing the scouting and making sure that the young players you bring into the picture - no matter what organization they came from - are going to be good bets to succeed. BTW, this "buying expensive pieces off the shelf" thing doesn't apply to the Sox hardly at all. They are rarely significant players in FA and they make a lot of their deals for proven players while getting cash back (Teahen, Thome, Cabrera, Contreras, etc.). The Sox have been mostly a reclamation project/buy low team for a while now with a few exceptions. Gotta agree that we way underpaid for Peavy, considering we sent them a A-Ball K machine, who went from being a possible closer guy to nothing after the trade, a number 3 starter at best, a guy who could be a number 4 starter or good lefty BP arm, and a tall guy.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 14, 2009 -> 07:15 AM) Why would Carlos Torres have value? He is 27 years old, occassionally has a very hard time throwing strikes, doesn't throw very hard, and has a MLB ERA over 6.00. He could be used as filler in a trade, but no team would give you anything worthwhile, especially when it really isn't a salary dump with Mr. Torres being the main prize coming back. I sell that AAA Perfect game to death. Oh, also, I hire Robbie Gould as Alex Rios' personal motivator. And by that, I mean, every time Rios K's with people on, he gets a swift kick to the...you can finish that.

If I'm Kenny I call up Jed Hoyer and offer Flowers/Hudson/Viciedo/Retherford/Link for AGon, as a base. Then I add to the trade by throwing in Torres/PTBNL (Mitchell, when we can) for Bell. Finally, I toss in Hynick for Poreda (think Gio Gonzalez, where we reacquire a prospect). Then I resign Pods for left field. Sign Olivo for backup catcher. Lineup: LF - Pods SS - Ramirez 2B - Beckham 1B - Gonzalez RF - Quentin DH - Konerko C - AJ CF - Rios 3B - Teahen That lineup has really good potential if people can just get over last years issues. Rotation stays the same (Buehrle, Peavy, Danks, Floyd, Garcia) Bullpen looks like: CL - Jenks SU - Bell SU - Thornton MR - Linebrink MR - Nunez LR/MR - Poreda LR - Carrasco Bench: 1B/OF - Kotsay OF - De Aza C - Olivo 2B/SS/3B - Nix

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Nov 13, 2009 -> 09:36 PM) We are in a very good spot IMO on Dotel. Worst or Best (different view for some posters) case scenario, he accepts and he's another good veteran arm in the pen. Or.. he can decline it and we'd have a sup. pick comming to us. IMO personally... it's a win-win. The spect lover in me though hopes he declines, but I could definitely see Dotel accepting if he really likes the guys and the overall team here. I still like Dotel with us in the pen alot. You sir, summed up my feelings on Dotel.

At least Nunez looks to be shaping up well. We'll miss you Betemit. You warmed up Slayers number for us.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 10:34 PM) Then again I wonder why the Padres would give up someone like that. Fill a ton of holes with their biggest chip. They could fill possibly five holes in their big league club.

My one untouchable prospect is D2, solely for dumping Boras and his brother, and cause he'll be good. If I can throw in Mitchell as a PTBNL, I do it. 4-5 prospects is what I offer. 6 if they toss in Poreda. 7-8 prospects if they throw in Bell and Poreda.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 12:09 AM) A showdown? lol. I'll be surprised if we don't lose by at least 15. A showdown would be the Spurs and Lakers. Dbaho, why did Dwight Howard only take 3 shots last night? We beat the Spurs, thus, a showdown. In my mind at least.

Definitely crapped that game away, though we have 2 games coming up against Sac and Philly that we should win before a showdown with the Lakers.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 11, 2009 -> 10:49 PM) Hynick??? Counting on him for anything but garbage innnings in the majors would be crazy at this point. Wouldn't expect him to carry a major load in the majors, but instead be a spot-starter and last BP resort.

QUOTE (Markbilliards @ Nov 11, 2009 -> 10:28 PM) If the Sox were at the point where they were allowed to be offering Mitchell and they also gave up the other five guys you named, there will be no other deal out there that would come close to that. However that's too much for Kenny in my opinion. If we could, I'd ask for Poreda back (See: Gonzalez, Gio) to help with the lefty situation in the pen. Plus, then we'd have: Poreda Hynick D2 Phegley While the farm would take a huge blow, those four could help it recover.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 11, 2009 -> 10:25 PM) IIRC you can't PTBNL Mitchell until Mid-December at the earliest. Dang it. For some reason, I feel he's more enticing then D2, and that they'd love him. Darn this no trading picks till one year later thing.

So lets say it becomes a Sox Duel, the White variety could offer: Hudson Torres Flowers Viciedo Retherford PTBNL (Mitchell) The Pads fill their holes at 2nd, Catcher, 2 pitching spots, a first basemen (fill AGon void), and CF. The reason Mitchell is PTBNL is because I really, really, don't want to give up D2. Red could offer: Bucholz Bard and I have no idea who else is in there system

QUOTE (buckweaver @ Nov 11, 2009 -> 05:09 PM) A brush with Granderson story to share: When he was a AAA player in the Detroit system, he was an instructor for a kids' winter baseball camp in Libertyville; my son attended. Not only was he a terrific teacher, but a great role model. He wore his Tigers uniform, stayed late to talk with the kids and signed autographs for all who asked. We've continued to follow his career since then and have delighted in his success (except against the Sox). I don't see how the Sox could pull of a deal for him, but what an addition he'd be. I just found out recently my brother played on the same field as him in HS, since Granderson's high school is in the same conference as mine. That aside, I'd love to get Granderson.

Noah being left off the All-Star ballot is kinda ridiculous. Anyway, heres an ESPN sponsored blog about why Noah is the 3rd best center in the NBA so far this year. http://bullsbythehorns.com/?p=1324

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 11, 2009 -> 09:41 AM) "s*** storm" to me is them making a big deal out of it because it was such an obvious mistake. The majority of their coverage had to do with the Cavs losing a 2nd game at home 2 weeks into the season (when it took them the entire season to lose 2 last year), not what an awful call it was. I just remember interviews about why he felt cheated on the call, Mike Brown saying the rules need to be re-read, etc. Hence, if he made THAT shot and it was overturned, media goes crazy. Also, the rules state it to be .1 seconds left for there to be no shot, we had triple the time.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Nov 11, 2009 -> 12:29 AM) Tough break for the Bulls tonight, I wonder if it was more a superstar player than Brad Miller if they would have gotten the call then. God knows if it was LeBron, there'd probably be a whole ESPN Sportscenter newshour dedicated to it or something. I imagine LeBron not getting the call and the epic ****storm that would result.

My friend and are arguing over this, since he said that we'd have no arms left in the system, and then he proposed this: Try to get Poreda as a throw in in the deal, since he didn't uber-suck here. I don't think Pads would do it, but who knows?