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QUOTE (HeGone7 @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 12:48 PM) This is the stuff that drives me nuts. You're 100% correct that those two, in particular, suck. But your comment/opinion is so far off-base. If the Sox are selling, you're acquiring "Elite prospects" in my eyes. Guys who are top 10, 20, 30 and in some cases 40 overall in baseball. But something about them is ELITE. Most of them would come from Sale and Q deals, I pray somehow they can max out value on Frazier, Robertson, Abreu and Eaton to at least get 1 guy on that level. Those guys being acquired, in most cases, are guys who have proven success in the minors or college and are ready for the show. Their chances of not panning out are still there but far less. The expectation is this guy's floor is still a serviceable mlb player. Their peak are guys like Bryant, Fernandez, etc. That is the goal here. There is a major difference between the guys up at the top of those lists and the guys at the bottom. You'll always have guys who don't pan out, but if you want to build a real contender...The Trouts, Harpers, Strasberg's etc come from the top. That is what you're attacking when you're selling these types of talents. Davidson was never remotely in that realm. I think his highest ranking was mid-70's. Which is a good prospect but it also tells you a lot. When you talk about Davidson and using him as an example for what the Sox should do, you're comparing the chances at acquiring a Machado to acquiring a Zach Cozart. I used Cozart because he actually is playing well, and that's what you hope when you get a guy like him, but it requires far more development. He'll also never be on the same planet as Machado and there is a higher risk of not panning out - like a Davidson. Garcia is in the same boat. Very flawed prospect. Detroit loved him, which is great, but no one else seemingly did. He reminds me of Lyle Mouton. This big guy with hype and couldn't hit the ball out of the park if he hit from 2nd base. I fully expect the Sox to get several of these types of players if they sell. Which isn't a bad thing if they get a handful of elite prospects. Then you aren't relying on those Davidson's to save your farm/franchise. But the core of what you're acquiring needs to be proven commodities on other teams. Prospects who have dominated, not played well/ok and show promise. Not guys with one pitch and nothing else. You're getting guys like Urias who ceiling is an ace and floor appears to be a middle rotation arm. My biggest fear is the Sox go after the wrong talent at the top. The 5 tool guys that have been a staple of Kenny Williams failures. If you do, his biggest strength better be his bat because we struggle developing offense. Guys who hit the ball with regularity, and do it well, and can play good defense. Load up with bats. I don't care if the guy has an 80 for speed or 80 for an arm. I want the guys who can play. My other concern is you get too young of players who we are forced to develop. Too much can go wrong in that timespan. The younger they are, the less sample size you have, the higher the risk. San Diego did the right thing for them. They dealt a guy who never has thrown 100 innings, cost them nothing to acquire, and they went boom or bust on a young highly talented arm. The Sox need to be acquiring that same caliber arm AFTER he has proven himself, developed secondary stuff and is ready to come up. That is the major difference here. Some of those guys will likely come in trades, but they just can't be what you're banking on to resurrect the franchise. But back to the original point, you can't look at the past failures of the Sox acquisitions because most of them were what they could get for what they dealt. We got Avi for Peavy, who was 32, declining and frankly sucked 3 of 4 years here. We got Davidson for Reed, who was a 1 year wonder basically as a closer. This time is a whole different animal. You're selling very good/star players in their primes for several "can't miss" type guys who will be on your roster in 2016 or 2017. Maybe 2018 latest. The middle-tier Davidsons that round out packages hopefully are guys you hope pan out, or they get moved for an MLB player when the time is right. Ok, such as former sure-fire thing Joc Pederson who has crashed and burned since his AS appearance. Or Gordon Beckham, someone that Derek Jeter and Steve Stone would be a multiple MVP award winner and was picked for the 2010s all-decade team, with elite defense and bat speed. I'm not saying don't make the deals, but don't expect them to be surefire successes either.

QUOTE (TheTruth05 @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 12:19 PM) So Hahn took a job where KW would use him as a puppet? Have you ever had a boss before?

QUOTE (bjm676 @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 11:25 AM) This sounds like a good plan to start. My hope is that Q is the only one traded. I'd hate to see him go, like all of us would. Also, no guarantee that Shields is even around next year. He could opt out, especially with how bad the FA market is next year. Then they are creating even more holes in their team. If they keep Sale, then they would have a possible rotation of sale/Rodon/Fulmer/Gonzalez/? If Q is traded, I'd be fine seeing Frazier, Melky, Robertson, Jennings and Duke finding new homes

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 10:58 AM) How in the world do you build a core around those guys before Sale hits free agency in three years? Collins might only need one season in the minors, but even college guys like Call & Fisher will need two. And honestly, there isn't much there after those three except for maybe Engel & Trey M and both are huge wild cards at this point. Honestly, there's no rational argument to hold onto Sale & Quintana at this point. One's a Hall of Fame caliber pitcher and the other is an ace. Maybe it works out, maybe it's a scenario with two King Felixs. But everyone wants to emulate the Cubs - yeah, they traded Samardzjia, but their rotation is big FA signings and a failed prospect suddenly becoming god.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 10:50 AM) I wouldn't be bummed either but if a team offers a huge haul in the next 10 days, I wouldn't be too upset if they dealt either. This is about where I'm at. If we build the next core around Sale, Q, Rodon, Fulmer and Anderson I won't be mad. Maybe Eaton and Abreu stick around. Pray that Hostetler's drafts keep looking positive.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 10:39 AM) We are gonna be so bummed when we trade Melky Cabrera for some 8-10 team prospect. I won't be bummed to keep Sale and Q. Still have the rotation set for four years basically with that. Davidson and Avi should be warnings of "we'll just trade for a Top 100 prospect and they'll plug in automatically."

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 10:20 AM) He has said that a few times. I don't think he's a Republican, just pro-Trump. Yeah, I'm just saying, the speech won't go down for being energetic or anything. But for basically being a eulogy at best, a "this is how liberty dies" Star Wars reference at worst.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 09:41 AM) Jim Bowden ESPN Senior Writer Dodgers have been extremely aggressive pursuing the games best starting pitchers.... available or not...willing to offer huge prospect packages...they appear committed to having a much different approach to this deadline than they did last year when their moves brought in the likes of Mat Latos, Alex Wood, Bronson Arroyo and Jim Johnson among others. This year they're chasing the Archers, Sales, Quintana's and every other top pitcher. They will be a team to watch over next 10 days Urias needs to be headlining a package for Q or Sale. Then a lot more, but Urias for sure.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 02:06 AM) A speech that will go down in history. The energy in that building was insane. It will likely go down in history as the eulogy of the GOP

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 11:56 PM) I agree but wait until he is at least legal drinking age before you declare him bad. He can drink away your criticism then. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 01:49 AM) Yep, ready for a rebuild. \ For real. If we expect a 19-year-old who has been hurt to light the world on fire and are declaring him a bust, a rebuild will suuuuuuck for people.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 06:06 PM) I want Abreu gone ASAP. I think he's older than he says he is and it's obvious that he's already breaking down physically. The Sox need to trade him before he turns into Avisail Garcia Jr. This is such a tired accusation of every Cuban player at this point. Every. Single. One.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 03:12 PM) They did not blow it with Peavy. Aside from Avi they got Frankie Montas (a very legit prospect used to acquire Frazier), JB Wendelken (part of the Lawrie trade) and Cleuluis Rondon (jury's still out on, still young). Not to mention the fact that the money saved from moving Peavy was used to sign Abreu the following offseason. Yup. A Top 100 prospect + two elite tooled fliers (Montas' fastball, Rondon's defense) and a projectable reliever isn't blowing a trade for a rental pitcher.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 02:44 PM) Way we could blow it is the same way we blew it (arguably) with Peavy. We tried to get cute and "rebuild on the fly" and traded for Avi in the 3-way instead of getting legit prospects. ...Avi was a legit prospect. Just because he busted doesn't mean he wasn't legit.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 02:02 PM) Another source says the #WhiteSox were offered a "king's ransom" for Sale in the last 48 hours and responded with a flat "no." I'm intrigued as to what that is.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 01:43 PM) I understood what you were saying, and what I feel is a similar type of overpay is exactly what should be expected for Quintana. Gotcha.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 01:34 PM) Why are we selling ourselves short? Every damn year there are lopsided trades and of course we're never a part of it. Quintana was always the superior pitcher to Shelby Miller, also. If Hahn would have inquired about him with Arizona who knows the result. This is what I fear will happen with Rich Hill. We'll make excuses of course like people did with Miller, but I'd believe yet again Hahn just didnt bother picking up the phone. I've been the biggest Q backer on this site, calm down. It's because the Shelby Miller package was such an overpay, not because Q isn't as good as Miller.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 01:19 PM) Why would Q bring back less than Shelby f***ing Miller? Not only has Q provided 10 wins more over the last 4 years (since they both became full-time starters), but Miller has less control. It would be asinine to accept anything close to that deal. Again, the model for a Q trade is the Cole Hamels trade. 3 top 100 prospects and major league pieces. Anything less is a joke offer. Because the Shelby Miller trade was a significant overpay. Like, that package would have been hard to see a team dealing for Q, but something close would be acceptable.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 01:05 PM) Re: misery. Honestly, it's less painful than now. Year 3 we will be getting antsy. But knowin gthere is a purpose goes a long way. 2013/2014 weren't that bad. I liked seeing the young talent play. The misery is that Q and Sale will be gone, to be honest. Sale's on a HoF track and Q's the type that could pitch for a long time and be an all-time Sox pitcher. It'd just suck.

There are three untouchables in a full scale fire sale. Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer. Sale could bring back an unprecedented haul. Q should bring back something slightly less than the Shelby Miller debacle. Gonzalez and Shields could probably bring in some decent fliers. Abreu's name would probably carry some value. Frazier's average is low, but he's producing runs. Bring some value. Eaton should bring some good value back. Melky should bring a decent prospect in. Robertson/Duke/Jones/Jennings can all bring in a decent prospect. Lawrie might. Just know, everyone here will be in misery for at least 3 years, regardless of return. It's probably the wise move at this point but still. Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer (now in the rotation) and Saladino would be the only watchable parts of it. You'd have to hope that the 2016 draft class are all fast risers to minimize the misery.

Trade both if you trade one. Q for a King's Ransom Sale for an Emperor's Ransom

The Cubs love of Baez is confounding.

QUOTE (The Mighty Mite @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 12:45 PM) I'm really down on Abreu, he's out of shape, can't field and is slower than Konerko. All that plus if he's 28, I'm a monkey's uncle. I'd like to see Frazier at first base, Lawrie at 3rd and Saladino at second. Abreu can DH along with Morneau. He's definitely not slower than Paulie. And you'd play Saladino at 3rd in this case.

Merging this with the exact same thread 5 topics down.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 08:53 AM) You know what would come after nine more wins in a row? A loss. That would bring the Sox to 55-48, with 59 games left, mostly against teams they can't beat. Root for whatever you want because it doesn't matter, but this season is done. This might be the most pessimistic post on this board. "A 10 game win streak would suck."

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 12:54 AM) How do people hate on Shuck? He just goes out, hustles, and plays decent baseball. Because people expect 4th OFs to be All-Stars on this board.